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Lyonnaise 11-19-2005 11:11 AM

Queen Noor: Current Events IV
 
Here is the fourth thread for Queen Noor’s CURRENT events. The older thread can be found here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f83/queen-noor-news-thread-iii-6609.html

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maryshawn 11-19-2005 07:23 PM

In recent days, QN has been very hard on westerners, linking them to the dissatisfaction which leads to attacks like the ones in Amman and Iraq and other places. While I think work has to be done on these relationships, I was a bit disappointed in her comments--and she's made these many times before. She lives in the West, after all. In the recent People article on Queen Rania, it states explicitly "QN spends the majority of her time in the US and UK." I don't really understand the contradiction implicit in remarks she's been making--she's basically putting down quite severely the countries she resides in. I admire QN in many ways but get irritated when she always points the finger in one direction--before flying back home in the same direction. In another article, she says it is "high time to move to protect women's rights and punish honor killings." She was with KH for 21 years and I thought her "platform" included both these things. Besides, Queen Rania has taken on these issues and received international recognition for her efforts.....so it's not as if they're being swept under the rug. And PH's website explicitly states both QN and QR are following in the footsteps of her mother, Queen Alia, who began such reforms. This is not meant to be a political post; rather, I am interested in discussing some of QN's contradictions in the remarks she makes. Some seem like she's not in touch with what's going on (eg, QR fighting against honor killings and promoting women and childrens' rights). Or is she just reaffirming her commitment to such causes? I've re-read her quotes a few times and can't tell.

Also, has she pretty much given up her leadership role on landmines? She hasn't spoken up much about cancer either for the past few years--very different than the years immediately following her husband's death when she seemed quite impassioned about it.

amina1 11-19-2005 09:55 PM

yes Maryshawn, work has to be done in order to imrove the relationship of the two sides, but there're LOTS of people who think the same as QN's remarks on the West, and it's true, their foreigne policy causes all this trouble and no one should EVER agree up on bombing westerns in any country and at the time time no one should bomb a country or occupy others, obviously both sides are wrong, one started with the wrong thing and the other side will do reply in same manner,
And QN loves USA and she has many best friends there, she's just excepressing her opinion about the ones who make the decisions in the political sircle (in usa).

maryshawn 11-19-2005 11:40 PM

Agreed. I don't want to get into politics though so am being careful. I have concerns about QN's seeming disconnect with various issues lately.

She said in her book she promised her husband Jordan would remain her home--yet, she is, according to People and just observing her activities--residing mainly in the US and occasionally in the UK. This seems like a major change in her original position.

"Now is the time to promote women's rights and address honor killings....?" Well, hasn't she noticed QR and others are doing just that?

She was going to devote her time to landmines (practically the entire topic on Larry King in 1999) but now seems to be very limited in her participation.

She was also going to focus and raise funds for cancer research. I'm not seeing it. Her speaking engagements are abou the ME.

She's a smart woman with a high profile. She could do a lot of good when it comes to cancer and landmines, for example. I'm baffled more than a bit by her actions which seem discombobulated. She acts like a woman in search of a focus. Instead of devoting her efforts to a few causes, she's been all over the board in the last few years. The recent KHF fundraiser was the first time I'd seen her draw attention to that. Even her website was virtually defunct and hadn't been updated for two years.

The things she's doing (or not doing) are contrary to promises she made or alluded to just three years ago. I'm trying to understand this shift in her focus. IMO, she's struggling with making the shift from being Queen to one in name only--and isn't quite sure of herself right now. I hope she regains her "footing" as there is much good she could do. I'm a huge fann whose followed her for years--but, to me, she seems scattered.

Humera 11-20-2005 12:01 AM

where exactly did she make those comments about the west maryshawn? I've only seen her on CNN since the attacks and read one article.

I actually felt that Queen Rania's comments on Good Morning America were very appropriate. When Diane Sawyer asked her if the war in Iraq was the reason these attacks had taken place, Rania basically said that she didnt want to justify the attacks with any reason.

This was her exact quote:
"I think it is time for us to stop talking about, you know, passing the blame on what's happening in Iraq, but try to focus on the future," she said. "What happened is just completely senseless and trying to bring any explanation or justification would only be giving it credence, and we should never do that."

madonna23 11-20-2005 04:17 AM

I agree with you, amina1. She is criticizing the policy makers - not American or British people.

maryshawn 11-20-2005 10:21 PM

From the Persian Times, Nov. 14, 2005:

The queen seems to spend a lot of her time in these sorts of interviews, providing spin control after each high-profile, ghastly atrocity committed by the Religion of Peace. Each time, she never fails to change the focus of the interview away from the horror and on to the preeminent need for Westerners to change their attitudes toward "Arabs and Muslims."

