The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   Royal Families of Italy (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f81/)
-   -   Royal House of Savoy current events 1: 2002- March 2007 (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f81/royal-house-of-savoy-current-events-1-2002-march-2007-a-7827.html)

Jacqueline 12-24-2002 01:30 AM

Royal House of Savoy current events 1: 2002- March 2007
 
Monday, 23 December, 2002, 14:59 GMT
Italy's royals return home

Victor Emmanuel, the son of Italy's last king, has returned to Italy after more than half a century in exile.

He and his family landed at Rome's Ciampino military airport in a private plane on Monday morning, ahead of a private audience with Pope John Paul II.

Victor Emmanuel spoke of experiencing "indescribable emotion" at his return.

Hours later the family left for the return flight to Switzerland, after a lightning visit which had taken commentators by surprise.

But Victor Emmanuel's decision to make his first visit to the Vatican - rather than to the Italian president or Naples, which he left as a nine-year-old boy in 1946 - has earned criticism from some who saw it as inappropriate.

The former royal family swore their loyalty to the Italian republic as part of the terms of the lifting of the post-war ban on them returning to Italy.

It is Victor Emmanuel's first visit since he was a boy
Sergio Romano, a former ambassador and an influential commentator, described the decision to go to the Vatican as "a combination of arrogance, political insensitivity and bad upbringing."

But Victor Emmanuel told reporters: "We are Catholic and I am returning to my country which, with the Pope, is the seat of Catholicism.

"The first thing I do is see the Pope, then we shall see all the others."

The visit was made possible by a series of votes in the Italian parliament earlier this year, reversing the post-war ban on the male royals' return.

"I have come back to Rome after 56 years and I cannot find words to express my feelings at this moment," Victor Emmanuel said, as he stood on Italian soil for the first time in his adult life.

The family has been in Geneva since 1946 when it was exiled for supporting the fascist government of Italy's wartime leader Benito Mussolini.

Monarchy discredited

The BBC's Rome correspondent, David Willey, says Victor Emmanuel, his wife, Marine Doria, and their son, Emmanuel Filiberto, were whisked away from the airport in two cars provided by the Vatican.

The 65-year-old prince was nine years old when he left his homeland, while Emmanuel Filiberto, 30, has never set foot in Italy.

They are the direct descendants of Italy's last king, Umberto II, who died in Switzerland in 1983.

Umberto's father, Victor Emmanuel III, reigned while Mussolini was in power, before eventually dismissing the former dictator in 1943.

The king, disgraced for collaborating with the fascist regime, including having endorsed the deportation of thousands of Italian Jews during World War II, abdicated in May, 1946.

Two years later the Italian constitution barred Umberto's descendants from Italy.

Campaign

The royals have led a long campaign to visit their homeland and earlier this year the Italian parliament relaxed the ban on the grounds that the family presented no danger to the Italian republic set up after the fall of fascism.

Our correspondent says the visit had been planned for some time, but the family kept secret the date of this whirlwind trip.

He says there is little public support in Italy for the return of the monarchy, who are regarded as slightly anachronistic in the Italy of the third millennium.

The family have renounced all claims to the Italian throne.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2600533.stm

Julia 12-24-2002 01:34 AM

Thanks for the article, Jacqueline! It is quite interesting that Vittorio Emanuele decided on returning when he had a back injury that required him to leave for treatment back in Switzerland the same day. I guess it will be interesting to see how often they frequent Italy now that they are no longer exiled.

Julia

Julia 02-05-2003 07:49 PM

Here is a link to quite a few pictures of the Savoys on return visit to Rome....1st time in 56 years...Life Press

Julia 03-12-2003 06:59 PM

11 MARCH 2003
The head of Italy's royal dynasty has said he will not lay claim to the country's Crown jewels, days before his planned return to the Mediterranean country.

Sixty-five-year-old Prince Victor Emmanuel, who as the son of Italy's last reigning king Umberto II has spent the greater part of his life in exile, confirmed that the Crown properties, confiscated by the State in 1946, "are no longer ours". "For that matter we have no claim on the Crown jewels," he said. "We have nothing in Italy and we are not asking for anything."

The prince did say, however, that he hopes the priceless gems, which are currently stored at the Bank of Italy, will be placed on public display. "I hope this with all my heart," he said. "There is no point in keeping them in a dark bank vault."

