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  #261  
Old 04-27-2020, 06:21 AM
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I think at some point it will become easier for Leonor and more difficult for Sofia, Leonor has her defined role, groomed by (from a monarchists' view) the perfect father and the perfect grandmother with their character traits calm and dutiful, I doubt she will be attacked relentlessly like her mother.
Sofia is a different matter, she her path will lead her from royal life to private life while having to find a proper job. She'll have to deal with the spare's life being torn between two worlds.
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  #262  
Old 04-27-2020, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by janelarn View Post
[...] Spain loves its two princesses: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia
That is quite a generalization in a country with such a strong republican, separatist, secessionist and anarchist sentiment. I see lots of Spanish media outlets, the comments sections under it, the posts on Facebook, Instagram and news from WhatsApp groups.

There absolutely is hostility and negativity towards the royals. Sadly the two young, totally innocent Infantas are not excluded to that. Sadly enough. So "Spain loves"... hmmmm... Really?
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  #263  
Old 04-27-2020, 06:40 AM
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That is quite a generalization in a country with such a strong republican, separatist, secessionist and anarchist sentiment. I see lots of Spanish media outlets, the comments sections under it, the posts on Facebook, Instagram and news from WhatsApp groups.

There absolutely is hostility and negativity towards the royals. Sadly the two young, totally innocent Infantas are not excluded to that. Sadly enough. So "Spain loves"... hmmmm... Really?
It depends on where you will read these comments. The Spanish monarchy still has a lot of support, we saw this when the Kings and daughters visited Asturias, or National Day. Even at the opening of the courts the Royal Family was widely applauded.
It's not social media comments that are a real sample of the popularity of an institution like this.
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  #264  
Old 04-27-2020, 07:51 AM
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They are two young princess true, but that is not all they are The Princess of Astauris is the heir to the Spanish throne and that means that they, just like their parents, have to form some sort of relatioship with the people of Spain.

The address they gave was stiff and a little stilted. Had the girls been at ease on that environment they could have smiled at the way their country has pulled together. They could have even wept in empathy, but they were stuck reading a teleprompter. And no! I am not finding fault with the children but I an very disappointed at their lack of experience.

Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret were hardly old hands at being filmed while sending a radio message to their Citizens. I would say it came from role playing in school level plays.

I would love for Leonore and Sophia to introduce themselves to their Citizens. To make the same speech to the country using a teleprompter but in a more natural and comfortable setting in their home.

They have everything going for them, they are educated and articulate, they look like they are best friends and are among the most attractive young Royals out there. Their country needs positive role models and their parents are doing their bit. But allowing the Princesses to do there's is important.

These are unique and terrible times. The youthful generousity of love from the Princesses and maybe a heartfelt vow to pray for their people and their country provides that essential but elusive feeling of Hope. That is in their gift.
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  #265  
Old 04-27-2020, 10:32 AM
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So, a smile. And then a little bit of weaping? Thankfully for all us watching it, there seem to have been a little more brains and professionalism on whoever planned that short video...
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  #266  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by janelarn View Post
Felipe vI and Queen Letizia have worked tirelessly; That has only been done by them, no other king. The royal house has a special communication policy regarding its princesses. But when Leonor and Sofia appear, it has to be with an important message, with a deep and powerful message. It is not enough to go out one day to applaud. Leonor and Sofia do something much more important: they speak to the nation. And really, they are the best. No other prince or princess has the level to do that. Leonor and Sofia yes. But what I don't understand is that two girls are criticized, from my point of view absurd criticism, and as if they were adults. They are girls and they do it perfectly. They are adorable and you will find very few people in Spain who do not find them beautiful, intelligent and divine. Two angels with a precious message. Others just applaud. They get involved. Leonor will be a very well prepared queen and Sofia will be a fundamental support. Spain loves its two princesses: Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia
I'm afraid your own personal preference clouds your judgment.

What is the basis for your claim that "Felipe vI and Queen Letizia have worked tirelessly; That has only been done by them, no other king." Can you share the number of hours spend by Felipe and Letizia AND all other kings and queens, so we can compare?

In addition: others don't 'just applaud'... The adult heirs surely do way more (as is to be expected). The other children in a comparable situation, also do more than 'just clap': the children of the king of Belgium visited care homes and the Dutch princesses are involved in spontaneous conversations with care workers and others via video calls.