One example and I'll find others. She doesn't say Western governments; she says "westerners." As a person of the west who lives in the midwest of the US, I have never heard my fellow westerners criticize muslims--not even after 9/11. I don't like the fact she lumps us into one sum and takes the view we are not smart enough to differentiate between terrorists and good people of any faith. In fact, in 2001, locals contributed to the building of a mosque for their friends and neighbors. Right now, we are raising funds for a second and a place for muslims to get together for iftars was donated by local business people. The donations are streaming in--even from your average mill worker who holds a much more inclusive view than QN seems to give "westerners" credit for having.

The circles QN hangs out in in Aspen with their think tanks are very wealthy people and I think they have an elitist view when it comes to the average citizen in the US and their capacity to understand.

In her last interview with Larry King, QN said "as a muslim, I have been subjected to the highest level and most intrusive of searches when I fly." Later, in the same discussion, she backed off this comment and said she had not been strip-searched and, in fact, didn't want to give the wrong impression about that--as well as the fact the US FAA has changed its policies so muslims are not explicity targeted.

I think there is much more to be gained by discussing how people are alike and supportive, rather than to incessantly pick apart their "supposed inability to discern" what is going on.

Sometimes, I think QN tries too hard to emphasize the fact she is muslim--and does so by engaging in blanket criticism of westerners.

But I've previously listed a number of inconsistencies about QN and wonder where they stem from. From all I've read, she is welcome in Jordan--but elects to live in Aspen more frequently. This has contributed to rumors QR and KA don't want her there. I don't believe this. Jordan has had two queens before. Besides, she promised KH and was quite vocal in 1999-2001, Jordan "is and will always be her home."

She says Jordan has wonderful health care yet, even with the births of her children, while she states she had a jordanian OB, the reality is Sir George Pinker (sp?) who delivered QE's babies, Diana's and other royals and is British, delivered hers. She was photographed at his retirement party with others who used him as their OB and praised his work. I have the photos.

This may seem a little matter but it is an inconsistency. And I wonder why she engages in this sort of thing.

Quote=~*~Humera~*~]where exactly did she make those comments about the west maryshawn? I've only seen her on CNN since the attacks and read one article.

I actually felt that Queen Rania's comments on Good Morning America were very appropriate. When Diane Sawyer asked her if the war in Iraq was the reason these attacks had taken place, Rania basically said that she didnt want to justify the attacks with any reason.

This was her exact quote:
"I think it is time for us to stop talking about, you know, passing the blame on what's happening in Iraq, but try to focus on the future," she said. "What happened is just completely senseless and trying to bring any explanation or justification would only be giving it credence, and we should never do that."[/quote]

Humera 11-21-2005 01:54 AM

thank you for the article.
I think I came across it when looking for the latest news on QN.
But I think that this seems to be an opinion piece by someone who is obviously looking to promote their own point-of-view.
It is clearly not a very objective piece and even though there may by some truth to it, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Its quite blatantly anti-Noor and even anti-Muslim.
I have come across articles and editorials denouncing Queen Noor before, from those who are anti-Palestinian or pro-Israeli for example. Such pieces always have their own agenda/point-of-view to promote and its unfair that they use public figures like Queen Noor to take out their own frustrations.
I think the article above is a bit over-the-top. I dont think its fair to say that Queen Noor criticizes all westerners. I have read and seen her interviews many times and she never uses such language. Infact she always appeared to me to be rather diplomatic and going to considerable pains to use the right language when describing the grievances of people in the middle east. And she has often mentioned it is US foreign policy that many arabs and muslims have problems with, not all americans or westerners.
And she has certainly not blamed any westerners or the US since the Amman attacks.

emily62_1 11-21-2005 04:00 AM

Points of views.
 