In addition, a case at the European Court of Human Rights in which the prince charged that his lengthy exile violated his rights, has been dropped.

The announcement comes nearly 60 years after Italy voted for the formation of a republic and all male heirs of the house of Savoy were banned from Italian soil. The parliament overturned the ruling in December 2002, and in January the prince, who has spent most of his life in Switzerland, made a brief visit to the land where his family once reigned.

The prince, who has renounced all claims to the Italian throne, will arrive in Naples on Saturday, with his wife and 30-year-old son Prince Emmanuel Filiberto. It has not been disclosed how the family plan to divide their time between Italy and Switzerland.

Etienne,DuchessofBurgundy 08-18-2003 03:00 AM

Italy's exiled royal family shunned as they return
By Bruce Johnston in Rome
(Filed: 16/03/2003)


Italy's former royal family returned to their homeland yesterday after 57 years in exile - to a barrage of criticism which threatened to overshadow the lavish parties and welcoming dinners.

The three-day visit to Naples by Prince Victor Emmanuel, the 65-year-old head of the House of Savoy, his wife, Marina Doria, and their son, Emmanuel Filiberto, 30, was intended to be a grand official homecoming from Switzerland.

Instead, the prince's expressions of "love" for his native land have been met by hostility within Naples - where he was born and from where he sailed into exile at the age of nine - and derision throughout much of Italy.

The family has lived in exile since 1946, when the male line was banished after the late King Victor Emmanuel III, the prince's grandfather, collaborated with Mussolini's fascist regime.

Their return was orchestrated by Silvio Berlusconi's centre-Right government, which pushed the Italian parliament to lift the constitutional ban last year. But feelings still run deep. "I am sorry Naples is receiving with all the honours the people who have been our assassins," said Pasquale Squitieri, the Neapolitan film maker.

Posters lambasting the royal family as "traitors of Italy" and "slaughterers of the South" have appeared around Naples - the latter a reference to the rough treatment meted out to southern "brigands" when the Savoys became rulers of a newly-united Italy in the 19th century.

There is added hostility in the South because Naples was the seat of the rival Bourbon dynasty until it was displaced by the Savoys. Outside Naples cathedral, where the Savoys are expected to attend Mass today, the hard-Right Movimento Sociale is planning a sit-in, demanding that the family "apologise" for their wrongs.

An impulsive man, the present-day Victor Emmanuel, who has renounced all claims to the throne, did little to enhance the family reputation when, five years ago, he described Mussolini's racial laws - which eventually led to the deportation of 8,000 Jews to concentration camps - as "not all that bad".

Some, at least, were clamouring to see him. Naples socialites battled for invitations to drinks at the Circolo dell'Unione, the city's stuffiest club, or to a gala dinner at the glitzy Vesuvius Hotel, where the Savoys are staying.

But to the Savoys' astonishment, the city's mayor, Rosa Russo Jervolino, turned down a 15,000-euro (£10,000) donation by the prince to a city hospice, claiming it was a publicity stunt. She said that the family had wanted a plaque unveiled in Victor Emmanuel's honour. "Charity must be done quietly and not ostentatiously," she said.

The Neo-Bourbon Movement in Naples, meanwhile, printed thousands of stickers showing the Savoy coat of arms surmounted with a "no entry" sign and the words "Indietro Savoia" - "Savoys, go home".

Professor Gennaro De Crescenzo, the movement's president, said: "The South has nothing to celebrate with the Savoys' return. From unification onwards, they have spelt nothing but death, repression and the plunder of our resources."

asma 04-08-2004 04:50 PM

Please, can anyone tell me if there is a connection between savoy royal family and the famous international group of hotels savoy?I mean is the royal family investing its money in these hotels?thank you.

Lyonnaise 12-09-2004 09:45 AM

2 Attachment(s)
PARIS - DECEMBER 8: Prince Victor Emmanuel de Savoie with his wife Marina attends The Best Awards at the Pavillon Gabriel on December 8, 2004 in Paris, France.

emily62_1 08-28-2005 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asma
Please, can anyone tell me if there is a connection between savoy royal family and the famous international group of hotels savoy?I mean is the royal family investing its money in these hotels?thank you.

no, not at all, they would have never invested in hotels.

