Rania's Role as Queen of Jordan

[synthia]

micas, what about Jordanian people shoes? Are you surprise that they have shoes? Oh, right, different from Rania s one.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by synthia@Jan 5th, 2004 - 3:18 pm
micas, what about Jordanian people shoes? Are you surprise that they have shoes? Oh, right, different from Rania s one.

Good point, Synthia. I think to many people are blinded by the glamour of Rania and Abdullah that they actually forget the plight of the Jordanian people and that Abdullah heads a corrupt, abusive, and basically authoritarian regime, where dissent is not tolerated. I really urge you to see my posts in the thread titled Quen Rania's Gold Shoes.

Sean. ~

 

[micas]

No, probleme. If you want post pics of Jordan people in this topic for me fine.
I am suprise for you find one because normally the pics from Jordan people don't have shose. I now that the situatio is bad but i don't now tha the King and Queen spend so much. They have personal fortune? ALL THE MONY THEY SPEND CAME FROM THE PEOPLE?
For Rania clothe (she repet some, i gona make a topic from repe cloth go there) i just have realise that she don't spend so few like she said she gona do . The king and queen promess help the people and not spend many money. I now the contri is wining some nice mony, with US plane that land there. Us need Jordan because the war and they pay always that plane land or cross there.
But still have very bad if they spend like that until the basical person don't have wath to eat.

 

[bluetortuga]

I'm surprised that the Hashemites have not learned from the examples of Iran, Egypt, Syria and Iraq (where their cousins were massacred). If the Jordanian monarchy falls to republicanism or islamic extremism they have no one to blame but themselves. The same can be said of the Palestinian Authority. Yassar Arafat and his cronies receives billions of dollars each year in aid from the UN and various other sources. I don't see where that money is being spent in the PA. It's all in Swiss bank accounts just in case the people finally get fed up and throw him out.

While I consider it a privilege to be able to live in a free society and express my opinions, I consider it a pity that Jordanians cannot publicly demand more of their monarchy without fear of retribution.

 

[Blueice]

I consider it a pity that Jordanians cannot publicly demand more of their monarchy without fear of retribution.

It is called 'psychology of group' - or a 'frog and the hot water syndrome' - after years or decades of life under repression and constant policy of more or less obvious terror (in various forms and manifestations), people in general develop submissive paranoid fear and resignation on subconscious level (a fear from their own shadow) which, speaking in a long term period, creates a passive aggressiveness; and, at the same time - a syndrome of collective depression and personal numbness, lack of interest and reconciliation with their present condition in respect to outer world on a conscious level. What happens ones the cup is full - we had an opportunity to see not only in the Middle East but in Europe as well.

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by bluetortuga@Jan 5th, 2004 - 5:22 pm
I'm surprised that the Hashemites have not learned from the examples of Iran, Egypt, Syria and Iraq (where their cousins were massacred). If the Jordanian monarchy falls to republicanism or islamic extremism they have no one to blame but themselves. The same can be said of the Palestinian Authority. Yassar Arafat and his cronies receives billions of dollars each year in aid from the UN and various other sources. I don't see where that money is being spent in the PA. It's all in Swiss bank accounts just in case the people finally get fed up and throw him out.

While I consider it a privilege to be able to live in a free society and express my opinions, I consider it a pity that Jordanians cannot publicly demand more of their monarchy without fear of retribution.

Well, Yasser Arafat lives a very simple life, actually. His wife comes from a rich family. Also, although this is not a subject I wish to get into here, there is far less corruption in the Palestinian Authority than Israel and its supporters make out to be. It is a means for the latter to justify the decimation of the PA , Palestinian infratructure, and continue to deny the Palestinians their right to statehood. Corruption is a problem in authoritarian regimes period. And the PA is far more democractic than many states in the region. Israeli politicians (a country which receives close to 10 billion in aid and guarantees from the US alone every year, in addition to preferntial trade status from the EU) too are tainted with corruption. Look at the recent scandals surrounding Sharon and his sons.

I agree with your last paragraph completely.

Sean .~

 

[micas]

I AM LOVED THAT MY FULLISH TOPIC BECAME A SERIOUS TOPIC..

GO ON ................THIS IS VERY WONDERFUL AND LEARNING CONVERSATION. :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :flower:

 

[Asma2]

Originally posted by micas@Jan 5th, 2004 - 7:28 pm
I AM LOVED THAT MY FULLISH TOPIC BECAME A SERIOUS TOPIC..

Yes, me too. I we all can be really happy that we can freely express our opinions.

 

[Bluebelle]

micas, what about Jordanian people shoes? Are you surprise that they have shoes? Oh, right, different from Rania s one.

