The Prince and Princess of Prussia: August 2011-


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The Prince of Prussia attended the 21st edition of the „Award for understanding and tolerance“ at the Jewish Museum in Berlin on November 12:


** Pic ** gallery **
 
Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, head of the House of Hohenzollern, and Andreas Mattfeldt, member of the Bundestag of Langwedel, founded a brewery. "Preußens Pilsener", the "Beer of the Hohenzollern", has been on the market since April 2017. Now, the two shareholders are presenting it at Bremen's three-day food fair, "Gastro Ivent", which lasts until Monday.
https://www.kreiszeitung.de/lokales...r-bremer-fachmesse-gastro-ivent-92055812.html
 
Congrats and hope for the best for the prince and his new entrepreneurial goals. In some way businesses and industries are the modern equivalent of medieval territorial wars. The more they expand territories, local or overseas, the better the income for the former ruling family.
 
Blog Real said:
Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia, head of the House of Hohenzollern, and Andreas Mattfeldt, member of the Bundestag of Langwedel, founded a brewery. "Preußens Pilsener", the "Beer of the Hohenzollern", has been on the market since April 2017.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a very good idea! And they can market this beer worldwide with huge opportunities.

The Hohenzollerns always had good beer: Frederick Miller aka Friedrich Müller from the famous Miller Brewing Company was the brew master at the court of the Prince of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen before he went to America and became one of the richest men in the whole wide World.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Miller
 
Prince Georg Friedrich partly has stopped Restitution Claims

A new turn in the Saga about all the royal Prussian art pieces and castles, that were perhaps illegally expropriated by the communists after World War 2.

As we discussed here in the thread, Prince Georg Friedrich as the 'Chef of the House' Hohenzollern started a while ago a legal campaign, to get the property back.

Now rbb24.de, the regional public television outfit (trustworthy), reports, that the Prince has taken back a part of his restitution claims.
https://www.rbb24.de/kultur/beitrag...digung-klagen-entschaedigung-brandenburg.html
(Only in German, sorry!)

Alledgedly the Prince refrains from sueing for the restitution of 4 000 objects.

The legal court in question says, it is unaware of such a step. But the Prince has given an interview to the daily WELT, that confirms everything.
https://www.welt.de/geschichte/plus...riedrich-Prinz-von-Preussen-im-Interview.html
(Only in German and behind a paywall, sorry!)

The Prince there claims, he partly stopped sueing to open the way for a new debatte about the issue.
 
Sorry, I could not find the right thread, hopefully the moderators can put it right.
in two German important newspapers "Zeit" and "Welt" it was published today that Georg Friedrich von Preussen finally decided to finish his claims of reparation for lost family fortunes after WWII. That has been a very long lasting issue here, a very long judicial procedure. He finished it now.
Sorry the articles are only in German. if anybody is interested, I could translate it.

https://www.zeit.de/kultur/2023-03/...on-preussen-hohenzollern-entschaedigung-klage
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hereditarytitles said:
Sorry, I could not find the right thread, hopefully the moderators can put it right.
in two German important newspapers "Zeit" and "Welt" it was published today that Georg Friedrich von Preussen finally decided to finish his claims of reparation for lost family fortunes after WWII. That has been a very long lasting issue here, a very long judicial procedure. He finished it now.
Sorry the articles are only in German. if anybody is interested, I could translate it.

https://www.zeit.de/kultur/2023-03/...on-preussen-hohenzollern-entschaedigung-klage
Click to expand...
I’m interested, could you kindly translate it for me
 
The comments are, to put it mildly, not particularly positive towards Georg Friedrich von Preussen!

- I know too little about the background of all this to write a good summary though.
 
I find the reasoning a bit curious. Because CP Wilhelm supposedly was a Nazi-supporter the family goods can not be returned now? With that logic they could have confiscated properties of millions of German citizens, many of whom will have been a more enthusiastic supporter than the crown prince.

I understand that politically it is not popular to give money to people who already have a priviliged life compared to most. Though I am sure many trinklets would end up in an auction house had they been returned to the family, a financial compensation for these pieces would have been in order IMO.

I am not sure if any other families received compensations for lost properties in East Germany.
 
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Muhler said:
The comments are, to put it mildly, not particularly positive towards Georg Friedrich von Preussen!

- I know too little about the background of all this to write a good summary though.
Click to expand...
I understand that from some articles a few years ago. It’s not shocking especially because the formerly East German state of Brandenburg since being part of the Soviet occupied zone has been a stronghold for leftists who are definitely against his claims.
 