Warren 08-28-2005 07:33 AM

Savoy Palace & Hotel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by asma
Please, can anyone tell me if there is a connection between the Savoy Royal Family and the famous international group of Savoy hotels?

The first Savoy Hotel was in London in the Strand and was built by the owner of the nearby Savoy Theatre. The first manager of the hotel was César Ritz, who later spun off his own brand. The hotel's name came from the Savoy Palace which had occupied the site in Plantagenet times (John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster lived there). Henry III granted the land to Peter, Count of Savoy (who was the Queen's uncle) and he built the palace.
source: Wikipedia

Queens 09-07-2005 09:58 PM

can someone tell me why the italian royals don't get along? If the answer was already posted.. please direct me to the thread...

thanks
Queens

Warren 09-08-2005 03:55 AM

Savoy v Savoy-Aosta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Queens
can someone tell me why the italian royals don't get along? If the answer was already posted.. please direct me to the thread...
thanks. Queens

The House of Savoy is a bit thin on males. In fact there are only four:

Prince Vittorio Emanuele, son of King Umberto II;
his son Prince Emanuele Filiberto, VE's only child
and
Prince Amedeo, 5th Duke of Aosta;
his only son Prince Aimone (who is to marry Princess Olga of Greece next year)

The main branch of the House of Savoy (Umberto and his family) were subject to the Law of Exile, while the Aostas remained in Italy.

The Duke of Aosta has not declared himself the Head of the Royal House of Savoy, but some Italian monarchists see him as representing the true Royal tradition. They were not impressed with the "unequal" marriage of VE and Marina Doria (nor with EF's marriage to Clotilde), and even less impressed with Vittorio Emanuele's general behaviour. VE's stock fell when he shot dead a man he thought was tampering with his boat a few years ago (he was acquitted of murder), and his behaviour at the Spanish Royal Wedding last year confirmed this negative opinion in some minds. So just the fact that the Duke of Aosta is highly regarded and considered a very Royal gentleman is enough for Vittorio Emanuele to resent him, and to feel threatened by the Duke and his family.
.

Jil 10-29-2005 05:52 PM

Photos of Italian Royals From the Past
 
I collect old postcards of Royalty. Here is a link that you can click on to see my collection of Italian Royalty Postcards:

http://photobucket.com/albums/y138/l...yCirca1907.jpg

If anyone has any old photos of the Italian Royals-then please share them with us! Thanks!

CasiraghiTrio 11-06-2005 07:30 PM

Status of the Italian royalty
 
I thought the King was restored to his throne in 2002 (?). Why is this forum under "non-reigning" houses?

jcranma 11-07-2005 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I thought the King was restored to his throne in 2002 (?). Why is this forum under "non-reigning" houses?

Are you kidding? Italy is still a republic with President Ciampi as the head of state. You must be refering to the agreement the Savoys signed in order to return to Italian soil during that year. Besides, the current Italian PM and his media empire might have a thing or two to say about restoring a Savoy to the throne....

fanletizia 12-13-2005 10:17 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Prince and Princesse Victor Emmanuel de Savoie attend the The Best Awards 2005 party at Hotel Bristol on December 12, 2005 in Paris, France. The awards are for the best dressed men and women of the past year

from getty

purple_platinum 12-20-2005 08:50 AM

December 7, 2005
Marina Doria di Savoia shops in Via Della Spiga in Milan with Marta Brivio Sforza

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1...22564it.th.jpg http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8...22508bl.th.jpg http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3...22572ww.th.jpg http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6...22639ul.th.jpg

(pictures from newscom)

Jim 02-13-2006 02:22 PM

I am looking for a picture(s) of the burial place of Queen Elena of Italy. St. Lazarus Cemetery, Montplier, France. Any help would be greatly appriecated.

Sancia 02-17-2006 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
And that's a peculiarity of the Carignano family (the real House of Savoy died out in mid- XIX century) excell: they're great escapologists!

My Savoia genealogy said to me Savoia-Carignano was their name since the 16th century. And the real House of Savoy is not died at all. Their are all Savoia by the males.

Warren 02-17-2006 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielane
My Savoia genealogy said to me Savoia-Carignano was their name since the 16th century. And the real House of Savoy is not died at all. Their are all Savoia by the males.

