Engagement of Prince Felipe and Letizia Ortiz: November 1, 2003 - Page 9

hrhcp · #**161** 11-02-2003, 07:36 PM

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Fireweaver  Posted: Nov 2nd, 2003 - 7:17 pm

Anne wasn't ever Crown Princess. Charles is the oldest.

But a case in point is Norway, where Martha Louise is the oldest and he brother will become king, and after his birth the law was changed. Whereas, in Sweden the law was changed after Victoria was born, but before Carl Philip showed up. :)

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Also, I may be wrong,but Felipe isn't styled as Crown Prince. He's the Prince of Asturias. This is the title for the heir to the throne in Spain.

That, I believe is correct, just like in England the Crown Prince is officially titled as the Prince of Wales.

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Any other males (and females) bear the title Infante/Infanta

I didn't know that. I was always wondering about the the word "Infanta". I define it in my mind as 'child' while on the other hand I know it is a spanish word meaning 'soldier'.

Sean.~ · #**162** 11-02-2003, 08:41 PM

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That, I believe is correct, just like in England the Crown Prince is officially titled as the Prince of Wales.

Not necessarily. It is up to the monarch when and if he/or she will grant the title of Prince of Wales to an heir apparent. Prince Charles wasn't Prince of Wales until the late 1960s, however, he was heir apparent from his mothers accession onwards.

Sean

hrhcp · #**163** 11-02-2003, 09:00 PM

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Sean.~  Posted: Nov 2nd, 2003 - 8:41 pm

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That, I believe is correct, just like in England the Crown Prince is officially titled as the Prince of Wales.

Not necessarily. It is up to the monarch when and if he/or she will grant the title of Prince of Wales to an heir apparent. Prince Charles wasn't Prince of Wales until the late 1960s, however, he was heir apparent from his mothers accession onwards.

... its a wording thing. I could say I was taking the position of the continental Europe who are in all likelihood clued out with the eccentricities of the English court. I would imagine on the continent, all members of society look at the firstborn male in the ruling family as 'crown prince' and in england the same person is at first recognized as 'heir presumptive'.

In a way, the english style is better because it is more careful given the vagaries of human life.

By the way, Sean,

when was the last time, that the "heir presumptive" was NOT selected to become the Prince of Wales ? :)

Christian

Sean.~ · #**164** 11-02-2003, 10:38 PM

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I would imagine on the continent, all members of society look at the firstborn male in the ruling family as 'crown prince' and in england the same person is at first recognized as 'heir presumptive'. 

Not necessarily. Many of the of the continental countries now have primogeniture, where the eldest child, *regardless* of sex is heir. Conversely, in other countries, such as Spain, Britain Monaco (Greece as well) etc., the female child comes after her brothers. So, for instance, at her Birth Alexia of Greece was the diodicha (sp?). When her brother Pavlos was born, he superceded her.

As stated previously, In Britain a firstborn female child would be heiress presumptive. A first born male child would be heir apparent (not heir presumptive).

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In a way, the english style is better because it is more careful given the vagaries of human life. 

By the way, Sean,

when was the last time, that the "heir presumptive" was NOT selected to become the Prince of Wales ? :)

King George 6th. He was heir presumptive when Edward asceded the throne. Presumptive because it was presumed that the King would marry and have his own children. That never happpened.

However, I think you are getting presumptive and apparent confused.

Dennism · #**165** 11-02-2003, 11:08 PM

Well, I was just curious as to when Anne could become Queen. She was born after Charles but before Edward and Andrew.

MoonlightRhapsody · #**166** 11-02-2003, 11:40 PM

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Originally posted by Dennism@Nov 2nd, 2003 - 11:08 pm
Well, I was just curious as to when Anne could become Queen. She was born after Charles but before Edward and Andrew.

The only time that she can become queen is if Charles, William, and Harry were out of the way. Since Charles is the oldest male, he's second in line, followed by his sons William and Harry, third and fourth in line respectively.

Only then can Anne become queen followed by her children and their children (if any), then Andew and his daughters, and lastly Edward and his children.