That's not true and u know it. :flower:

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by kiarasecretagent@Jan 5th, 2004 - 8:15 pm

micas, what about Jordanian people shoes? Are you surprise that they have shoes? Oh, right, different from Rania s one.

That's not true and u know it. :flower:

Oooh, those are not pretty feet!! Thanks for the laugh though.

Sean. ~

 

[micas]

I love your sense of humer :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

Go on posting .................( Rania shose or what you want you thing stay good in this topic ) :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

 

[madonna23]

can't the jordanian parliament limit the royal family's spending? they should be able to...this is of course if the family's money comes from taxes, aid money, etc. that belongs to the jordanian people...

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by madonna23@Jan 6th, 2004 - 1:53 pm
can't the jordanian parliament limit the royal family's spending?  they should be able to...this is of course if the family's money comes from taxes, aid money, etc. that belongs to the jordanian people...

Jordan is not a democarcy. The Kig's regime is all powerful. There wasn't even a Parliament for two years, as it had been shut down by Abdullah. In any event, the RF does the Bedouin tribal leaders in Parliament favours and, in return, they vote the way the RF wants. Quid pro quo.

Also, all of the money does not come from the civil list. There are investments etc. (but the money originally came from the people) But, as I and another poster pointed out (either in this thread or another), corruption amongst the RF and the ruling elite is endemic. Jordan has often been chastised by the international financial institutions for this. The RF also facilitated smuggling into Iraq during the sanction years and according to Chalabi, he had close ties with former Crown Prince Hassan of Jordan. Chalabi, as you may know, was convicted by a Jordanian court for stealing hundreds of millions (actually, closer to billions) from the Jordanian bank he headed. He is a former Iraqi national and favourite of the Pentagon. He now sits on the Iraqi governing council. According to him he was set-up <snort> and that he escaped Jordan in the back of a palace car with Prince Hassan at the wheels.

 

[Asma2]

Originally posted by Sean.~+Jan 6th, 2004 - 2:07 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sean.~ @ Jan 6th, 2004 - 2:07 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-madonna23@Jan 6th, 2004 - 1:53 pm
can't the jordanian parliament limit the royal family's spending?  they should be able to...this is of course if the family's money comes from taxes, aid money, etc. that belongs to the jordanian people...

Jordan is not a democarcy. The Kig's regime is all powerful. There wasn't even a Parliament for two years, as it had been shut down by Abdullah. In any event, the RF does the Bedouin tribal leaders in Parliament favours and, in return, they vote the way the RF wants. Quid pro quo.

Also, all of the money does not come from the civil list. There are investments etc. (but the money originally came from the people) But, as I and another poster pointed out (either in this thread or another), corruption amongst the RF and the ruling elite is endemic. Jordan has often been chastised by the international financial institutions for this. The RF also facilitated smuggling into Iraq during the sanction years and according to Chalabi, he had close ties with former Crown Prince Hassan of Jordan. Chalabi, as you may know, was convicted by a Jordanian court for stealing hundreds of millions (actually, closer to billions) from the Jordanian bank he headed. He is a former Iraqi national and favourite of the Pentagon. He now sits on the Iraqi governing council. According to him he was set-up <snort> and that he escaped Jordan in the back of a palace car with Prince Hassan at the wheels. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you Sean.


The problem is ones money are in those third World countries, we do not have control ever them. There is no control system. Just recently, we could all read that American forces find donations from United Nation in Uday Saddam Hussein house. The aid was for school and was 5years old simply sitting in his house.

 

[Asma2]

Originally posted by kiarasecretagent@Jan 5th, 2004 - 8:15 pm

micas, what about Jordanian people shoes? Are you surprise that they have shoes? Oh, right, different from Rania s one.

That's not true and u know it. :flower:

You can not get better.

 

[madonna23]

there has been much criticism lately, as i'm sure we've all noticed, of rania's lavish lifestyle and of the jordan royal family's extravagence. i think the majority of us agree that this is not appropriate for a monarchy of a third world country.

however, i don't particularly see the difference between rania or asma assad or lalla salma or lalla meryam as far as extravagence is concerned. they all wear designer clothing. they all have expensive handbags and shoes. they all go on vacations to exotic locales. and yet there is not much criticism of asma or salma or meryam...so i don't think you can blame the jordanian's people general dislike of rania on her clothing.

on the other hand, i think the problem lies with her turning away of sorts from jordan and middle east. it has to do with, in my opinion, of her catering herself to the west...that would be okay if jordan was a western nation but its not. its not even close to it. personally, i feel that rania's interviews, countless photo shoots with harper's bazaar, vogue, and vanity fair, frequent trips to the united states, london, france, etc. and a seemingly obsession with her image are the problem.

sure a first lady can be stylish...there's no law against that...but when a first lady focuses only on that and abandon's the needs of her people then you have a problem.

i think when you look at asma, salma, and meryam that becomes even more clear. all are just as stylish as rania but yet each one of them comes across as caring about something more than that...something more meaningful.

