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Old 03-16-2018, 07:51 PM
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Years ago a member of the Irish peerage was a senior detective based at Scotland Yard. He didn't use his title for obvious reasons, and hadn't since joining the police force.

On the other hand a title might be OK if you worked for one of those old, prestigious businesses in the West End, a wine merchants, for example.

However, it certainly made no difference to Zara's equestrian career. And let's not forget that her mother competed in the Olympics, and was a Princess.

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Old 03-16-2018, 07:57 PM
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Numerous people don't use their titles in professional life....

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Old 03-16-2018, 08:08 PM
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Yes, we know. But the question for several posts has been would having a title been a hindrance or help to Zara in her professional career, and I think most have agreed it wouldn't have made any difference. Along the way other people's titles came into it.
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:34 PM
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Having the princess royal and Mark Phillips as parents made the difference. Having or not having a title didn't.
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
No one stopped using their title.
An acquaintance of Rudolph did--

Rudolph wrote "I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago." Message #5

Rosena6 wrote "Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?" Message #6
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:17 PM
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In reality having a title wouldn't have been a hinderance to either child. The children of aristocrats have normal lives every day. Even royal related ones.

Has being the children of the Earl Snowden stopped Sarah and her brother, now the Earl from normal lives? No. Sarah has had success in the art world and her brother in furniture making.

The children of the Duke of Kent? No. Earl of St Andrews managed a career in diplomacy and now non-profit despite his title, and his wife a historian. Helen is an art dealer.

The children for Prince Michael of Kent? No. Freddie works for JPMorgan and Lady Gabriella works as a writer and was studying or her PHD in anthropology.

The children of the Duke of Gloucester? No.Alexander was a career soldier and now works in business. Lady Rose is an art assistant in movies.

There are plenty of non royal aristocrats who hold every day jobs as well as their titles as well.

Zara's life would be no different, and Peter's highly unlikely, if their father had a title. They would still be private citizens who appeared at the rare royal event like Trooping.

Even without a title they are publically known as Anne's kids. There is no escaping that. If their mother hasn't hindered their career, a title wouldn't.
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:11 PM
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Lord Frederick Windsor also had been a model at one time. His title of His Lordship did not compete with him partaking a career.
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Old 08-19-2021, 12:40 AM
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Do you think Peter and Zara have normal, middle class, commoner lives?

They are commoners, Peter is called Master Peter Phillips and Zara is called Mrs. Zara Tindall.....

They don't have maids, or courtiers, they live at Gatcombe, so do you think they see themselves as rich, or middle class commoners?
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Old 08-19-2021, 12:49 AM
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Only they know how they see themselves.
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
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Old 08-19-2021, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
They are commoners, Peter is called Master Peter Phillips and Zara is called Mrs. Zara Tindall.....

They don't have maids, or courtiers, they live at Gatcombe, so do you think they see themselves as rich, or middle class commoners?
"Master" is for young boys. Peter has been "Mister" for decades.
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Old 08-19-2021, 02:24 AM
Serene Highness
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Being rich does not equate to being upper class. The term "impoverished gentry" has been around for centuries - think of, say, the Elliot family in Jane Austen's "Persuasion". Even by the late 17th century, plenty of middle class people who'd made fortunes in trade were richer than some upper class people.

Not being royal does not mean that you're not upper class. There's royalty, then there's aristocracy, then there's gentry. And then there's middle class ... and there are umpteen degrees of middle class! Mark Phillips, son of a brigadier whose father was a royal aide, and who went to a public school and then Sandhurst, is middle class, but someone who owns a small shop might also think of themselves as middle class!

Same everywhere - take Gone With The Wind, where people like the Wilkseses and the Meades are still "ladies and gentlemen" even after losing their money and property in the war.

It's complicated! I'd say that Peter and Zara were upper class. "Rich" doesn't come into it - they could be as poor as church mice and that still wouldn't stop them from being upper class. And, not now, but in the past there were people who'd made a lot of money, had big houses and servants, but were still considered middle class by upper class circles! But who knows how they see themselves? Mark Phillips is upper middle class.
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Old 08-19-2021, 03:01 AM
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Middle class in the UK also covers a wide range of situations and attitudes. Read Jilly Coopers Class (which is a little out of date now but gives the basic idea) or Kate Foxes "Watching the English" for an overview. Mike's family were middle class growing up and I think he and Zara would say they had very different upbringings in many ways.

Peter and Zara might consider themselves in the most "normal" situation of their generation but that doesn't mean they consider themselves "average middle class".

I'd say they were upper class personally. Living at your mother-who's- a-Princess's country estate isn't exactly any definition of middle class whether or not they have servants (or cleaners!) or money that they didn't earn themselves. Not to mention the doors that open because their grandmother is the Queen and they were born in the top 10 of the succession.
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Old 08-19-2021, 07:52 AM
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I really think that they live the normal life of affluent people. But obviously they are not show-off.

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peter phillips, styles and titles, zara phillips

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