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-   -   What bothers you about Abdullah and Rania (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f103/what-bothers-you-about-abdullah-and-rania-8658.html)

Citizen2005 01-30-2006 12:14 PM

What bothers you about Abdullah and Rania
 
This same thread was created for Frederick and Mary of Denmark And LITTLE STAR posted over there"

" I don't think it's a leading title. There are plenty of people who don't buy into all the hype surrounding this couple, so it's only fair that there be 1 thread where they can express their views."

So I thought it is fair too to create at least ONE thread to give a chance to some to express their views and to balance the discussion about Rania and KA.


Submit your views here.

monamona 01-30-2006 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen2005
This same thread was created for Frederick and Mary of Denmark And LITTLE STAR posted over there"

" I don't think it's a leading title. There are plenty of people who don't buy into all the hype surrounding this couple, so it's only fair that there be 1 thread where they can express their views."

So I thought it is fair too to create at least ONE thread to give a chance to some to express their views and to balance the discussion about Rania and KA.


Submit your views here.

Fair enough. Fine by me for this thread to exist. :)

Princejohnny25 01-30-2006 03:00 PM

Wow these threads are popping up everywhere. The drama started in the British thread and it has spread. I dont have a problem with these types of threads because they show another side but I dont know how I feel about having this thread for the Jordanian King and Queen. For me, this thread could get very political and sensitive considering that the King is very involved in the government.

monamona 01-30-2006 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princejohnny25
Wow these threads are popping up everywhere. The drama started in the British thread and it has spread. I dont have a problem with these types of threads because they show another side but I dont know how I feel about having this thread for the Jordanian King and Queen. For me, this thread could get very political and sensitive considering that the King is very involved in the government.

this shows that there are negatives about the JRF but this forum for some reasons does not allow people to talk abou them.
Anyway,Stating the obvious, every royal house/family is particular and that a king or a queen really governs does not mean that one cannot post the opposite views on this royality. to have some integrity in this forum, i guess we should not restrict our posts only to clothes, makeup, shoes, belts..how many times a dress has been worn and all that....

This thread is a test for this forum's objectivity. :p

Avalon 01-30-2006 04:32 PM

Nothing, really. I love the couple of theirs very much. Great King and Queen, Ideal parents, involved in different humanitarian projects... I love King Abduallah and Queen Rania very much and nothing whatsoever bothers be about them.

Citizen2005 01-30-2006 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon
Nothing, really. I love the couple of theirs very much. Great King and Queen, Ideal parents, involved in different humanitarian projects... I love King Abduallah and Queen Rania very much and nothing whatsoever bothers be about them.

It is marvellous that you find this couple perfect;)

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:27 PM

I personally would like to thank Citizen005 for posting this thread in the interests of balance and fairness. After all, a 'forum' is a place where people meet and engage in open discussion and there shouldn't be censorship unless people are saying really rude or crazy things. There is alot of hype about this couple and although I agree with PrinceJohnny to a certain extent about sensitivity because KA actually rules, I do think we should bear in mind that this couple has an iron grip over the media and press in Jordan and so a lot of what people post and read in magazines has been officially 'sanctioned' by the Press Office for the palace. We only see what they want us to see and hear what they want us to hear, therefore a more open discussion is welcome and especially by people who are not neccessarily out and out fans and who maybe have a biased viewpoint.

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:34 PM

My persoanl 'beef' with these two are the fact that they tout themselves as champions of freedom and democracy and yet under Abdullah, Jordan's freedom of speech is more restricted than it has been for many years. If they are so into human rights, how about making honour killings illegal, which Abdullah has the power to do with the stroke of a pen and how about people being able to write things in a free press? I also find it slightly offensive, that the King and Queen of a country which is kept afloat buy US Aid money, spend so extravagantly when there is huge unemployment and lack of rights for ordinary people in Jordan. Now, I understand that some people will say that other royal families spend extravagantly, but they are not poor little ME countries with no resources, I don't know the figures for the rest of Europe, but the UK has the 5th largest economy in the world, so they can afford it. Jordan can't.

Elspeth 01-30-2006 07:39 PM

Before this thread goes any farther, I'd like to remind everyone that the original purpose of the "What bothers you about Diana" thread was NOT for people who disliked Diana to pile in and have a free-for-all hate-fest. It was an attempt to host a civil, calm, mutually respectful discussion in a non-threatening atmosphere so that people could explain why they felt the way they did in the hope that posters on both sides of the issue would come to a better understanding of the reasoning behind the opinions on the other side.

I trust that the motivation behind this thread was similar. In any case, that's how the moderation team expect that it'll be conducted, and we'll be keeping a close eye on it. If people do decide to use it as a venue to pour scorn on the King and Queen or on posters on either side of the discussion, you can expect to see posts being deleted and, if need be, the thread being closed. The forum rules and guidelines apply to this thread as much as to any other.

Elspeth

Royal Forums administrator

madonna23 01-30-2006 07:42 PM

* finances
* media relations (both in and outside of Jordan)
* excessive pandering to themselves (i..e pictures everywhere)
* hypocrisy
* too much pandering to the West

Some things that don't bother me:
* willingness to engage in dialogue
* good language skills

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
Before this thread goes any farther, I'd like to remind everyone that the original purpose of the "What bothers you about Diana" thread was NOT for people who disliked Diana to pile in and have a free-for-all hate-fest. It was an attempt to host a civil, calm, mutually respectful discussion in a non-threatening atmosphere so that people could explain why they felt the way they did in the hope that posters on both sides of the issue would come to a better understanding of the reasoning behind the opinions on the other side.

I trust that the motivation behind this thread was similar. In any case, that's how the moderation team expect that it'll be conducted, and we'll be keeping a close eye on it. If people do decide to use it as a venue to pour scorn on the King and Queen or on posters on either side of the discussion, you can expect to see posts being deleted and, if need be, the thread being closed. The forum rules and guidelines apply to this thread as much as to any other.