[quote=maryshawn]From the Persian Times, Nov. 14, 2005:



I believe it's hard and unfair to judge a person by our own point of view, we are NOT IN HER OWN SHOES ,it's too easy for us, I mean all of us, including me, to state what's wrong and what's right. First, no1 really knows what kind of relationship ther's btw KA, QR and QN. Any1 here writes what she/he would like it to be, according to his/her own simpathy for QN or for QR and KA. If u're so sure she's most welcome by QR and KA in Jordan, would u plz tell me why she refused to comment on her own son having been stripped of his title, saying that KA had not discussed it with her before , he taking the decision and announce it on TV, without at least alert his late father's widow, it would have been a sign of respect- she did not even pronounce Ka's name in her only statement given soon after Hamzah's unfair stripping of his title !!!!!!! I heard it's quite offending from any1 talking about The King and not pronounce his name, in Jordan. Last, she's in a delicate position, u can say what u want, maybe as u did not have the chance to watch Hamzah's wed on TV, QN looked very upset, she was totally ignored, not by other countries' Royal Families members, but by her own son, the groom, byQR and KA. She looked kind of lost, as if she was there as an uninvited guest, not as the groom's mother. You also mention jordan has already had 2 queens, are u talking about Q ei and QN ? Q Zein and Q alia ? Well, Q Zein was the mother of the King, no1, not even QN, could touch her, she had a very important role in Amman court, and she had KH's protection. In fact, in the first 2 years and a half, from Feb '99 to mid- 2001, QN was very often in Jordan, going on with her own previous activities, she was the CP's mother, KA was not still so sure of being accepted by J ppl, he had no skil, and there was criticized by his ppl, he had to prove himself and J ppl he was able to succeed his late father, so he did need Hamzah, his father's pref son, s loved by J ppl, unlike him as ppl did not even know who he was- he was so uneasy when making a speech in those days, he could not even make it without reading a script, I can recall once he could not read a word, he was so embarassed, there was silence, every1 was there waiiting for him to go on, after a while, he smirked and went on, after having had a suggestion by a member of his staff-the InternetBoy"-that's how Katami called him back in '99, he's now so self- assured, his wife, too- it was so obvious he thought it was the time to dismiss QN and Hamzah, who, since last nov 29, 2004, has never been sworned as a Regent when KA is abroad, we are noteven sure what's he doing, now- elon College, last May 2005,Hamzah had to resign from his duties, officially as he had to study for his exams.

closesttoheaven 11-21-2005 07:53 AM

[quote=emily62_1]
Quote:

Originally Posted by maryshawn
From the Persian Times, Nov. 14, 2005:



I believe it's hard and unfair to judge a person by our own point of view, we are NOT IN HER OWN SHOES ,it's too easy for us, I mean all of us, including me, to state what's wrong and what's right. First, no1 really knows what kind of relationship ther's btw KA, QR and QN. Any1 here writes what she/he would like it to be, according to his/her own simpathy for QN or for QR and KA. If u're so sure she's most welcome by QR and KA in Jordan, would u plz tell me why she refused to comment on her own son having been stripped of his title, saying that KA had not discussed it with her before , he taking the decision and announce it on TV, without at least alert his late father's widow, it would have been a sign of respect- she did not even pronounce Ka's name in her only statement given soon after Hamzah's unfair stripping of his title !!!!!!! I heard it's quite offending from any1 talking about The King and not pronounce his name, in Jordan. Last, she's in a delicate position, u can say what u want, maybe as u did not have the chance to watch Hamzah's wed on TV, QN looked very upset, she was totally ignored, not by other countries' Royal Families members, but by her own son, the groom, byQR and KA. She looked kind of lost, as if she was there as an uninvited guest, not as the groom's mother. You also mention jordan has already had 2 queens, are u talking about Q ei and QN ? Q Zein and Q alia ? Well, Q Zein was the mother of the King, no1, not even QN, could touch her, she had a very important role in Amman court, and she had KH's protection. In fact, in the first 2 years and a half, from Feb '99 to mid- 2001, QN was very often in Jordan, going on with her own previous activities, she was the CP's mother, KA was not still so sure of being accepted by J ppl, he had no skil, and there was criticized by his ppl, he had to prove himself and J ppl he was able to succeed his late father, so he did need Hamzah, his father's pref son, s loved by J ppl, unlike him as ppl did not even know who he was- he was so uneasy when making a speech in those days, he could not even make it without reading a script, I can recall once he could not read a word, he was so embarassed, there was silence, every1 was there waiiting for him to go on, after a while, he smirked and went on, after having had a suggestion by a member of his staff-the InternetBoy"-that's how Katami called him back in '99, he's now so self- assured, his wife, too- it was so obvious he thought it was the time to dismiss QN and Hamzah, who, since last nov 29, 2004, has never been sworned as a Regent when KA is abroad, we are noteven sure what's he doing, now- elon College, last May 2005,Hamzah had to resign from his duties, officially as he had to study for his exams.