Sean.~ · #**167** 11-02-2003, 11:45 PM

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Originally posted by Moonlightrhapsody@Nov 2nd, 2003 - 11:40 pm

The only time that she can become queen is if Charles, William, and Harry were out of the way. Since Charles is the oldest male, he's second in line, followed by his sons William and Harry, third and fourth in line respectively.

Only then can Anne become queen followed by her children and their children (if any), then Andew and his daughters, and lastly Edward and his children.

This is incorrect. In Britain, the monarch's male children and their issue come before female children and their issue. So the order of succession is:

Charles
William
Harry
Andrew
Beatrice
Eugenie
Edward
Anne
Peter
Zara

MoonlightRhapsody · #**168** 11-02-2003, 11:51 PM

My mistake...You're right. Anne is 8th in line.

Fireweaver · #**169** 11-02-2003, 11:53 PM

We're going off topic here, we can discuss the succession to the British throne in the British royals section :)

Sean.~ · #**170** 11-03-2003, 12:03 AM

Can you move the posts?

Dennism · #**171** 11-03-2003, 12:04 AM

I'm done.

elektraking · #**172** 11-03-2003, 01:42 AM

Hei.
I do know anymore. In three years all the bachelors get married and Filippe so quickly? I think is that his parents get afraight that he is not getting married and everyone is. She is divorced and the Spanish royal family is so conservative. My God they were objecting Isabella Sortarius , Filippe's girlfriend for five years , because she was just a marquese's daughter. And now divorced . Maybe if you are so picky at the end you end with a thumb in your mouth B) .
Ok. Another point has anyone noticed the resemblemse between Eva Samun (I think I am spelling this name wrong) and the future Spanish queen?
And I just cannot stop thinking what is wrong. Everything happened so fast. There wasn't even a prelude like Maxima or Mette. For how long did Filippe know his future wife.
I think that royals start kind of loosing their brilliance? I mean when we talked about who is the perfect husband for Charlotte , we were choosing among princes? I mean what is more glamorous Filippe and Madeline of Sweden or Filippe and the TV star? She does not have the pedegree. Anyways.
Good luck to them.

Merca · #**173** 11-03-2003, 02:06 AM

I like her very much. She has a regal bearing, she is intelligent, she knows how to handle the press etc.
One of the best candidates for the crown princess so far :flower:

beebee · #**174** 11-03-2003, 03:42 AM

Lia -- she's not 27, she's 31.

I know next to nothing about her, but on the surface she appears to be a qualified candidate for princess. She's intelligent, educated, professional, has had lots of experience dealing with the public, and she's extremely beautiful -- perhaps even more so than Mette-Marit and Rania, who in my opinion are the two most beautiful royals today.

Sean.~ · #**175** 11-03-2003, 03:44 AM

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I do know anymore. In three years all the bachelors get married and Filippe so quickly? I think is that his parents get afraight that he is not getting married and everyone is. She is divorced and the Spanish royal family is so conservative. My God they were objecting Isabella Sortarius , Filippe's girlfriend for five years , because she was just a marquese's daughter

Well, there was more the Sartorius affair than that. More specifically, the activities (or alleged activities) of her mother had a lot to do with it. She was alleged to have been supplying the Marbela jetset with narcotics.

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And I just cannot stop thinking what is wrong. Everything happened so fast. There wasn't even a prelude like Maxima or Mette. For how long did Filippe know his future wife.

Well, I think it's great that they were able to keep their relationship private. After all, he is entitled to conduct his relationships in privacy. It is nobody's business until it comes time for the engagement. Besides, if the relationship had failed, I doubt they would have wanted the whole world to know about(if it had failed, that is). Also, due to the nature of the royal fiance's job as a serious journalist, I'm sure she wanted to (had to) avoid as much publicity as possible. She obviously knows how to conduct herself with discretion and, in my opinion, this is definitely an asset. To answer your question, though, they've been seeing each other for a year.

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I think that royals start kind of loosing their brilliance? I mean when we talked about who is the perfect husband for  Charlotte , we were choosing among princes? I mean what is more glamorous Filippe and Madeline of Sweden or Filippe and the TV star? She does not have the pedegree. Anyways.

Well, "pedigree" is subjective. I'm sure she thinks her lineage is quite fine. Besides, she's a human being and not a dog.