So, I don't think it can be claimed that the Spanish royal house does it BETTER than other royal houses. Felipe and Letizia do lots of video calls and have pictures taken for each one of them and organized a very staged speech for their daughters. This fits with how they are raising their daughters: appearing 'perfect' in every way. Other royal houses chose a different approach that might be considered to connect more closely with the people and is less orchestrated as that is what is valued by their parents (and probably country men).

I'd say that all countries with a monarchy are currently happy to have one as it is one of their uniting forces in these trying times.
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  #267  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:17 AM
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I'm afraid your own personal preference clouds your judgment.
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Felipe and Letizia do lots of video calls and have pictures taken for each one of them and organized a very staged speech for their daughters. This fits with how they are raising their daughters: appearing 'perfect' in every way. Other royal houses chose a different approach that might be considered to connect more closely with the people and is less orchestrated as that is what is valued by their parents (and probably country men).
Which is not a judgement based on personal preferences at all
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  #268  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:20 AM
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How many other adult royals have wept whilst addressing their nations? Many have made heartfelt speeches but remained professional and held it together.

If they had cried surely there would be others on here criticising their parents for making them do it or not training them to be more dignified. Or saying came across as staged, attention seeking or something else. I personally thought it was fine and the later reading of Don Quixote was natural and comfortable.

Leonor especially has shown poise and promise in her role as Princess of Asturias and I'm sure she will continue to do. Could they perhaps do more? Of course but the situation is different in each country and with each family, especially with them both being minors I'm not surprised there hasn't been more.
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  #269  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:54 AM
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Both girls were lovely, clean and polished. Well done, and they are just kids / early teens.
On the other side, what is deeply shocking me is that 2 young girls, had to bear alone the whole SRF representation. I would expect the King to at least deliver a message, the Queen to actively support medical efforts, even remotely, but nothing. QEII at 94 years delivered a unique message, similar to war Era and touched her whole country. But the Spanish RF, nothing. King and Queen vanished completely, and let the whole communication responsibility to 2 young girls. Well done girls, you were excellent.
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  #270  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:56 AM
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Which is not a judgement based on personal preferences at all
I agree that I have a personal preference (which surely shines through). But I'm not making claims that the royal family of country X is doing better in all ways than all other countries.

I have for example no clue which monarch works hardest. It seems they all work hard (probably the younger generation doing a bit more than the older generation - but they have the advantage of having adult heirs) and try to do the best they can with the limitations they have based on their countries policies.
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  #271  
Old 04-27-2020, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Both girls were lovely, clean and polished. Well done, and they are just kids / early teens.
On the other side, what is deeply shocking me is that 2 young girls, had to bear alone the whole SRF representation. I would expect the King to at least deliver a message, the Queen to actively support medical efforts, even remotely, but nothing. QEII at 94 years delivered a unique message, similar to war Era and touched her whole country. But the Spanish RF, nothing. King and Queen vanished completely, and let the whole communication responsibility to 2 young girls. Well done girls, you were excellent.
The king and queen are in touch with many organizations all the time (providing pictures of video conferences almost daily). So, I don't agree that they don't offer support.
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  #272  
Old 04-27-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Both girls were lovely, clean and polished. Well done, and they are just kids / early teens.
On the other side, what is deeply shocking me is that 2 young girls, had to bear alone the whole SRF representation. I would expect the King to at least deliver a message, the Queen to actively support medical efforts, even remotely, but nothing. QEII at 94 years delivered a unique message, similar to war Era and touched her whole country. But the Spanish RF, nothing. King and Queen vanished completely, and let the whole communication responsibility to 2 young girls. Well done girls, you were excellent.
What do you mean, King and Queen vanished completely?
I dare to say: from all European monarchies especially Don Felipe and Doña Letizia have been so extremely active. Day after day we have seen them videocalling. We have seen them making visits to support services working so hard in this pandemic. I can not believe you claim the King and Queen vanished completely!