They are all members of the House of Savoy, but from a distant branch. The common ancestor is Carlo Emanuele I, Duke of Savoy (1562-1630). His elder son Vittorio Amedeo continued the Ducal line (who became Kings of Sardinia), while a younger son was titled Prince of Carignano.

In 1831 the main line died out with Carlo Felice, King of Sardinia. He was succeeded as King by his Carignano kinsman Carlo Alberto, a direct descendent in the 7th generation of Carlo Emanuele I. The gap was 201 years!

Tosca 02-18-2006 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielane
My Savoia genealogy said to me Savoia-Carignano was their name since the 16th century. And the real House of Savoy is not died at all. Their are all Savoia by the males.

Our history books say the Savoia Family ended with Carlo Felice, who produced no heirs, so the throne went to his nephew Carlo Alberto Principe di Carignano.

LaPlusBelle 02-18-2006 01:32 PM

Okay, this might be slightly off topic, but how, if at all, are the Savoys and the Calabrias related?
Thanks.

Sancia 02-18-2006 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
Our history books say the Savoia Family ended with Carlo Felice, who produced no heirs, so the throne went to his nephew Carlo Alberto Principe di Carignano.

But as the current Savoia is a direct descendant by the men of the ducal family of Savoia, in a genealogical way, the family has not died, as the current branch does still belong to the same family. I see your point perfectly, but one can't say the family has died, it would say there is no more descendants by the men of the original ducal family. Do you see my point?

Warren 02-18-2006 03:38 PM

Savoys & Two Sicilians
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LaPlusBelle
Okay, this might be slightly off topic, but how, if at all, are the Savoys and the Calabrias related?
Thanks.

Not very closely. For starters the Bourbon Two-Sicilies were an outposted branch of the Spanish Royal House, and they and the Savoys were rivals over dominance in what we now call Italy; the Savoys triumphed at the expense of the Kings of the Two Sicilies, the Dukes of Parma, the Grand Dukes of Tuscany etc, who all lost their thrones at the time of unification in 1861.

There had been a couple of Savoy-Two Sicilies marriages, but not of great significance. The only standout would be Princess Maria Cristina, daughter of King Vittorio Emanuele I, who married Ferdinando II, King of the Two Sicilies, in 1832 (she died four years later).

However, 1938 was a big year, and marked the reconciliation between the two Royal Houses. Prince Eugenio of Savoy, Duke of Ancona, 5th Duke of Genoa, married Princess Lucia, the daughter of Ferdinando (III), Duke of Calabria, Count of Caserta, Head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies (and the last undisputed Head!).

Warren 02-18-2006 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielane
But as the current Savoia is a direct descendant by the men of the ducal family of Savoia, in a genealogical way, the family has not died, as the current branch does still belong to the same family. I see your point perfectly, but one can't say the family has died, it would say there is no more descendants by the men of the original ducal family. Do you see my point?

Yes. One branch of the dynasty died out and the surviving branch assumed the Crown. Still the same House and the same dynasty, still Savoy.

Sancia 02-18-2006 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren
Yes. One branch of the dynasty died out and the surviving branch assumed the Crown. Still the same House and the same dynasty, still Savoy.

Yes, exactly this point. So technically the Savoia family has not died.

Tosca 02-21-2006 10:25 AM

Princess Marina and Prince Carlo Giovannelli at a party in Gstaadt (dagospia)
http://i1.tinypic.com/o8s9zq.jpg

Tosca 03-05-2006 08:17 AM

Somebody mentioned Princess Maria Gabriella di Savoia, Queen Elena's great ganddaughter. Here are a couple of pics of her taken not long ago. However I see no resemblance with Queen Elena today, still she's a very beautiful lady (from:olycom)

Princess MG hosted by Italian state-run channel RAI1http://i2.tinypic.com/qqua37.jpg

Princess MG and her daughter Elisabeth de Balkany in their ancestors' bedroom in Racconigi Palace near Turin. (Turin was the first capital of the Kingdom of Italy)
http://i2.tinypic.com/qqubdi.jpg

Merca 03-20-2006 01:54 PM

I have a question about Princess Marina. Does anyone know anything about her ancestors? Is she an aristocrat by birth? How did she meet Victor Emanuelle in the first place?

Tosca 03-21-2006 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merca
I have a question about Princess Marina. Does anyone know anything about her ancestors? Is she an aristocrat by birth? How did she meet Victor Emanuelle in the first place?