Marengo said:
I find the reasoning a bit curious. Because CP Wilhelm supposedly was a Nazi-supporter the family goods can not be returned now? With that logic they could have confiscated properties of millions of German citizens, many of whom will have been a more enthusiastic supporter than the crown prince.

I understand that politically it is not popular to give money to people who already have a priviliged life compared to most. Though I am sure many trinklets would end up in an auction house had they been returned to the family, a financial compensation for these pieces would have been in order IMO.

I am not sure if any other families received compensations for lost properties in East Germany.
Click to expand...
I doubt that Georg-Friedrich will sell because the remainder of the artefacts that are still around still are in his possession and many have been loaned out to museums. Georg-Friedrich hasn’t sold any important artefacts since 2012 (beau sancy diamond) and the Wummerhof. There have been a few families that received monetary compensation I.e- a branch of the Wettin dynasty, the Schonborg-Hartensteins bought back some castles,
 
hereditarytitles said:
Sorry, I could not find the right thread, hopefully the moderators can put it right.
in two German important newspapers "Zeit" and "Welt" it was published today that Georg Friedrich von Preussen finally decided to finish his claims of reparation for lost family fortunes after WWII. That has been a very long lasting issue here, a very long judicial procedure. He finished it now.
Sorry the articles are only in German. if anybody is interested, I could translate it.

https://www.zeit.de/kultur/2023-03/...on-preussen-hohenzollern-entschaedigung-klage
Click to expand...

If someone could kindly elaborate: so GF dropped the reparations claims, or the court ruled against him?
 
Marengo said:
I find the reasoning a bit curious. Because CP Wilhelm supposedly was a Nazi-supporter the family goods can not be returned now? With that logic they could have confiscated properties of millions of German citizens, many of whom will have been a more enthusiastic supporter than the crown prince.
Click to expand...
That is in the Contract of the german Unity that no Property can be given back to those whose ancestors helped the nazis.
Interesting there have been other greman noble Families which staunch nazis like the father of the present Fürst of Waldeck.-Pyrmont for example, but their property was in West Germany so they were expropriated as the Families with possessions in East Germany.
 
Prinsara said:
If someone could kindly elaborate: so GF dropped the reparations claims, or the court ruled against him?
Click to expand...

The Prince dropped 'em partly, to create a better atmosphere in the still ongoing dispute.

I searched at Google, if there are English articles about the issue: Yes, two until now - and one in The Times, which I do not link, because it is behind a paywall.

https://worldnationnews.com/the-hei...es-the-judicial-way-to-claim-his-inheritance/

https://www.indonewyork.com/breakin...enzollern-withdraw-complaints-for-h75813.html
 
An article in English from Deutsche Welle:

[...]

Prince Georg Friedrich Ferdinand on Thursday said that he had abandoned attempts to secure compensation from the state that date back to 2014.

[...]

What are the arguments against compensation?
The case hinged on whether Crown Prince Wilhelm, son of Kaiser Wilhelm II and great-grandfather of Prince George, provided "substantive" support to Adolf Hitler's Nazi regime. Under German law, proof of such support is grounds for refusing compensation.

Wilhelm II went into exile in the Netherlands at the end of World War I in 1918.

"Even if I am not an historian or lawyer myself, it cannot be shown in my view that my great-grandfather offered the regime substantive abetment, even if he perhaps wanted to," Prince George said.

Historians from German universities are divided on whether Crown Prince Wihlelm significantly aided the Nazi regime, though most concur that he wanted to.

"The former crown prince was politically incapable of providing substantive abetment to the Nazis, although he wanted to do so at times," Professor Lothar Machtan said.

[...]

What did the prince say about his decision?
"We will give our best possible support to a critical review of our family history," the prince said.

He said that he hoped that the focus of the debate would move away from Crown Prince Wilhelm, looking at the Hohenzollern family history in its diversity.

The prince said that in dropping the claim he hoped to "open the way for an unencumbered historical debate on the role of my family in the 20th Century following the end of the monarchy."

Prince Georg said that while he believed it could not be clearly proven that Crown Prince Wilhelm actively promoted Nazism, it was clear that his great-grandfather had sought close ties with the regime.

"Anyone who panders to right-wing extremism cannot be a tradition-setter for our house," he declared.
Click to expand...