Elspeth

Royal Forums administrator

Sorry Elspeth, this is not a hate fest about Rania and Abdullah as individual people, rather my critique is of their role.

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:47 PM

Also, can someonme tell me why the little dot next to my name is red when it used to be green? What does it mean?

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madonna23
* finances
* media relations (both in and outside of Jordan)
* excessive pandering to themselves (i..e pictures everywhere)
* hypocrisy
* too much pandering to the West

Some things that don't bother me:
* willingness to engage in dialogue
* good language skills

I do agree with the courting publicity critique, they are pretty much everywhere you look but also I think there is too much rhetoric from these two and not enough 'substance' so to speak. On the plus side, they have raised the profile of Jordan in the West and they do seem very family orientated.

Laraib 01-30-2006 07:51 PM

I'll tell you what bothers me about these two. First of, Rania wears a little too much make-up.I sincerely think, she believes she is trying out for the "NEXT TO MODEL" contest or something. I really don't have any problems with King Abdullah. I think he is wonderful.:)

lizz70 01-30-2006 07:54 PM

I thought QR was attractive enough when she first became queen and she didn't wear so much makeup. She looks fresher and younger with less.

Elspeth 01-30-2006 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizz70
Sorry Elspeth, this is not a hate fest about Rania and Abdullah as individual people, rather my critique is of their role.

I'm talking about the future direction of the thread as a whole, not the few posts that have been made so far.

Elspeth 01-30-2006 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizz70
Also, can someonme tell me why the little dot next to my name is red when it used to be green? What does it mean?

It means you're in "invisible" mode; in other words, when you're logged in, your name doesn't show as one of the logged-in users. If you want to change it back to green, you can go to your user control panel and uncheck the relevant box.

ZZZ 01-30-2006 09:05 PM

what really bothers me about rania and abdulla are the following (and these are just the tip of the iceberg):

rania - her unfounded philosophy that modernization does not mean westernization. yet in her "modernization", she is unable to part with her "westernization" in every form and way, from the way she dress's to the way she leads her life to her ideology.

abdulla - talks about jordans greatness and openess like the "west" yet his country does not display any qualities practiced by the west. starting with freedom of speech about him, his rule, his family and his love affair with the west.

Humera 01-30-2006 09:25 PM

I think its interesting to hear people, whether westerners or whoever it happens to be, talk about wanting "democracy" in the middle east but when things dont go their way or dont happen fast enough, they expect middle eastern leaders to control and police their populations.

Take the womens' rights issue in Jordan. There have been instances in the past when both the King Abdullah and Queen Rania have pushed stricter punishments for honour killings. And yet conservative politicians and the Jordanian parliament blocked such efforts (twice in 1999 and 2000).
Should the King then ignore parliament, abandon all rule of law and do as he pleases? How does that serve democracy?

Whatever the personal wishes of the King and Queen, the fact remains that they live in a male-dominated and very traditional society where change will not come easily. Tribal societies (as in parts of Jordan) are notoriously traditional, especially when confronted with change, they have their own rules of law. In many parts of the world they dont even realize the authority of the governments they live under.
No law is going to change such a mindset, that applies to Jordan, the Middle East at large, and other parts of the world that have similar problems. However, education, more involvement from women, socially and politically,will slowly bring about a change. And thats something King Abdullah and Queen Rania are doing right.
Thats how things changed for women in the west, it might've taken them decades, even centuries, but things did change.

So before anyone goes blaming KA and QR for not peforming any miracles overnight, it would be useful to get a better perspective of things.

This is a good article from 2004: Time Europe

It provides a summary of the reforms the Queen has been successful in carrying out (increasing participation of women in politics and behind-the-scenes lobbying) and those that have been repeatedly rejected by Jordanian politicians and parliaments (re: divorce rights, honour killings)

ZZZ 01-30-2006 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
I think its interesting to hear people, whether westerners or whoever it happens to be, talk about wanting "democracy" in the middle east but when things dont go their way or dont happen fast enough, they expect middle eastern leaders to control and police their populations.

Take the womens' rights issue in Jordan. There have been instances in the past when both the King Abdullah and Queen Rania have pushed stricter punishments for honour killings. And yet conservative politicians and the Jordanian parliament blocked such efforts (twice in 1999 and 2000).
Should the King then ignore parliament, abandon all rule of law and do as he pleases? How does that serve democracy?

Whatever the personal wishes of the King and Queen, the fact remains that they live in a male-dominated and very traditional society where change will not come easily. Tribal societies (as in parts of Jordan) are notoriously traditional, especially when confronted with change, they have their own rules of law. In many parts of the world they dont even realize the authority of the governments they live under.
No law is going to change such a mindset, that applies to Jordan, the Middle East at large, and other parts of the world that have similar problems. However, education, more involvement from women, socially and politically,will slowly bring about a change. And thats something King Abdullah and Queen Rania are doing right.
Thats how things changed for women in the west, it might've taken them decades, even centuries, but things did change.

So before anyone goes blaming KA and QR for not peforming any miracles overnight, it would be useful to get a better perspective of things.

This is a good article from 2004: Time Europe

It provides a summary of the reforms the Queen has been successful in carrying out (increasing participation of women in politics and behind-the-scenes lobbying) and those that have been repeatedly rejected by Jordanian politicians and parliaments (re: divorce rights, honour killings)

it is not overnight changes that people are expecting. it has been 6 years of publicity shots of the king and queen, 6 years of her growth in western circles, 6 years of no change in their country, 6 years attending events in new clothes and jewels. one of her dress's could feed 10 jordanian or palestinian families that live in refugee camps for a month.


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