Prince Vittorio Emanuele and Marina Ricolfi Doria first met at a party in 1945 when they both were still kids.
Then they met again in 1954 when she was 19 and he was 17 and fell in love. She won the world's water skiing championship four times. She was born in Switzerland, the daughter of a wealthy bakery owner, for this reason she was often referred as the "bakeress" by the press. She is the descendant of Genua's doge Andrea Doria. She's ana ristocrat, but not a royal.
The Prince parents didn't approve their relationship, so they first got married in a civil ceremony in Las Vegas in 1970, then they a married in a religious ceremony in Teheran in 1971, since VE was a good friend of Reza Pahlavi.

Marina Ricolfi Doria when she was young (liberonews.)
http://i1.tinypic.com/rw07zp.jpg

Tosca 04-28-2006 10:59 AM

Prince Vittorio Emanuele with his two sisters, Maria Gabriella (nicknamed Ella) on the left, and Maria Beatrice (Titti) at a gala (OLYCOM)
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1338/000001w7go.jpg

Tosca 04-28-2006 11:01 AM

Pricess Maria Beatrice di Savoia (Titti), her late husband Luis Reyna and their late son Raffaello at his christening in 1972 (Olycom)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5661/000019w2mp.jpg

Tosca 04-28-2006 11:02 AM

Titti and her Mom, Queen Maria José in 1943 (olycom)
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7402/000031w2ud.jpg

Tosca 04-28-2006 11:04 AM

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2864/000021w9az.jpg

Prince Vittorio Emanuele and his sisters : Maria Beatrice, Maria Pia and Maria Gabriella when they were young.

Tosca 04-28-2006 11:08 AM

A vintage photo of Princess Maria Pia di Savoia and her kids. two pairs of twins (olycom)
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8...003w9pk.th.jpg

Warren 04-28-2006 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
A vintage photo of Princess Maria Pia di Savoia and her kids. two pairs of twins.

Princess Maria Pia married Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia in 1955. Their four children:

• Prince Dimitri 1958
• Prince Michael 1958

• Prince Serge 1963
• Princess Helen 1963

The father of Serge and Helen is "probably" Prince Michel of Bourbon-Parma, who was married to Princess Yolande de Broglie-Revel at the time.

Maria Pia and Alexander divorced in 1967.
He married Princess Barbara of Liechtenstein in 1973;
She married Prince Michel of Bourbon-Parma in 2003.

nokklav 04-29-2006 08:05 AM

so she and prince michel had to be togetehr after all.....

purple_platinum 05-06-2006 11:14 AM

Prince Vittorio Emanuele of Savoy and wife Marina Doria at the Villa Pallavicino during their visit in Genova , Italy.
Prince Victor Emanuel stands at the balcony where his grand grand father was acclaimed by the people during a visit on 1892.
Genova Palazzo Pallavicino , Italy on May 4 , 2006.

from dpa

http://img126.imagevenue.com/loc129/...6_031201_4.jpg http://img106.imagevenue.com/loc115/...2_034601_4.jpg http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc294/...8_035101_4.jpg http://img111.imagevenue.com/loc58/t...3_035301_4.jpg http://img9.imagevenue.com/loc80/th_28428_058001_4.jpg http://img148.imagevenue.com/loc207/...3_058101_4.jpg

Harry's polo shirt 05-06-2006 09:26 PM

great photos thanks. how did Raffaello die?

Warren 05-07-2006 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry's polo shirt
how did Raffaello die?

I think he accidentally fell from a window of his college in Boston in April 1994.

Tosca 05-09-2006 09:50 AM

Yes this what they officially said, but Raffaello was reported to have suffered from depression, like his Mom also had. She often attempted to kill herself when she was young.

fanletizia 05-09-2006 10:32 AM

The second voting in the Italian Parliament to choose the president of the Republic concluded today without no of the candidates reached the majority necessary to replace the present head of the State, Car it Azeglio Ciampi. …
The secret character of the vote caused that some voters gave to null problems in favor of personalities like Maria Gabriella de Saboya, daughter of the last king of Italy, Umberto II;

http://actualidad.terra.es/nacional/...ion_870232.htm

Tosca 05-09-2006 12:00 PM

One of the canditate standing for president of the Republic is the splitting image of King Umberto II of Savoy. Of course there were rumors about his startling resemblance with the last King of Italy. He has always supported the Italian Communist Party (today's Democratic party of the Left), ironically. However his comrades nicknamed him "Prince", and former PM Berlusconi has always referred to him as "His Majesty".
http://img42.imagevenue.com/loc261/t...3_00001672.jpg (Giorgio Napolitano/from senato.it)

purple_platinum 05-10-2006 08:53 AM

May 03, 2006
Prince Vittorio Emanuele II of Savoy with wife Marina Doria at Villa Pallavicino.

