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CrownPrinceLorenzo 03-05-2006 11:36 AM

If The Duke of Edinburgh outlived The Queen...
 
And The Prince of Wales is crowned King...

Will his father, The Duke of Edinburgh, still take precedence over him?

Like will people list the royal family like this:

HRH The Duke Edinburgh
HM The King
HM The Queen
HRH The Prince of Wales
etc...

Like that?

BeatrixFan 03-05-2006 11:43 AM

I think he'd come just under Charles and Camilla. He wouldn't outrank the King and Queen thats for definate.

caroline mathilda 03-05-2006 12:21 PM

After the Queen dies, the Duke of Edinburgh would definitely come after Charles in the protocol list. He would be in a similar position to that of the Queen Mother after GeorgeVI's death.

branchg 03-05-2006 12:34 PM

King Charles III
Queen Camilla
The Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales
The Prince Henry

MOLEY 03-05-2006 12:54 PM

I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

branchg 03-05-2006 01:41 PM

William doesn't need to be "crowned" Prince of Wales. Once the Sovereign creates him Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, that's it. The ceremony is more for political purposes and isn't necessary.

Chris922 03-05-2006 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOLEY
I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

Why would he not be created Prince of Wales after his father ascends the throne? I can't imagine Charles not eventually creating his eldest son Prince of Wales.

MOLEY 03-05-2006 02:26 PM

Then we would have an uncrowned prince.
The title is not a long standing tradition to bestow on the heir to the throne. I truly belive charles will be the last prince of wales, as in 1969 there were quite a few protests against an english prince having the title, and now with the welsh nationals having an even greater voice and all that has happend since develoution in the uk, with groups within the kingdoms and principalities within the uk now wanting even greater seperation from each other i very much doubt another prince of wales.

Claire 03-05-2006 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOLEY
I would be very suprised if william is crowned prince of wales, he would be automatically duke of cornwall etc...

Don't really follow the only way Prince William will receive a Dukedom of anything will be IF he marries before the Queen dies. That way the Prince of Wales title will still be occupied by his father. When Prince Charles becames King it is very likely that plans for William's crowning will be undertaken immediately. Subsidary titles will probably be granted although I doubt they will mean anything.

I think the way the way the order of Precedence (for male royals) will be as following:
1. King Charles (George VIII)
4. Prince Philip (Duke of Edinburgh)
2. Prince William (Prince of Wales)
3. Prince Harry (Duke of Something, possibly Clarence)
4. Prince Andrew, Duke of York
5. Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex.

I think that Prince Philip will move out of Buckingham Palace as soon as the Queen dies and move in with Prince Edward. That way he won't have to see Charles that often

Iluvbertie 03-05-2006 04:00 PM

When Charles becomes King William will automatically become Duke of Cornwall and inherit most of Charles other titles. They are the automatic titles of the eldest son of the monarch. If he marries before the Queen dies he will probably be given another dukedom and therefore end up with two - as happened to George V who was created Duke of York in the reign of Queen Victoria but on her death immediately also became Duke of Cornwall. When he opened the first Australian parliament he was correctly referred to as the Duke of Cornwall and York.

It will be up to Charles to decide when, or even if, he will create William Prince of Wales. Edward VII waited nearly 10 months before creating George V Prince of Wales and the present Queen waited 6 years before creating Charles POW although Charles had been Duke of Cornwall since the early hours of 6th February 1952 when she became Queen.

Whether William will ever be invested as POW again is up to the new King and Parliament and certainly wouldn't take place until after the coronation of his father. I doubt if one would take place because of his age. It is not something that has been done all that often. I can find no reference to such an investiture prior to 1911 meaning that it has only happened twice in the long history of the title (since the middle ages).

As to Philip's precedence that will be up to Charles as well. The position of a male consort outliving a Queen consort hasn't happened to my knowledge except for Philip of Spain - who was a king in his own right and William III likewise.

I hope that Charles would acknowledge Philip's position as the consort of the previous monarch and award him the precedence accordingly - ie the same precedence the Queen Mum had during the reign of her daughter.

Royal Fan 03-05-2006 04:00 PM

Are they not close ?? and would Bagsho tPark Have Enough room also this may sound a bit morbid but it was discussed on another board and was wondering where will Philip the Queen William and Harry and The Prince and Princess of Wales be interred?? Just curious. :)

ysbel 03-05-2006 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
Don't really follow the only way Prince William will receive a Dukedom of anything will be IF he marries before the Queen dies.

When Charles becomes King, William automatically become Duke of Cornwall so no, he doesn't have to get married to get that title.

But if he is to get a dukedom before that happens, the general practice has been to grant a dukedom when a royal prince gets married.

