The Banned Cover of 'El Jueves' Magazine and Related Issues: July 2007


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lula

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Everything has a limit, and in this occasion “El Jueves” has exceeded the minimum respect that must to the people who represent of a worthy way to the State and all the citizens. The magazine can have jokes, satires... about the Royal family have always done them... but this it already passes to the lack of respect and the bad education.

Now that the press does not cry, it does not criticize and it protests… because if continues demonstrating this lack of respect, like many others, which obtains is that the Princes get tired and “they close the faucet”. And at the moment in Palma de Mallorca they are waiting for the images of the vacations of the Princes with their daughters, who suppose a good money for the press.
 
if they dare to post something like this is because they don't respect the Princes much, nothing like this would be posted in any other country regarding their CP couple

maybe it's their personal brand of making fun, maybe it's something deeper, who knows:ermm:
 
The truth that could have been another photo with another joke I believe that one has gone away to them of the hands to the CR.This had not published it years ago, of that I am safe and soon the text that puts the princess to him is one hurts that they do that.

They had to put itself but serious so that these things did not return to happen
 
" El Jueves " has never been characterized by the respect to anybody ... in this occasion, they have used a very easy resource (that denotes lack of ideas and of imagination), to have an advertising and economic performance (if they do not create a polemic front page nobody speaks about them). Probably what they have not calculated they are the repercussions that this type of attitudes have for the rest of the press. There will be a certain type of press that they " laughs the joke ", and there will be other one, which will criticize them for thinking that this type of attitudes, eventually, harm all.
 
Everything has a limit, and in this occasion “El Jueves” has exceeded the minimum respect that must to the people who represent of a worthy way to the State and all the citizens. The magazine can have jokes, satires... about the Royal family have always done them... but this it already passes to the lack of respect and the bad education.

Now that the press does not cry, it does not criticize and it protests… because if continues demonstrating this lack of respect, like many others, which obtains is that the Princes get tired and “they close the faucet”. And at the moment in Palma de Mallorca they are waiting for the images of the vacations of the Princes with their daughters, who suppose a good money for the press.

Personally I agree, as I said in Germany there is a similar magazine and in many cases the court has to decide what satire is and what not, depending on the reaction of the people concerned (mostly VIPs or politicians). How do the princes react in general when it's beyond the usual sense of humour? IMO this is a case where they could raise an official complain to the press because it's a bit too much. The result might be that even more people buy the mag or have a look at it, but at least they might gain some respect because they show that they don't let themselves being ridiculed w/o any limit.

Another example for what I said in earlier posts, that some parts of the press lack any respect towards the princes, something they would never dare to do to the Kings.
 
Personally I agree, as I said in Germany there is a similar magazine and in many cases the court has to decide what satire is and what not, depending on the reaction of the people concerned (mostly VIPs or politicians). How do the princes react in general when it's beyond the usual sense of humour? IMO this is a case where they could raise an official complain to the press because it's a bit too much. The result might be that even more people buy the mag or have a look at it, but at least they might gain some respect because they show that they don't let themselves being ridiculed w/o any limit.

Another example for what I said in earlier posts, that some parts of the press lack any respect towards the princes, something they would never dare to do to the Kings.

No, never it would pass this to the Kings of that I am very safe. :neutral:
 
Personally, I think that to use this type of images to do humor only demonstrates lack of ideas ... it is a too easy resource.

" El jueves " is a magazine of very acid humor .... often satires of the King do, not with images of this type, but yes, with more acid and more intelligent texts or images. In this occasion, it impresses the type of image, but the text does not stop being another " easy resource ", because the Prince " never works " (not who would say if in Spain there was another Prince).

The King and the Prince are persons intelligently, with sense of the humor, which cartoons collect ... what happens is that in this occasion this front page is not " intelligent humor " but " intelligent business " (and I do not have the above mentioned very clear).:rolleyes:
 
Personally, those kind of..mmm... ¿journalists? the only thing they care for is money and polemics sell so good in this country, doesn't matter who can hurt in the proccess.
 
