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  #101  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I agree, it will be worse for Leonor, in addition to the 'how is she looking', since her job makes her Head of the Armed Forces meaning she'll have attend some serious military training/attend military school to be taken seriously, to this very day dominated by men and very sexit. [....]
Wilhelmina, Marie-Adelheid, Charlotte, Juliana, Elizabeth, Margrethe, Beatrix and the future Queen Victoria: none of them have enrolled into a military academy and none of them held an active commission in the armed forces. So there is really no need for that.

They have professionals in the armed forces, there is no any military role for today's monarchs other than a purely ceremonial one. It is even so: in the Netherlands the heir had to end all his military commissions because as King he is an integral part of Government, the supreme authority. In Dutch eyes an officer can not be subservient to a supreme authority when he himself is part of said supreme authority.

With other words: even males have no real role, so in this aspect I see little difference between Doña Leonor and her male colleagues. Just theatre of state.
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  #102  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:20 AM
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Here are a few more photos from the ceremony today.

PPE Agency
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  #103  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:24 PM
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King Felipe's message of thanks

https://twitter.com/CasaReal/status/958384882715119617

Heartfelt thanks for all the congratulations I received today. Each one reinforces me in my commitment to serve every Spaniard every day. And I take this opportunity to congratulate those who share their birthday with me today.


Congratulations from the Royal Guard

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  #104  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:33 PM
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Thanks, Annie_S for your explanation.
And camelot23ca, Duke of Marmalade and Duc et Pair for your thoughts.

That's an early age to begin to give a presumably not that short a speech, but IMO she might just as well get started and I imagine she in Asturia will find a very sympathetic audience - and also because she is still a child.
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  #105  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:01 PM
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I noticed the Infantas Elena and Margarita with her husband the Duke of Soria but I did not see the Infanta Pilar.
Queens Letizia and Sofia looked so proud today as if they were ready to burst and nice to see queen Letizia's mother seated along the kings sister and aunt.
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  #106  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:28 PM
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A nice ceremony indeed, and what a proud father in Felipe.
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  #107  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:10 PM
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Leonor is such a delicately beautiful child. They all look so proud, I think her maternal grandmother wiped a tear off her face.
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  #108  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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It was a very nice ceremony. The pictures of Felipe and Leonor are so beautiful.

From Hola.com: El emotivo discurso de Felipe VI dirigido a la Princesa de Asturias: 'Querida Leonor, he escogido compartir contigo este día especial'
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  #109  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:21 PM
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DM article & pictures of the event:
Princess Leonor receives the Order of the Golden Fleece* | Daily Mail Online
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  #110  
Old 01-30-2018, 02:38 PM
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I am glad that some of you mentioned that Sofia looks proud as I feel for her as this day is probably the first in which a very clear distinction is made between the two sisters: one destined for the throne and the other to serve the crown until her sister ascends the throne, afterwards she is out...
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  #111  
Old 01-30-2018, 03:18 PM
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I am glad that some of you mentioned that Sofia looks proud as I feel for her as this day is probably the first in which a very clear distinction is made between the two sisters: one destined for the throne and the other to serve the crown until her sister ascends the throne, afterwards she is out...
I was actually thinking about that too this morning. The rule of primogeniture inevitably implies that the heir will always be treated differently from his/her younger siblings as he/she is "more important", so to speak , to the continuity of the State.

However, having observed Queen Sofia, Queen Silvia, Queen Beatrix, or even Queen Elizabeth II, and now, in the younger generation, Maxima, Mathilde and Mary, my impression is that they are/were very good at separating the private life from the public life of the Royal Family and, in the private sphere, the family dynamic doesn't seem to be that much influenced by the order of succession, or by rank or precedence.

There may be even cases where queens appear to be actually personally closer to some of their younger children than to the heir. Paola and Astrid (and, by extension, Astrid's family), versus Paola and Philippe, seem to be an example, but, to a certain extent; that is also true perhaps with Sofia and her daughters (versus Felipe), or with Elizabeth and Anne or Andrew in the past (now also with Edward/Sophie) compared to Charles, whose relationship with his mother seems to be more "professional". Of course, I may be wrong as I don't know any of those people in their intimacy.

In any case, the King's speech sent a message also to the Infanta Sofia that is the harsh reality of hereditary monarchy: the burden to reign will pass to Leonor and Sofia's role in the Royal House, as long as she is a member thereof, will be to "support her sister", which is the role of all royal siblings. It is not a bad deal though, as one gets a lot of the perks, without all the responsibilities.
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  #112  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:30 PM
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I think that's also very much a question of sheer necessity.
The heir or monarch know better than everyone else what it means to be heir or monarch and of course he/she will try and educate and influence the next heir as much as possible. And that at least on the face of it, can seem like he/she is favoring the oldest.
I also think it's to some degree natural that the royal spouse at least to some degree will try and compensate for the attention the oldest get, especially when the younger are still relatively small children.
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  #113  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:36 PM
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Here's another gallery including a video of today's ceremony:


** pp: Felipe d'Espagne a 50 ans : Grande émotion avec Leonor, son héritière de 12 ans **
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  #114  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:21 PM
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rather lovely ceremony. felipe is clearly proud of leonor, and both leonor and sofia are well behaved, tamed children (although a bit too much - one wonders if perhaps they are too 'groomed' compared to other royal kids who are... well, more 'kidlike').