from zumapress

http://img104.imagevenue.com/loc249/th_65392_s1.jpg http://img31.imagevenue.com/loc241/th_65396_s2.jpg http://img101.imagevenue.com/loc163/th_65401_s3.jpg http://img42.imagevenue.com/loc260/th_65405_s4.jpg

Tosca 06-05-2006 11:09 AM

The wedding of Vittorio Emanuele and MArina Doria on the cover of "OGGI"
http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc185/th_19848_08_1_b.jpg

Tosca 06-09-2006 11:16 AM

Prince Vittorio Emanuele & Princess Marina in Rome (U.Pizzi/dagospia)
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/740...oiarosa3je.jpg

zarat 06-16-2006 02:58 PM

Hello

I wasn't sure where put this infromation -it regards prince Emmanuele father's-prince Vittorio according to corriere.it he was arrrested because of participation in criminal organisation,exploit of prostitution, ecc.


http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C...6/savoia.shtml

Ariel 06-16-2006 03:11 PM

I couldnt believe it when i read it on the papers.

zarat 06-16-2006 03:23 PM

I took a glance at different italian sites- panorama,corriere,il tempo are reproducing the same text.
The prince was arrested this afternoon, in the same affair are involved about 20people.
They are accused of corruption, recycling, incentive to corruption.
The articles were talking also about market of videogames for gambling and girls destinated to work as prostitute in Casino royal.
I'm shocked, it's true I never liked this family for their behaviour not only no royal but from being a "parassite" ( they were called like this by italian press) to being arrested is a big step.
I remember a huge article dedicated to this family by Panorama few years ago when eventually they were allowed to come back to Italy ( I mean males because the law forbidding the return regarded only males descendant)- it was difficult to find something positive about them.
Just royals nothing- to-good.

It's very sad because for me being royal means behave better and be a model example for others (or at least try to do like this)

fanletizia 06-16-2006 05:33 PM

Vittorio Emanuele and Marina Doria current events, part 1
 
Italian king's son arrested

From: Reuters
From correspondents in Rome

June 17, 2006


PRINCE Victor Emmanuel, the 69-year-old son of Italy's last king, was arrested on overnight as part of an investigation into corruption and prostitution, a judicial source said.

The source confirmed reports by news agencies ANSA and AGI and state television RAI, which said Victor Emmanuel was arrested in the northern city of Lecco as part of a probe by magistrates based in the southern city of Potenza. Reports said investigators suspected him of having contacts with the Sicilian Mafia and of helping procure prostitutes for clients of a gambling casino in Campione d'Italia, an Italian enclave on Lake Lugano near the Swiss border.
Victor Emmanuel, who was 9 years old when the royal family went into exile, was involved in what ANSA called "criminal association abetting prostitution".

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117....html?from=rss

fanletizia 06-16-2006 05:44 PM

Vitorio Emanuele arrested
 
Prince Victor Emmanuel, grandson of Italy's last king, was reportedly arrested on suspicion of links to criminals involved in corruption and prostitution.

"I am stunned," Emmanuel Philibert, Victor Emmanuel's son, told Italian television, talking of "yet another publicity stunt".
"I hope (the prosecutor) is sure of his charges, or it will be the last time he does anything," said Philibert, who is married to French actress Clotilde Courau.
"They took him, they removed his mobile phone and are in the process of taking him to Potenza. They treated him like a bandit. You don't treat a man of 70 with health problems like that."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060616...t_060616205604

Toledo 06-16-2006 06:18 PM

I almost fell off the chair. I did a quick check and found the news posted from India to New Mexico! http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/45139.html
and http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleV...99325&rel_no=1
Maybe he knows someone that is the actual culprit? In high society you never know who does what behind the scenes

LaPlusBelle 06-16-2006 06:46 PM

This is shocking that they would arrest him. What does it mean, "Emmanuel Philibert, Victor Emmanuel's son, told Italian television, talking of "yet another publicity stunt"."? Do they think that this is only coming up so that the Italian Royals can be in the spotlight? Someone, please explain.