The Hearing prohibits the sale of the last number of 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to the Wreath

The judge of the National Hearing Juan del Olmo has ordered by request of the General District attorney's office of the State, to withdraw of the kiosks and to prohibit the diffusion of the last number of the satirical magazine 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to The Wreath. The front page of its last number, to the sale from yesterday, represents a cartoon of the Princes of Asturias in a sexual explicit attitude.
...
 
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The Hearing prohibits the sale of the last number of 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to the Wreath

The judge of the National Hearing Juan del Olmo has ordered by request of the General District attorney's office of the State, to withdraw of the kiosks and to prohibit the diffusion of the last number of the satirical magazine 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to The Wreath. The front page of its last number, to the sale from yesterday, represents a cartoon of the Princes of Asturias in a sexual explicit attitude.
...

Thanks lula.
Same story, the court had to decide. Now some people will say the decision was right, because it insults the princes, others will say it was wrong, because it cuts the freedom of press and besides it is satire. People are now aware and the mag will probably do much better than usual. All at cost of the princes, who might now even be critizised by people for not bearing enough humour :wacko:
Personally I think the princes have done the right thing by complaining but it's appalling to see how they have become an object for a certain press to make money by showing the utmost disrespect. I wonder how they can stop this trend because it does a lot of damage to their future as Kings of Spain.
 
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Personally I think the princes have done the right thing by complaining
There's no information about the Princes having addressed any complain... that's just the Law... according to the Penal Code, people who insult the King or his descendants may be condemned to 2 years in jail, so those guys from El Jueves are actually lucky for not receiving a major damage with this.
 
Duke, I agree in that now the press will create a great polemic concerning the Princes, and alredy they have bussiness for weeks.

A thing is the "freedom of expression" and other one to do what one wants, the freedom of a person ends where it begins the freedom of other one... and in this case, though it is a joke, they have exceeded the line of the minimal respect that owes a person to itself.

Another thing that I want to clarify. Neither the Princes, neither the Royal House, have done nothing, have not even denounced anybody.

The Public prosecutor of the State is the one that undertakes legal actions because it considers that the magazine has committed a crime of the Penal Code.
 
Duke, I agree in that now the press will create a great polemic concerning the Princes, and alredy they have bussiness for weeks.

A thing is the "freedom of expression" and other one to do what one wants, the freedom of a person ends where it begins the freedom of other one... and in this case, though it is a joke, they have exceeded the line of the minimal respect that owes a person to itself.

Another thing that I want to clarify. Neither the Princes, neither the Royal House, have done nothing, have not even denounced anybody.

The Public prosecutor of the State is the one that undertakes legal actions because it considers that the magazine has committed a crime of the Penal Code.

Thanks for explaining lula, makes sense. Probably the same thing for any Head of State, monarch or not. All others have to raise their requests themselves, the result should be the same although it's a thin line between insult and satire and courts are not always on the same opinion.

By the way, it's still on the webpage of el jueves. Now of course they make the most of it :bangin:
 
That's censorship, sometimes I wonder if I'm living Franco's epoca upon my mother's memories.

Thanks to all the censors now El Jueves and that cover is on the four points of the world, great.

When you can call tyrant the tyrant you don't need humor, in Spain we get crazy with things like the Mahoma caricatures and the musulmans reactions, with the censorship in other countries et al but we need to look to ourselves and stop looking so much outside.

A strong country, a strong President, a strong Monarchy won't mind humor for as acid as it could be, our democracy unfortunatelly is still weak, our monarchy is still weak and is no wonder that more and more people everyday are favoring a republic with a President and that's it.
 
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I am boring to read the word “censures” and the expression “freedom of expression”. Just as the press it has a right, the people, are Princes de Asturias that is my neighbor, they also have rights, and the right to the dignity is one of them.

"El Jueves" has exceeded the line of the respect to the people, of an unnecessary way. And they have let it knowing perfectly which were the consequences, perhaps was what these consequences looked for, perhaps only wanted the publicity that they have obtained.