i liked seeing leonor curtsy for the first time in public. i wonder if sofia should curtsy to her sister?
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  #115  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
rather lovely ceremony. felipe is clearly proud of leonor, and both leonor and sofia are well behaved, tamed children (although a bit too much - one wonders if perhaps they are too 'groomed' compared to other royal kids who are... well, more 'kidlike').

i liked seeing leonor curtsy for the first time in public. i wonder if sofia should curtsy to her sister?
No, the Infanta Doña Elena and the Infanta Doña Cristina never went through the knees for their own brother when he was Prince of Asturias. When Doña Leonor will be Queen one day, and the tradition is still observed, Doña Sofía will possibly go through her knees for her sister.
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  #116  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:29 PM
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I am glad that some of you mentioned that Sofia looks proud as I feel for her as this day is probably the first in which a very clear distinction is made between the two sisters: one destined for the throne and the other to serve the crown until her sister ascends the throne, afterwards she is out...

I think Sofia will be fine. She seems like quite a self possessed young girl - I would guess she was the elder daughter if I didn’t know better - and in the recent video and the ceremony today I get the sense she might not take herself or the business of being royal quite as super seriously as the rest of the family.

The person I felt a little sad for was Leonor. You could tell she was trying so hard to do everything perfectly - it was sweet but a little heartbreaking. I really do wish Felipe and Letizia would let her interact with the public more often in less formal and less pressured situations. Take her to a farm or a small museum or some sort of organization a twelve year old would find cool and give her a chance to feel her way through it without the whole thing being micromanaged. Doing something that was fun and involved just talking naturally to a few friendly people might take a bit of the weight off her shoulders.
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  #117  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I was actually thinking about that too this morning. The rule of primogeniture inevitably implies that the heir will always be treated differently from his/her younger siblings as he/she is "more important", so to speak , to the continuity of the State.

However, having observed Queen Sofia, Queen Silvia, Queen Beatrix, or even Queen Elizabeth II, and now, in the younger generation, Maxima, Mathilde and Mary, my impression is that they are/were very good at separating the private life from the public life of the Royal Family and, in the private sphere, the family dynamic doesn't seem to be that much influenced by the order of succession, or by rank or precedence.

There may be even cases where queens appear to be actually personally closer to some of their younger children than to the heir. Paola and Astrid (and, by extension, Astrid's family), versus Paola and Philippe, seem to be an example, but, to a certain extent; that is also true perhaps with Sofia and her daughters (versus Felipe), or with Elizabeth and Anne or Andrew in the past (now also with Edward/Sophie) compared to Charles, whose relationship with his mother seems to be more "professional". Of course, I may be wrong as I don't know any of those people in their intimacy.

In any case, the King's speech sent a message also to the Infanta Sofia that is the harsh reality of hereditary monarchy: the burden to reign will pass to Leonor and Sofia's role in the Royal House, as long as she is a member thereof, will be to "support her sister", which is the role of all royal siblings. It is not a bad deal though, as one gets a lot of the perks, without all the responsibilities.
It is indeed unavoidable. I guess my main issue is that she eventually will be kicked out but still has to remain available for the just in case. If she would be allowed to at least stay an official member of the royal family, it would already feel different. In that case one could indeed argue that that position has a lot of advantages. Still contribute but also have some space to carve out your own life unlike the heir him/herself.

In general, I would like to see the children of monarchs to be a member of the royal house for life and not be done away with at some point. Of course they will have to carve out a career that is compatible with that position which isn't easy but being dumped is just harsh; evenmore so when that moment is the ascension of your brother or sister (not your niece or nephew - although at that point you are of an age in which they should respect you for your lifelong duty).
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  #118  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:36 PM
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It is the Spanish way. The three children of King Juan Carlos also were so much more groomed and instructed than contemporaries in other monarchies. You can also see that King Felipe is incomparable with his more relaxed colleagues in Northern Europe.
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  #119  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think Sofia will be fine. She seems like quite a self possessed young girl - I would guess she was the elder daughter if I didn’t know better - and in the recent video and the ceremony today I get the sense she might not take herself or the business of being royal quite as super seriously as the rest of the family.

The person I felt a little sad for was Leonor. You could tell she was trying so hard to do everything perfectly - it was sweet but a little heartbreaking. I really do wish Felipe and Letizia would let her interact with the public more often in less formal and less pressured situations. Take her to a farm or a small museum or some sort of organization a twelve year old would find cool and give her a chance to feel her way through it without the whole thing being micromanaged. Doing something that was fun and involved just talking naturally to a few friendly people might take a bit of the weight off her shoulders.
Yes, I agree that Leonor is probably the one we should feel for (as well). Sofia seems to approach the royal life a bit easier/more lighthearted than Leonor, probably partly due to her position and partly due to character. It would be wonderful if both girls would have some less formal, more age appropriate royal activities going forward.
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  #120  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is the Spanish way. The three children of King Juan Carlos also were so much more groomed and instructed than contemporaries in other monarchies. You can also see that King Felipe is incomparable with his more relaxed colleagues in Northern Europe.
The Belgian royal children are also very well behaved and very clearly instructed but they have done some other activities over the years as well. So, it could be combined.
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