Already on March 19th the King addressed the nation. Really, where does your idea come from the King gave no speech????

https://www.plataformamedia.com/en-u...-11952563.html

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  #273  
Old 04-27-2020, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Both girls were lovely, clean and polished. Well done, and they are just kids / early teens.
On the other side, what is deeply shocking me is that 2 young girls, had to bear alone the whole SRF representation. I would expect the King to at least deliver a message, the Queen to actively support medical efforts, even remotely, but nothing. QEII at 94 years delivered a unique message, similar to war Era and touched her whole country. But the Spanish RF, nothing. King and Queen vanished completely, and let the whole communication responsibility to 2 young girls. Well done girls, you were excellent.
If they are vanished, I don't know where some royals are ...

Every day the king and queen hold conversations with government representatives, hospital managers from all over Spain, representatives of the country's economic and business sectors, with a multitude of social organizations (elderly, young, education, aid to the sick, social minorities, royal patronages).

King Felipe has visited the temporary hospital created for COVID in Madrid, he has visited the police and military who have been on the streets performing security tasks, helping hospitals, disinfecting nursing homes, transferring the deceased ... today king Felipe and Queen Letizia have gone to the 112 Emergency Service in Madrid. On all those occasions they have sent messages to all those groups that are working for others, and have conveyed their condolences for the deceased.

And all this when Queen Letizia has had to keep strict quarantine for 15 days for being in contact with a positive, and they live in Madrid, one of the cities in the world where the impact of COVID has been harder and the confinement laws are stricter. .
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  #274  
Old 04-27-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
Which is not a judgement based on personal preferences at all
: flores:: flores:: flores:: flores:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think at some point it will become easier for Leonor and more difficult for Sofia, Leonor has her defined role, groomed by (from a monarchists' view) the perfect father and the perfect grandmother with their character traits calm and dutiful, I doubt she will be attacked relentlessly like her mother.
Sofia is a different matter, she her path will lead her from royal life to private life while having to find a proper job. She'll have to deal with the spare's life being torn between two worlds.
In principle, the life of the Infanta Sofia should be much easier for her than for the future queen.
She will have the freedom, in theory, to choose her future. But there is a problem: they are only two sisters and if Sofia makes a good marriage that allows her (if she wishes) to continue representing the crown, Leonor will surely keep her by her side. There are many years left for Leonor to marry, have children, those children grow up and Sofia can separate herself, if she so wishes, from the crown.
We could find that Sofia never separates from the crown (like so many infantas before her). Each different circumstance is what history writes.
If she does not wants to work for the crown, she will be free to choose her life, her husband and she will be much happier. In any case Sofia will be much freer and has the same support among the Spanish as Leonor.
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  #275  
Old 04-27-2020, 01:12 PM
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In principle, the life of the Infanta Sofia should be much easier for her than for the future queen.
She will have the freedom, in theory, to choose her future. But there is a problem: they are only two sisters and if Sofia makes a good marriage that allows her (if she wishes) to continue representing the crown, Leonor will surely keep her by her side. There are many years left for Leonor to marry, have children, those children grow up and Sofia can separate herself, if she so wishes, from the crown.
We could find that Sofia never separates from the crown (like so many infantas before her). Each different circumstance is what history writes.
If she does not wants to work for the crown, she will be free to choose her life, her husband and she will be much happier. In any case Sofia will be much freer and has the same support among the Spanish as Leonor.
But in "modern Spain" the Infantas loose their royal position as the focus is entirely on the King, Queen and their children. Seen Doña Pilar, see Doña Margarita, see Doña Elena, see Doña Cristina. As sisters of the King they ceased to be members of the Casa Real. When Doña Leonor is Queen, her sister Doña Sofía will cease to be a member of the Casa Real.
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  #276  
Old 04-27-2020, 01:54 PM
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But in "modern Spain" the Infantas loose their royal position as the focus is entirely on the King, Queen and their children. Seen Doña Pilar, see Doña Margarita, see Doña Elena, see Doña Cristina. As sisters of the King they ceased to be members of the Casa Real. When Doña Leonor is Queen, her sister Doña Sofía will cease to be a member of the Casa Real.

Exactly, and Sofia can be very young or middle aged when it happens, nobody knows, so with bad luck Leonor will be on her own when she needs support. While Leonor seems to have inherited Felipe's character traits, Sofia comes across more lively or 'naughty', she will have the tabloid press on her back for the rest of her life and will possibly give them a run for their money.
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  #277  
Old 04-27-2020, 02:25 PM
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I agree, that not knowing when you will be 'thrown out' will make it rather hard for Sofía to find her way in life. As long as her father is king she is supposed to be at his disposal but the moment her sister ascends to the throne (and as Duke of Marmalade pointed out that moment can be either soon or may be decades away), she is kicked out.