Although it has been tradition to grant dukedoms to the younger sons of the monarch, somehow I don't think Harry will get a dukedom. Edward assumed the title of Earl of Wessex rather than a royal dukedom so I think the BRF is trying to scale themselves down.

ysbel 03-05-2006 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOLEY
The title is not a long standing tradition to bestow on the heir to the throne.

It depends on how long you consider long-standing. Edward I created his son the first Prince of Wales in the 1200s. So the title has an 800 year history with the heir to the English throne.

There may be resistance by the Welsh to creating a new Prince of Wales. Edward I only gave his son the title to prevent any native Welsh from taking the title and challenging his authority in Wales, but that was 800 years ago and I haven't heard much controversy about the title in Wales nowadays.

MOLEY 03-05-2006 04:23 PM

I was chatting to protesters during the royal visit outside the welsh assembly about this very subject last week (and at caernarfon castle just before christmas) and for these groups of people it is very much a subject they were passionate about, i am far from being a welsh nationlist but i can agree on their arguement. maybe it could be a subject for the assembly to discuss in the future, as there are a lot of nationlits working as A.M's

Iluvbertie 03-05-2006 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Fan
Are they not close ?? and would Bagsho tPark Have Enough room also this may sound a bit morbid but it was discussed on another board and was wondering where will Philip the Queen William and Harry and The Prince and Princess of Wales be interred?? Just curious. :)

1. Bageshot Hall would be plenty big enough to house the Wessexes and Prince Philip. He may not want to live with any of his children of course or he may prefer one of the others.

2. The Queen and Prince Philip will be buried in St George's Chapel Windsor in the same crypt as George VI and the Queen Mum. When that little chapel was built for George VI it was large enough for 6 coffins. The other two spaces were intended for Charles and his consort so presumably Charles and Camilla will also be buried there. That assumes that Charles outlives his mother.

3. The Frogmore Mausoleum is the usual resting place for other royals and where, at the moment I suspect that William and Harry would end up, if they die in the reign of the present monarch or in Charles' reign.

Of course Charles, William and Harry may chose to be buried elsewhere. e.g. Charles may ask to be buried at Highgrove. That is simply an idea and I have never read anything that suggests that he would do that.

branchg 03-05-2006 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysbel
Although it has been tradition to grant dukedoms to the younger sons of the monarch, somehow I don't think Harry will get a dukedom. Edward assumed the title of Earl of Wessex rather than a royal dukedom so I think the BRF is trying to scale themselves down.

It was agreed an earldom would be conferred at this time because the intention is for Charles to create him Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merinoth and Baron Greenwich after the death of The Queen and Prince Philip. The reason for this is both William and Harry will have their own peerages by the time their father becomes King and will not inherit their grandfather's titles.

Harry is likely to be created Duke of Cambridge upon marriage and William will probably be Duke of Clarence if he marries while The Queen is alive.

The real question is whether Harry's children will hold the titular dignity and rank of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK. I suspect they will if The Duke of York continues to adamantly insist his daughters remain HRH and Princesses. Otherwise, to issue new letters patent would not make any sense.

ysbel 03-05-2006 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOLEY
I was chatting to protesters during the royal visit outside the welsh assembly about this very subject last week (and at caernarfon castle just before christmas) and for these groups of people it is very much a subject they were passionate about, i am far from being a welsh nationlist but i can agree on their arguement. maybe it could be a subject for the assembly to discuss in the future, as there are a lot of nationlits working as A.M's

Well I could understand Welsh nationalists wanting to do away with a title that was 'stolen' from Wales but I think Wales would be shooting itself in the foot.

Having a Prince of Wales as heir to the throne gives Wales a lot more visibility on the international stage than it would have otherwise.

MOLEY 03-05-2006 06:35 PM

Yes ysbel i agree it does help promote wales in that way, as i i try to explain to people on my travels wales it is not a city in england.

Gutsy 03-05-2006 10:10 PM

Sveciae Rex
 
Wales as a Principality needs a "Prince": the fact it never was a kingdom is the reason it is the Welsh "Assembly" and not a "parliament" and the fact that the Red Dragon does not figure in the UK Arms nor in Royal Standard ( though IMO if the vestigial Crown connection with Northern Ireland every is ever abolished the Red Dragon might well find a home at last in the Heraldry of the UK.)
Immediately upon the accession of his father to the throne "HRH Prince William of Wales " would become "HRH Duke of Cornwall..etc."
The title of PoW is not automatic and need not be conferred upon the Heir Apparent de jure.

Alexandria 03-05-2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
I think that Prince Philip will move out of Buckingham Palace as soon as the Queen dies and move in with Prince Edward. That way he won't have to see Charles that often

Why would Prince Phillip have to move in with Edward and Sophie? Why couldn't he live somewhere on his own as the Queen Mother did in her final years?

And why would Philip have to/want to move away so that he wouldn't have to see Charles that often?

Am I missing on a riff between father and son? Or a favourtism for Edward (which is contrary to what I have read).


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