 

[Alexandria]

I think that the reason Rania may receive more criticism than the other ladies you mentioned (Lalla Salma or Lalla Meryam) is because Rania receives much more press than these two other ladies. At least from a Western point of view that is my opinion. If I didn't belong to this forum, I would have no idea who Lalla Salma or Lalla Meryam are, but I would know a little bit at least about Queen Rania as I've seen and read interviews by and about her in various publications and media outlets, including CNN, NBC, Harper's Bazaar, Vogue and Vanity Fair. There has been little to none mention of the other two ladies in any of these media outlets.

They may all spend lavishly on clothes, purses, shoes and jewellery, etc., while the majority of the people in their countries are suffering, but Queen Rania gets the most ink spilled about her of these two other ladies. I might even gamble and say that she gets the most press of any Middle Eastern woman.

 

[madonna23]

the thing is...she gets the press for a reason...i live in the states and rania's been on oprah, good morning america, etc. etc. but is that really her place? is that where her people want her to be? the reason we don't see asma and salma that much is because they're not doing model-like photo shoots for vogue...western media covers rania because she caters to them...

perhaps we can say that asma doesn't get coverage because she's the first lady of syria and syria does not have good relations with the west. what about morocco? morocco has EXTREMELY good relations at least with the states and yet we dont see salma and meryam doing photo shoots.

 

[amina1]

Someone told me that King Abdullah has the western attitudes because he was raised by his English mother so he does not care that much about religion and queen rania was one of the girls who like to dress up so now she is a queen she may buy whatever she wants to and King Muhammed is cares somehow about religion and most ladies in morocco do cover themselves and practice islam.

 

[amina1]

Someone told me that King Abdullah has the western attitudes because he was raised by his English mother so he does not care that much about religion and queen rania was one of the girls who like to dress up so now she is a queen she may buy whatever she wants to and King Muhammed cares somehow about religion and most ladies in morocco do cover themselves and practice islam so it is not wise to let his wife be like queen rania but he does let her travel so who knows maybe in the future he will give her more to do!

 

[nicole]

Originally posted by madonna23@Jan 7th, 2004 - 4:47 pm
the thing is...she gets the press for a reason...i live in the states and rania's been on oprah, good morning america, etc. etc. but is that really her place? is that where her people want her to be? the reason we don't see asma and salma that much is because they're not doing model-like photo shoots for vogue...western media covers rania because she caters to them...

perhaps we can say that asma doesn't get coverage because she's the first lady of syria and syria does not have good relations with the west. what about morocco? morocco has EXTREMELY good relations at least with the states and yet we dont see salma and meryam doing photo shoots.

I have never been one to approve of Rania's image obession and money spending habits, but I have to admit that she does send a more realistic image of what most Jordanian Muslim woman are like--how they don't cover their hair, how they can be equal to their husbands and can be very powerful. I really appriciate the different representaion than the sterotyplical one that's been more prominent in the west so I have to admit that I some good comes out of her interviews with western media.

 

[Lia]

I have Arab friends and they have mentioned that Queen Rania is not so much loved in the middle East as we all may think. Jordanians (not all) do not approve of her way of dressing and "exposure" to the West while Jordan has internal problems.
On the other hand i really like her and she has made Jordan "famous"or more known. She has tackled issues and her name is used by many charity forums, maybe the other ladies are jealous and gossip about her

 

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by Lia@Jan 7th, 2004 - 7:03 pm
I have Arab friends and they have mentioned that Queen Rania is not so much loved in the middle East as we all may think. Jordanians (not all) do not approve of her way of dressing and "exposure" to the West while Jordan has internal problems.
On the other hand i really like her and she has made Jordan "famous"or more known. She has tackled issues and her name is used by many charity forums, maybe the other ladies are jealous and gossip about her

Jordan has always been well known for its strategic importance. Sure, she has made Jordan more well known to the average person by her way of dress, but having a glamerous, well known Queen does little to ameliorate the lives of the average Jordanian. At the end of the day, it is what they think tha matters. And people are not jealous of her. I think that is too simplistic a conclusion. They dislike her for more substantive reasons.