So, what is she supposed to do with her life?!
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  #278  
Old 04-27-2020, 02:26 PM
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It might not be like that. King Felipe VI has decided that members of his family who belong to the royal house, especially his daughters, will not be able to have their own businesses and will not be able to work for other companies. Sofia, in principle, will have to work for the Royal House.
I believe Sofia will dedicate much of her life to Spain.
Everything can change if Sofia marries a member of another Royal House, for example, or if she wants to disconnect from the royal house (as Harry did).
The King has made this decision to protect the monarchy because of what happened to Infanta Cristina.
I will try to find an article on this subject.

Edited.
Here is an article on this subject:
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/2014072...a/982941.shtml
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Old 04-27-2020, 02:56 PM
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It might not be like that. King Felipe VI has decided that members of his family who belong to the royal house, especially his daughters, will not be able to have their own businesses and will not be able to work for other companies. Sofia, in principle, will have to work for the Royal House.
I believe Sofia will dedicate much of her life to Spain.
Everything can change if Sofia marries a member of another Royal House, for example, or if she wants to disconnect from the royal house (as Harry did).
The King has made this decision to protect the monarchy because of what happened to Infanta Cristina.
I will try to find an article on this subject.

Edited.
Here is an article on this subject:
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/2014072...a/982941.shtml

It does not make any sense, Sofia can only dedicate her life to Spain as long as she is a member of the RF. When she becomes a member of the Queen's family, she has to be able to earn her living, in between very young or middle aged. Therefore I believe she has to have an education to be qualified to hold a job that will pay her bills later in life.

Of course she could marry a royal or a billionaire, no problem.

But she - and her future husband - will be under enormous scrutiny not to benefit from the royal status. The poor guy will have to earn enough money to give his princess wife a decent lifestyle without the slightest hint of nepotism - something that Inaki did not manage and even Jaime was given a job by royal house connections. So, while Felipe's measures may be transparent, they don't make the life of Infanta Sofia any easier.
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  #280  
Old 04-27-2020, 03:49 PM
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It might not be like that. King Felipe VI has decided that members of his family who belong to the royal house, especially his daughters, will not be able to have their own businesses and will not be able to work for other companies. Sofia, in principle, will have to work for the Royal House.
I believe Sofia will dedicate much of her life to Spain.
Everything can change if Sofia marries a member of another Royal House, for example, or if she wants to disconnect from the royal house (as Harry did).
The King has made this decision to protect the monarchy because of what happened to Infanta Cristina.
I will try to find an article on this subject.

Edited.
Here is an article on this subject:
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/2014072...a/982941.shtml
I am not sure how this contradicts what we said. This is exactly the issue. Sofía is expected to work for the crown as long as she is a member of the royal house, which is, as long as her father is king. When he is no longer king, she won't be member of the royal house (i.e., she will be 'kicked out') and needs to find something else to do with her life.

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It does not make any sense, Sofia can only dedicate her life to Spain as long as she is a member of the RF. When she becomes a member of the Queen's family, she has to be able to earn her living, in between very young or middle aged. Therefore I believe she has to have an education to be qualified to hold a job that will pay her bills later in life.

Of course she could marry a royal or a billionaire, no problem.

But she - and her future husband - will be under enormous scrutiny not to benefit from the royal status. The poor guy will have to earn enough money to give his princess wife a decent lifestyle without the slightest hint of nepotism - something that Inaki did not manage and even Jaime was given a job by royal house connections. So, while Felipe's measures may be transparent, they don't make the life of Infanta Sofia any easier.
Exactly, the rules only apply to members of the 'Casa Real'. Sofía won't be a member of the 'Casa Real' her whole life but only as long as her father is king and her sister is 'princess of Asturias'. Once her sister becomes queen, she will be demoted from member of the 'Casa Real' to member of the 'Familia de la Reina'. At that point she is no longer expected to take on royal duties and hopefully will still do something meaningful with her life. So, she needs to prepare for a dual career: for the moment a 'royal one' and for the long term a 'non-royal one'.

I hope they will allow her to develop some 'outside' career from the start that is compatible with taking on royal duties, so it won't be a hard landing once she no longer is 'needed'.
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