In Spain there is a Penal Code, and the press knows it… if they exceed the line are not possible to be surprised. In this case the office of the public prosecutor takes the legal actions that correspond to him. If the same it had happened with a deprived person, and this had denounced it, the judge would have made the same decision, since they have made with some famous personages and certain programs of television.
 
i just read the news at el mundo, and the caricature incident is the first piece of news they feature. while i totally understand that it's quite a rare picture they decided to make, is it that serious as to send a person to jail for 6 months? the judge apparently asked the editor to identify the people involved in the drawing. as the other poster said, i find it annoying that we are actually living under such a dictatorial regime after all. look at the scandal of clinton-lewinsky (taking into account that some years ago, it was even more serious), nothing happened in terms of identifying responsible people or sending them to jail because of mentioning certain things of the president's life. the only difference is that that was a REAL case. this is just a drawing. there's such a huge difference between some countries...

i'd say it's perfect to take the edition out of the market (althoug again... don't we have freedom of expression and speech -or at least so they tell us everyday? freedom of expression of everyone should definitely be overimposed to respect to, after all, public figures), but jailing people for just a drawing is far too exagerated.
 
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The first thing that is wrong, for starters, is the fact that on the Constitution the King have an article that says, in few words, that he's untouchable, however the Constitution dosn't says anything about the Prince and Princess.

If under the law they are untouchables and we start to appoint the responsible for.... and remember to the citizens that such jokes could cost somebody jail etc then this is Morocco not Spain.

I have become so acustomed to the US way of laugh about everything w/o holly cows that I'm amused with the things that are still happening in my born country, it dosn't looks like a democracy and yes, freedom of speech = freedom of speech and censorship is still called censorship.
 
i just read the news at el mundo, and the caricature incident is the first piece of news they feature. while i totally understand that it's quite a rare picture they decided to make, is it that serious as to send a person to jail for 6 months? the judge apparently asked the editor to identify the people involved in the drawing. as the other poster said, i find it annoying that we are actually living under such a dictatorial regime after all. look at the scandal of clinton-lewinsky (taking into account that some years ago, it was even more serious), nothing happened in terms of identifying responsible people or sending them to jail because of mentioning certain things of the president's life. the only difference is that that was a REAL case. this is just a drawing. there's such a huge difference between some countries...


I don't see how the Clinton-Lewinsky case is an analagous case? Sure, it should have remained a private matter but this matter came up when Lewinsky had to testify in relation to the Paula Jones case.

This may have been a drawing but it is also incredibly graphic and sexually explicit. Shouldn't everyone and this includes the princes, have the right to dignity? Would you like to see PM Zapatero and his wife in exactly the same pose? The critical point here is that El Jueves could have easily produced a different cartoon to make the same point.
 
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I have become so acustomed to the US way of laugh about everything w/o holly cows that I'm amused with the things that are still happening in my born country, it dosn't looks like a democracy and yes, freedom of speech = freedom of speech and censorship is still called censorship.

You are right that these are such important issues in any democracy. However, a biq question is this - would freedom of speech include the right for person X to defame, slander and to lie about person Y? Would that be a true democracy?

Freedom is speech is really important for everyone but I think that it is just as important to protect the freedom and right of people to dignity and from slander, harrassment and lies.
 
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The law is the law, and what they do the judge and the public prosecutor are to fulfill it. The press is not stupid, know the law… and if they decide to go to limit, they always have the danger that in the end this happens.

The Royal House never denounces no journalist reason why it writes. And I believe that Princess de Asturias, could easily gain many judgments by insults, damage to the honor and interference in private life.

The Royal House is too permisive with the press… in other countries many situations would finish in denunciation. In the end, that causes that the press sees free way, and in this occasion they have gone so far away that they have crashed.

Lately, several judges have prevented the emission of television programs, because some famous personage had interposed a denunciation. If the press is not regulated to itself, the judges will have to regulate it, because the same law that gives freedom to the press, gives freedom to the people so that they are defended of it.