In the 'olden' days royalty married royalty for political reasons. In today's world, that is no longer necessary. In fact, it could be more of politically ackward than anything else (e.g. at Sophia of Spain). Some of the German Houses still follow equality guidlines, but this, IMO, has more to do with inheritance purposes and old house laws that were never updated after the decleration of the republic in 1918. They derive the legitimacy of their claims by adhering to the old rules.

With respect to reigning houses, however, today's royal consort is more of a diplomat. He/she needs brains, polish, poise, people skills, tact, and discretion (looks don't hurt either). It seems to me that Miss Ortiz has all of these qualifications. She also knows the language, the culture, and the country's faith. Moreover, as a journalist, she is, no doubt,sensitive to the regional problems within the country, economic maters, and how Spain is perceived by the greater world community.

Just my thoughts.

S.

Eliza · #**176** 11-03-2003, 08:09 AM

From www.hellomagazine.com

Prince Felipe to wed T.V News Beauty
CP has taken the people of Spain by surprise by announcing his engagement to a glamorous newsreader. The handsome 35yr old will marry Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano, who presents the 9pm news on Spanish television, in Madrid's Almudena Cathedral next summer.

Felipe is expected to formally propse to the 31yr old divorcee in the Zarzuela Place on Thursday. Their engagement has been welcomed by the Spanish public, who have long been hoping for their popular prince to marry and start a family. Letizia has been described as "a perfect contemporary queen of the 21st century".

The copule are said to have met for the first time at a mutual friend's home in Sept 2002. They began dating four months ago, but managed to keep their courtship under wrpas until now.

Even the bride's father has admitted to being a little surprise by the happy news. "she suddenly told me recently that she had met someone," revealed the CP future father-in-law. " then she said it was getting serious and now this"

The future queen is already well-know to the Spanish public, thanks to her high-profile job. "she is a typical 21st century young woman" said a spokesman for the royal family. "she is independent, serious and reponsible and she knows where she is going."

My personal take on all this...
I think on the outside, she does have all the esteem qualities suited for the post of CP and future queen. I mean she is beautiful, smart, great figure and best of all, with her job experience she knows how to handle the press, media and pressure that comes with the title. Also, I think they kinda look good together, match in height and good looks. I just hope he hasn't been pressured into this.. the bit in hello that they dated 4mths ago just reminds me a little of charles and diana...hope this marriage has a happy ending...I do like the CP. But it's just so puzzling that the Queen approved this union..afterall she hasn't approved the others, but again maybe compared to the others this one comes up tops. Or perhaps she can see that they're truely in love...guess we'll just hve to wait until the 6 Nov and see their body language. what ever it is, I'm sure looking forward to the new year...2 royal weddings!!! My favourite. :P :P

Helen88 · #**177** 11-03-2003, 09:44 AM

I can´t believe Felipe is getting married! I bet next is Albert...

And about the German magazines...I can already see them writing "Felipe cheats on Letizia and comes back to Victoria" They are very "creative"...

thissal · #**178** 11-03-2003, 10:00 AM

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Originally posted by Sean.~@Nov 3rd, 2003 - 12:44 am
With respect to reigning houses, however, today's royal consort is more of a diplomat. He/she needs brains, polish, poise, people skills, tact, and discretion (looks don't hurt either).

Speaking of royal consorts I watched the "Meet the Royals" last night on A&E, and your requirements for a consort sound funny when applied to Prince Philip.

It seems most agree that Prince Philip is the master of gaffs and rudeness. But he has been exemplary in the areas of discretion and support of the queen, even if he has no tact and even less polish.

Josefine · #**179** 11-03-2003, 10:06 AM

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Originally posted by Helen88@Nov 3rd, 2003 - 3:44 pm

And about the German magazines...I can already see them writing "Felipe cheats on Letizia and comes back to Victoria" They are very "creative"...

I´ was thinknig the same thing

samitude · #**180** 11-03-2003, 11:13 AM

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Originally posted by Lena@Nov 1st, 2003 - 10:03 pm
And how long were Elena and Jaime together before?

I've heard that Elena and Jaime's marriage was entirely arranged by the King. So, I don't know if they ever were really together so to speak before their marriage. This may not be true though.