well i have to say - i only saw a part of the wedding from prince hamza and princess noor...
but everything i have seen - doesnt tell me the story - you are telling here.
and isnt the mother the most important person in a muslime family?
i dont know which way other people interpretate the wedding....

but i still guess that hes very close to his mother - cause queen noor is not the same like the mother noor...
queen is an official role - but the role of the mother is privacy.and we dont know much private things about this family!

maryshawn 11-21-2005 07:45 PM

True; this is a very private family and we know very, very little of what goes on behind the scenes with family dynamics. Photos and videos tell part of the story--but only part--and, yes, the body language between QN and Hamzah at the wedding seemed "cool." It also seemed distant in the shots taken after KH's death in his office where QN is clutching his hand and gazing up at him and he is looking away. However, that is one shot and I can't say this is totally reflective of their relationship.

As anyone who has read my posts for the past few years knows, I am very supportive of Queen Noor and sympathetic to her plight as Queen, really in name only.

It is a concern to me--and has been for some time--that this energetic, involved, intelligent woman has seemingly removed herself from not just Jordan but her former life. She continues to live in a rented house with rented furniture; her only personal belongings being her books and a photo of KH. Is it too painful to be surrounded by mementos of their past? Did she want a fresh start? Why are so many things in storage going on three years now? It seems Ba'ab al Salam, the home she and KH loved so much, sits empty, without QN much of the time.

We used to see her in plenty of photos--even holiday shots--with other royals. Now, she says she was not invited to Charles and Camilla's wedding--though Charles was her escort to a number of events for awhile. Now she's more often photographed with Bono, Sting, Meg Ryan and celebrities. Is she no longer welcome or "top of mind" in royal circles? I hope she's not been shunned because she's no longer the wife of the ruler. In her book, she writes of being quite close to various royals--like Queen Sofia of Spain. The last time I saw them together was a vacation in 2002 and during QN's book tour in Madrid.

Perhaps what I am trying to get at--and thank you all for your insightful comments--is how much life seems to have changed since KH's death for QN. Some have said she should have been better prepared for life as his widow; in 1999, she says she "had thought they would have 15-20 more years together." I think this was a sincere remark.

So how do you feel she is handling things since her husband's death? What do you think the future holds for her? Does she seem happy and content?

rollin_keef 11-22-2005 02:25 AM

shut up
 
I think Q Noor in relation to her comments about the post-amman attacks should not make such comments.

What the area needs for strong men of moderate stance to stand up to those cowards and not for a has-been queen to attack the lands in which she lives and that sponsored her late husband. Where would the Hashemites be without the west? Hussein like his son was an American puppet. If Talal had been king longer i feel it would have been very different.

Humera 11-22-2005 03:36 AM

Who exactly are you telling to shut up?
Queen Noor didnt make any comments criticizing the west after the attacks.
Where are these accusations coming from?
The article maryshawn posted doesnt mention any specific comments made since the attacks in Amman.
There's no basis for such accusations. The only major interview she did after the attacks was on CNN and she only talked about the attacks themselves, without any references to/criticisms of the West.

closesttoheaven 11-22-2005 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryshawn
True; this is a very private family and we know very, very little of what goes on behind the scenes with family dynamics. Photos and videos tell part of the story--but only part--and, yes, the body language between QN and Hamzah at the wedding seemed "cool." It also seemed distant in the shots taken after KH's death in his office where QN is clutching his hand and gazing up at him and he is looking away. However, that is one shot and I can't say this is totally reflective of their relationship.

As anyone who has read my posts for the past few years knows, I am very supportive of Queen Noor and sympathetic to her plight as Queen, really in name only.

It is a concern to me--and has been for some time--that this energetic, involved, intelligent woman has seemingly removed herself from not just Jordan but her former life. She continues to live in a rented house with rented furniture; her only personal belongings being her books and a photo of KH. Is it too painful to be surrounded by mementos of their past? Did she want a fresh start? Why are so many things in storage going on three years now? It seems Ba'ab al Salam, the home she and KH loved so much, sits empty, without QN much of the time.