Here the decision has been of the Office of the public prosecutor and not of a deprived person, but they have decided to denounce, the judge will have to take the measures that the law establishes.
 
You are right that these are such important issues in any democracy. However, a biq question is this - would freedom of speech include the right for person X to defame, slander and to lie about person Y? Would that be a true democracy?

Freedom is speech is really important for everyone but I think that it is just as important to protect the freedom and right of people to dignity and from slander, harrassment and lies.

I understand your point however the magazines, newspapers, stands, the internet are full of caricatures, acid or not, of Princess, Kings, Presidents that we vote for, even the Pope, how many caricatures, really ugly ones of the Pope have being in the last two years? Many, they may be Princess and Prince but they are public figures and not untouchables, as far as I know, some people have sense of humor some others don't.
 
A explanation for Rania. In many countries, the figure of the Head of the state has protection before the Law, are monarchies or republics. The most recent and scandalous case is the one of the Presidnete of Israel, accussed of violation could not be judged while he was head of the State, reason why had to reach an agreement with him so that he resigned in exchange for which they reduced the sentence to him.

Here you have the Spanish Penal Code

Penal Code establishes, in the point number 3 of the article 490 you suffer of prison from six months to two years for the one that slanders or insults the King or to any of his ascendancies or descendants, to the Queen colitigant or to the colitigant of the Queen, to the Regent or some member of the Regency, or to the Prince inheritor of the Wreath, in the exercise of thefunctions or with motive or occasion of these. In case the damage or the calumny were not serious, sentence would be six to twelve months.

According to the point two of the article 491, a sentence of fine will be imposed from six to 24 months whom the image of the King uses or of any of his ascendancies or descendants, or of the Queen colitigant or of the Prince inheritor, of any form that could damage the prestige of the Wreath.

Finally, in the article 208 of the Penal Code it is found that it is a damage the action or expression that they injure the dignity of another person, reducing his reputation or committing an outrage against his own estimation. Only they will be constitutive of crime the damages that, as its nature, effects and circumstances, are had in the public concept for serious. The damages that consist of the imputation of facts will not be considered to be serious, except when they should have been carried out by knowledge of its falsehood or rash scorn towards the truth.
 
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Yes there is Freedom of expression, but in any case you couldn't go so far like El Jueves Magazine did, They show Princes of Asturias having sex, and that is the limit, They definetly went so far, extremely far, Princes are Human Beings, and nobody would like to be posted in that kind of sense of humor, is just DISGUSTING, There isn't excuses for that.
 
The law is the law, and what they do the judge and the public prosecutor are to fulfill it. The press is not stupid, know the law… and if they decide to go to limit, they always have the danger that in the end this happens.


i agree, the law is the law, and there's nothing they can do to compete with it. the question here is whether the law is ethical or not: what's first? the drawer's freedom of expression and speech or the royal family's integrity and respect? they are both principles of our law: which one of them gets precedence and more importance then? if we complain about the writer not following the law or the rules, then the royal house (or in this case the judge) isn't either following them.
 
i agree, the law is the law, and there's nothing they can do to compete with it. the question here is whether the law is ethical or not: what's first? the drawer's freedom of expression and speech or the royal family's integrity and respect? they are both principles of our law: which one of them gets precedence and more importance then? if we complain about the writer not following the law or the rules, then the royal house (or in this case the judge) isn't either following them.

The right to the dignity is not a right only of the Royal Family, is a right of all the citizens. If a citizen makes a denunciation by the same causes, the judge would take the measures you will prevent necessary, that they would be the same ones.

The press has freedom of expression, but its freedom of expression takes implicit a conduct code. They have freedom of expression, whenever the information that they transmit is important for the public opinion and that with that freedom they do not attack the fundamental rights of other people.

"El Jueves" takes to years doing very acid critics on the Royal Family and the politicians… without no problem… but I believe that if is certain, that in this occasion, they have exceeded. The same critic could be done, with no need to represent the naked Princes and practicing sex… by the way, that the text either aid, because to say that the Prince does not work it is also false.