Full article: https://www.dw.com/en/german-prince-drops-property-compensation-lawsuit/a-64937096
 
I have made a translation of the "Zeit" article:

Headline : Georg Friedrich of Prussia has given up claims against public authorities

Georg F. has given up his claims to the return of thousands of art objects. He wants to pave the way for an "unencumbered debate" According to the House of Hohenzollern Chief he has withdrawn two lawsuits against the public sector for compensation in the millions. The administrative court in Potsdam informed "Zeit Online" that corresponding press releases had not yet been received. "But you can be sure that I will stand by this"
he said while attending a historical discussion about his family's role during National Socialism. The federal government and the states of Brandenburg and Berlin have been negotiating with the family since 2014 about the return of numerous art objects and compensation. According to the law, anyone who "provided significant support" to the Nazi system does not receive compensation. Regarding this question the role of the great grandfather, Wilhelm Crown Prince of Prussia is decisive. The talks are on hold after Brandenburg resumed a process that had been running since 2015 about expropriated properties such as Rheinsberg Castle, Bornstedt Crown Estate and several villas in Potsdam. Brandenburg had rejected compensation on the basis of the unification treaty. The Hohenzollern had sued against this. We are talking about 1,2 million Euros. The second lawsuit concerns among other things, inventory from the Rheinsberg and Cecilienhof palaces in Potsdam. In this case the federal state of Brandenburg had also refused compensation due to the same reasons.
Goerg Friedrich says: "The actions of my great grandfather who died in 1951, are relevant for the assignment of 4000 out of more than 10.000 objects" Therefore he has made the decision to give up his claim for those 4000 objects and corresponding compensation. "I would like to pave the way for an unencumbered debate in historical contexts on the role of my family in the 20th century. Anyone who can be related to right-wing extremism cannot contribute to the tradition of the House of Hohenzollern".

The translation isn't perfect, but hopefully the facts are correct.
 
Last edited:
Muhler said:
The comments are, to put it mildly, not particularly positive towards Georg Friedrich von Preussen!

- I know too little about the background of all this to write a good summary though.
Click to expand...


Forget about the comments in "Zeit". This is a "left/green" paper, and according to that is the opinion of those who are writing comments. The same article was in "Welt" which is conservative (I refuse to name it "right"), but I couldn't post it because of the paywall.

I usually read both papers online to get an impression about opinions in Germany.
 
There are more articles about this today. One of a paper which is published in the area of the "Hohenzollern Castle", in German language. It is not so interesting for foreign language papers especially the details. I have a feeling though that this process will not end now, because there are still lots of issues open.

https://www.zak.de/Nachrichten/Hohe...Klagen-auf-Entschaedigung-zurueck-155034.html

I also found old articles and copies of letters from the Kaiser to Hitler , there was friendly correspondence, no doubt. That is also probably the reason why Georg Friedrich wants to finish that discussion, I guess.
 
It sounds as though he dropped it because further investigation and publicity into CP Wilhelm was not going to end well for the family? Is that correct?

The Kaiser was an opportunist in exile, not that great a person, an antisemite surrounded by antisemites...but the letter where he repudiates Hitler is still a good one.
 
Prinsara said:
It sounds as though he dropped it because further investigation and publicity into CP Wilhelm was not going to end well for the family? Is that correct?

The Kaiser was an opportunist in exile, not that great a person, an antisemite surrounded by antisemites...but the letter where he repudiates Hitler is still a good one.
Click to expand...

It needs a historian for interpretation of letters, statements etc. Most of the Kaisers correspondence is documented in German Federal Archives and much has been researched. Too much really to discuss in this forum.

One thing is obvious, he wasn't the only noble or royal who had some kind of sympathy with the devil (Hitler) because they probably hoped that some of their power would be installed again after the abolishment of the monarchy. The principle of "one leader" as during the monarchy and as it was the "1000 year Reich" idea of the Nazis probably had an appeal.

Understandable that all nobility and espcially the Kaiser and his family didn't like to be abolished.

I don't know about a letter where he repudiates Hitler, where did you read this?
 
Due to the recent political development in Germany with fascist party winning more than 20% in local elections, mostly in East Germany the whole thing was a very risky attempt of GF. Though his claim is legal, as he is a citizen with same rights like any other the people's mood is against him. No political party wants to risk this. Its like a lithning a peace of dynamite.
Georg Friedrich was simply too late with his claim. The political and social progress has changed since the wall fell and more rapidly during the pandemic and since Germany learns that Merkel left a real mess in most innergerman matters like education, economy.....
(Just using her name because most of you might not know the abbrev. of political party here)