We used to see her in plenty of photos--even holiday shots--with other royals. Now, she says she was not invited to Charles and Camilla's wedding--though Charles was her escort to a number of events for awhile. Now she's more often photographed with Bono, Sting, Meg Ryan and celebrities. Is she no longer welcome or "top of mind" in royal circles? I hope she's not been shunned because she's no longer the wife of the ruler. In her book, she writes of being quite close to various royals--like Queen Sofia of Spain. The last time I saw them together was a vacation in 2002 and during QN's book tour in Madrid.

Perhaps what I am trying to get at--and thank you all for your insightful comments--is how much life seems to have changed since KH's death for QN. Some have said she should have been better prepared for life as his widow; in 1999, she says she "had thought they would have 15-20 more years together." I think this was a sincere remark.

So how do you feel she is handling things since her husband's death? What do you think the future holds for her? Does she seem happy and content?

i agree with most of your statement.
in one hand - its sound really said - and i still think - he KH didnt prepare her for the life after him...
but i think she did the best she can do.
she works hard - for the things - she believes and - which are important to her.
when she isnt welcome anymore in the royal scene - to me it seems - its not so important for her.
her title is important for her work... and i think - she never was the right person for royal connections... she says about herself - so i think she can live without.
i think - the kennedys were always much more close to her heart - than queen sofia?!
but maybe - they are still in contact - and we never hear about...

it seems she can handle it very good...

and the most important things are her children.so i hope - she is close to them...
and sometimes - there are stories about - that she took one of her daughters or sons - with her to a party and so on...
so i think they spend more time together and so on than we guess.
all in all - i think she took the right way not living a royal life anymore!

maryshawn 11-22-2005 08:45 PM

I also agree with your comments. Particularly, I hope she is taking time to renew bonds with her children. In her book and in articles, she said it was her choice, not her husband's, that she spend more time with him and on Jordanian, ME and international issues and ended by saying "were my children best served by my decision? Only time will tell." Her life now affords her the chance to spend time with them.

On some level, as time goes on, perhaps she is happy she is no longer the "royal" she once was as it is a "grueling existence." (her words, not mine). She is comparatively young and has the chance to live a different life--one forged by her thoughts and desires. In many ways, it's a gift--although I am sure she misses her husband very much.

closesttoheaven 11-23-2005 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryshawn
I also agree with your comments. Particularly, I hope she is taking time to renew bonds with her children. In her book and in articles, she said it was her choice, not her husband's, that she spend more time with him and on Jordanian, ME and international issues and ended by saying "were my children best served by my decision? Only time will tell." Her life now affords her the chance to spend time with them.

On some level, as time goes on, perhaps she is happy she is no longer the "royal" she once was as it is a "grueling existence." (her words, not mine). She is comparatively young and has the chance to live a different life--one forged by her thoughts and desires. In many ways, it's a gift--although I am sure she misses her husband very much.

the last days - i read an old interview of her again - cause i found it on google...
and there she said she works 18 hours the day...
i hope she changed that - cause in my eyes - it is really to much.

and one moment - i had an idea - that the work was a hole for her - to flee out of the *golden royal cage*?

maryshawn 11-23-2005 04:41 PM

She affirmed your statement about 18 hour workdays in several articles and on Larry King in 1999 when she said she is "always working." She gestured toward her side and said "my computer is in my bag and I am emailing constantly." In an interview with Bryant Gumbel, she and KH said "....it is a difficult, arduous life....dreaming about it when you're sleeping...living it night and day."

danburdopt 11-23-2005 10:18 PM

I think it may be difficult position for Queen Noor to be in since QR is so vocal and so well loved in Jordan. I feel QN may have initially taken a less public role in order for QR to find her place and causes as queen of jordan; however, with the current political landscape in Jordan it is now the time to be more visual and supportive of KA's policies. She retains the title of Queen and should be standing by the people of her country who have been emotionally wounded by these recent senseless terrorist attacks, even more so because she is viewed as a "western" influence in ME.
If Jordan is indeed her homeland then she needs to make her presence, love and support felt.

haanmr 11-28-2005 07:56 AM

http://www.pointdevue.fr/contenu/fr/default.php?rb=1

closesttoheaven 11-28-2005 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haanmr

why did you post this link?i dont read anything connecting to queen noor?
or maybe it doesnt work?:confused: :confused:


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