Sean

 

[Lia]

Originally posted by Sean.~@Jan 7th, 2004 - 7:07 pm
Jordan has always been well known for its strategic importance. Sure, she has made Jordan more well known to the average person by her way of dress, but having a glamerous, well known Queen does little to ameliorate the lives of the average Jordanian. At the end of the day, it is what they think tha matters. And people are not jealous of her. I think that is too simplistic a conclusion. They dislike her for more substantive reasons.

Sean

With my friends we discussed the reasons that Jordanians didn't really like her and its true they are deeper than jealousy etc. The last part of my post was simply to mention Royal Ladies from other countries. (in few words a joke!!)

 

[Alexandria]

I was wondering if anyone can tell me some of the charities/organizations or causes that Rania represents in Jordan or internationally?

For example, in the latter part of her life, Princess Diana championed the eradication of landmines, a cause which Queen Noor later picked up and supported.

I think I've read in some threads here that Queen Rania is known for supporting women's rights in Jordan, what about other causes?

 

[Bubbette]

if you go to her website you can get all the info.

 

[madonna23]

as far as rania being an example of a powerful muslim woman, haven't lalla meryam and asma assad done the same? they wear modern clothing and are visible to the public eye and chair many commitees...another example is sheika mozah who has opened many schools in qatar and chaired countless women's organizations even while wearing a veil (proof that a woman can have rights and wear the veil at the same time)...

these women however don't seek attention; they don't do photo shoots; they don't flaunt themselves in front of cameras.

the best thing that can explain my feelings about rania is the poll that just closed about what rania's greatest achievement so far was. an overwhelming majority voted for the "changing stereotypes about arab women" slot. and i agree. she has done that. but what else has she done? and haven't lalla meryam and asma assad done the same? just because they don't get the same amount of press coverage doesn't mean they haven't...

but this changing stereotypes thing has not benefited anyone except a couple of people who now say "oh, so arab women can dress like that...oh." has that benefited the average jordanian middle class person? has that improved his lifestyle? has that helped him get a job? has that helped him support his family and bring food to the table?

perhaps my criticism of rania is too harsh...after all, she is not the king. but it is because of what the media makes of her - as if she is spending all her time helping her people when she's really not.

 

[Humera]

I'd like to mention one thing regarding the whole concept of how Rania has changed the stereotype/image of arab/muslim women.
Just because she wears fashionable western clothing does not automatically make her a role model to Muslim women who dont wish to be stereotyped. There are countless women out there who do cover their head and dont wear western clothing but are just as modern, indedpendent and educated as Rania, if not more so. I have trouble with some people assuming that just because a woman covers her head or wears traditional clothing, she's somehow not as modern as women who dont. Although a lot of arab women dont wear their traditional clothing, there are many non-arab Muslim countries out there where women wear their traditional dress every single day and are just as modern and educated. Speaking from a personal perspective, in Pakistan the traditional shalwar-kameez is worn by all women and most men. Although women wear western outfits on occasions, the traditional dress has fortunately managed to survive over the years as the popular choice.
I would hate to think that Rania's fashionable clothing is all it takes for some people to believe that she's changed stereotypes of Arab/Muslim women. Education, independence, and confidence are more important criterias I think.

 

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by Lia@Jan 7th, 2004 - 7:03 pm
I have Arab friends and they have mentioned that Queen Rania is not so much loved in the middle East as we all may think. Jordanians (not all) do not approve of her way of dressing and "exposure" to the West while Jordan has internal problems.
On the other hand i really like her and she has made Jordan "famous"or more known. She has tackled issues and her name is used by many charity forums, maybe the other ladies are jealous and gossip about her

A few of my Jordanian friends have told me that the people in Jordan think that she's too snobby. That's the general impression that I got from them.

As for the amount of money that she spends on clothes. I'm sure that K Abdullah spends just as much on his suits and ties as she does on her dresses and purses. Men's clothing isn't as cheap as we all might think it is.

I don't know much about her to criticize. I just believe that she's making a mark for Arab women in her country and in the rest of the M. E.

 

[karolinabraganza]

the problem is: rania publicises herself like a product. she goes to davos economics meeting (top international business people) to attract investors to jordan. the criticism is that this is taking care of the situation from above and not touching in any respect of her people, the palestinians that have been living in camps for generations.
indeed, to appear on ophra mirrors exactely this image: we are a western country, no poverty, american celebrety a la jacky o that mixes in husband's politics...exacetly what foreign investors want to see

i think it is probably important for jordan to get those investors ( i cant judge it in the end, i am not living there) but it is not, not at all ranias job to advertise her country in this way. its her husband's job. i am not sure whether one has to challenge ones country's ideals and traditions that much as rania does... look at lalla salma, i think she does the transition from traditional to modern with slightly less ado.
i sometimes have the feeling rania is much ado about nothing, or not much