His grandfather who raised GF was a widely respected figure in Germany and should have done this earlier. Georg Friedrich had to take over at very young age and tried ever since, the authorities are slowly here.
Now with the strong social rift between west and east and inflation ...... its almost impossible to get away with it in public opinion. Most Germans had not shed a tear 30 y ago, but 2023 no way, even conservatives would not think positive.
And don't forget, Germany is a republic, the best thing GF has now tried is to make people forget about his claims and hope , like GF put it himself "the role of his tribe is interpreted newly and cannot feed itself from ancestors who flinged along with Nazis."
And this is ONlY interesting for historians, don't think his family is ever mentioned in school classes or has any role in public life. Yellow press picks up few pictures when GF&wife join VIPs for an event but beside this the percentage of interest for Hohenzollern is below zero.
This forum might be the biggest crowd of people ever interested in Preussen affairs, it simply doesn't exist in Germany. Germany is now 4 th generation after the last monarch.
 
valeas said:
Due to the recent political development in Germany with fascist party winning more than 20% in local elections, mostly in East Germany the whole thing was a very risky attempt of GF. Though his claim is legal, as he is a citizen with same rights like any other the people's mood is against him. No political party wants to risk this. Its like a lithning a peace of dynamite.
Georg Friedrich was simply too late with his claim. The political and social progress has changed since the wall fell and more rapidly during the pandemic and since Germany learns that Merkel left a real mess in most innergerman matters like education, economy.....
(Just using her name because most of you might not know the abbrev. of political party here)

His grandfather who raised GF was a widely respected figure in Germany and should have done this earlier. Georg Friedrich had to take over at very young age and tried ever since, the authorities are slowly here.
Now with the strong social rift between west and east and inflation ...... its almost impossible to get away with it in public opinion. Most Germans had not shed a tear 30 y ago, but 2023 no way, even conservatives would not think positive.
And don't forget, Germany is a republic, the best thing GF has now tried is to make people forget about his claims and hope , like GF put it himself "the role of his tribe is interpreted newly and cannot feed itself from ancestors who flinged along with Nazis."
And this is ONlY interesting for historians, don't think his family is ever mentioned in school classes or has any role in public life. Yellow press picks up few pictures when GF&wife join VIPs for an event but beside this the percentage of interest for Hohenzollern is below zero.
This forum might be the biggest crowd of people ever interested in Preussen affairs, it simply doesn't exist in Germany. Germany is now 4 th generation after the last monarch.
Click to expand...
Louis Ferdinand did try to get compensation or try to get back properties, but even when he tried there were problems. The cases have been ongoing for years with no success in a few notable issues. Not to mention, his legal tussles with his uncles which ended years ago. I think for now, keeping his head low and extricating himself from the issue is the best thing to do.
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
Louis Ferdinand did try to get compensation or try to get back properties, but even when he tried there were problems. The cases have been ongoing for years with no success in a few notable issues. Not to mention, his legal tussles with his uncles which ended years ago. I think for now, keeping his head low and extricating himself from the issue is the best thing to do.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you are wrong. Confusing the princes, Louis F. was the head of family until his death 1994, GF his grandson is since the chief of family and the one who claimed.

To be fair the law which enabled him to was only given after LF's death but being prepared for a long time before BUT LF suffered from serious sickness for a long time before his death and might not have been able to proceed things shortly before his death and again GF was very young when taking over and IMO waited much too long until 2014!!!
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
Louis Ferdinand did try to get compensation or try to get back properties, but even when he tried there were problems. The cases have been ongoing for years with no success in a few notable issues. Not to mention, his legal tussles with his uncles which ended years ago. I think for now, keeping his head low and extricating himself from the issue is the best thing to do.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you are wrong. Confusing the princes, Louis F. was the head of family until his death 1994, GF his grandson is since the chief of family and the one who claimed.

To be fair the law which enabled him to was only given after LF's death but being prepared for a long time before BUT LF suffered from serious sickness for a long time before his death and might not have been able to proceed things shortly before his death and again GF was very young when taking over and IMO waited much too long until 2014!!!
 
valeas said:
Sorry, but you are wrong. Confusing the princes, Louis F. was the head of family until his death 1994, GF his grandson is since the chief of family and the one who claimed.

To be fair the law which enabled him to was only given after LF's death but being prepared for a long time before BUT LF suffered from serious sickness for a long time before his death and might not have been able to proceed things shortly before his death and again GF was very young when taking over and IMO waited much too long until 2014!!!
Click to expand...
I am certainly not wrong because I am aware of who is who. Louis Ferdinand is Georg Friedrich’s grandfather, and I think I read somewhere that he actually did try to initiate proceedings but probably his illness as you say prevented him from fully going through the process. He attempted to do recover lost properties but wasn’t successful. However his efforts led to changes in the compensation law
 
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