I am not judge nor lawyer, they have taken the law and they have interpreted it.

The caricature to me continues seeming an unnecessary excess, harmful for the dignity of the Princes. I would not like that they represented to me in that form.

But through my head they pass many ideas, that they make me think that there is something more.
 
I understand your point however the magazines, newspapers, stands, the internet are full of caricatures, acid or not, of Princess, Kings, Presidents that we vote for, even the Pope, how many caricatures, really ugly ones of the Pope have being in the last two years? Many, they may be Princess and Prince but they are public figures and not untouchables, as far as I know, some people have sense of humor some others don't.

RaniaRocks, I am not saying that the princes should be untouchable. More importantly, we have in fact, seen time and time again with all the stuff that they have been subjected to that they are absolutely NOT untouchable in Spain. Quite the contrary.

I also agree with you that that there are many caricatures in newspapers, the internet, etc. However, I haven't seen other caricatures of two recognizable public figures in such an explicit sexual position. (And this is probably for good reason.) Public figures may be public figures but I don't think that it should give others carte blanche to say or do whatever they want about them. The point that the caricature was trying to make could have been easily made without resorting to that particular image. It was also not terribly funny.
 
the question here is whether the law is ethical or not: what's first? the drawer's freedom of expression and speech or the royal family's integrity and respect?
I'm not Spanish, but I tell you this: if such caricature was made for my country's President of Republic, I would be the first person to condem it... and not only because that person was the Head of State... If such cartoon was made about of Carlota or Raniarocks, I would also equally condemn it... because you too would have the right to be defended by the Law.

Clinton has nothing to do with this... this was completelly different. It was a sexually explicit content of utter distrespect about other human being. If you want a comparisson, it may be compared to some cases on the Internet, when the courts were called to decide about sexual/porn anipulated images.
 
From El Jueves.


July the 20th of 2007?

We are writting this note on Friday, July 20 of 2007, at 19h. We have the office full of mass media letters asking us the reason of the kidnapping of the magazine. We do not know what respond to them. El Jueves has published tens, hundreds of drawings on the royal family (and on politicians, famous, the ETA and everything what moves). We have even published a book, TOUCHING the BORBONES, 350 pages that compiled the more funny drawings.

We are graphical humorists and we worked conscious that our obligation, what the readers requests from us is that we explore the limits of the freedom of expression. We can accept that, even, in some occasion, we could have sinned by excess. Occupational hazard, parcel of the job . If we go too far there we have the courts but... a magazine kidnapping? the police crossing the kiosks of the whole country retiring our magazine? Are we really writing this on July the 20th of 2007?.


Oh, now the judge want to close the website also and "recommend" to all the websites not to published the caricature, well, I guess they will have a great deal of work because nobody outside Spain have to do what an spanyard judge wants, oh this is so disgusting, the censorship a full as in Franco's years.
 
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Yes there is Freedom of expression, but in any case you couldn't go so far like El Jueves Magazine did, They show Princes of Asturias having sex, and that is the limit, They definetly went so far, extremely far, Princes are Human Beings, and nobody would like to be posted in that kind of sense of humor, is just DISGUSTING, There isn't excuses for that.

Yes, Catango, you're right.
I think these caricatures are offensive to the Princes. And I guess everyone would be offended if this had happen with themselves.
As other members said the Royal House didn't complain. That's their decision, but they would hve all the right to complain.
 
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The District attorney's office asks the judge to close also the web of ' El Jueves'

The district attorney Michael Ángel Carballo has requested the judge of the National Hearing Juan del Olmo who adopts the opportune measures to close the page of the magazine ' The Thursday ' after stating that in her(it) there continues spreading a cartoon of the Princes of Asturias that the Attorney General's office considers to be constitutive of a crime of damages to the Wreath.

The district attorney invokes the article 13 of the Law of Criminal Prosecution and diverse rules of the Law of Service of Society of the Information, who regulates the activity of this type of informative support.
 
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