Jackswife 06-16-2006 06:47 PM

:eek: At first I thought this was a hoax item until the other reports started filtering in. This had to be a tremendous blow to Marina, Emmanuel, and the Savoie family. :( :(

Alexandria 06-16-2006 06:55 PM

This is pretty startling news. The charges against him seem pretty shocking, too -- a prince helping Mafia members get prostitutes?

I don't know much about him, but as he had no throne to rule, what has he done all these years to earn a living and such? And could such relations with the mafia be plausible for him?

I wonder how the other royals may react to this bit of news? For the likes of Juan Carlos, it may just be further confirmation that Victor Emmanuel is absolutely persona non grata at the Spanish court.

It will be interesting to see how this story develops.

bct88 06-16-2006 07:15 PM

This is very sad. I can't say that I feel bad for Vittorio Emanuele, because if this is true, and I am inclined to believe that it is, he brought it upon himself. I feel bad for his wife, Marina Doria, as well as his son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter.

Regarding the incident at the wedding of The Prince of Asturias, Vittorio Emanuele began arguing with his cousin, The Duke of Aosta, and Vittorio punched his cousin. His cousin fell and was caught by HM Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes. HM King Juan Carlos I reportedly stormed out of the palace (the Palacio Real in Madrid) shouting "nunca mas," which translates to "never again." That is what I had heard.

Toledo 06-16-2006 07:21 PM

Thanks BCT88.
It's too bad now they were able to go back to Italy and Filiberto and Clothilde are trying to bring some closure to the bad feelings associated with their family in the WW II. This will be another hard blow to recover from.

Adry 06-16-2006 07:31 PM

Its soo embarrasing :eek:

Lady Jennifer 06-16-2006 08:19 PM

The BBC now has a article about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5089462.stm

As bct88 said I feel sorry for his family.

asma 06-16-2006 09:29 PM

Poor Emanuele Filiberto,he is trying very hard to improve the family picture and his father simply destroy everything.

lise 06-16-2006 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Jennifer
The BBC now has a article about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5089462.stm

As bct88 said I feel sorry for his family.

I feel sory for his family too.

Tosca 06-17-2006 12:47 AM

Before putting the cart before the horse, you should know that in Italy the "Bench" has a certain political affiliation, that's (far) left wing, and some of its members won't forgive the previous government (centre/right) on several issues, including the return of the Savoy family to Italy. So, at the moment, the accusations are still to be shown.

m 12 06-17-2006 01:26 AM

I was totally shocked by this incident:eek:

Mandy 06-17-2006 03:00 AM

So then, he is guilty until proven innocent? :rolleyes:

fanletizia 06-17-2006 03:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Vittorio Emanuele to Potenza and in one cell alone In morning the date of the first interrogation would have to be known

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/06/sez...a-potenza.html

VITTORIO EMANUELE ARRIVED TO POTENZA's JAIL TO the 4.45

http://www.agenziagrt.it/www/notizia.asp?id=50993

Warren 06-17-2006 04:04 AM

Discussion of "the incident" at the Spanish Royal Wedding involving Prince Vittorio Emanuele and the Dule of Aosta can be found in this thread.

Sancia 06-17-2006 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy
So then, he is guilty until proven innocent? :rolleyes:

I've the impression it looks more and more like this, although it should be the whole contrary.

topastra 06-17-2006 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
Before putting the cart before the horse, you should know that in Italy the "Bench" has a certain political affiliation, that's (far) left wing, and some of its members won't forgive the previous government (centre/right) on several issues, including the return of the Savoy family to Italy. So, at the moment, the accusations are still to be shown.

Hey,we all know that he's not a saint...I'm not condemning him,but I don't think that the "bench" would make something like this without evidence...
We'll wait and see...

Sancia 06-17-2006 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topastra
Hey,we all know that he's not a saint...I'm not condemning him,but I don't think that the "bench" would make something like this without evidence...
We'll wait and see...

I could mention at least two affairs in the very last years which made terrible impression in France, where people were accused or condemned before we realized there was no evidence at all.

topastra 06-17-2006 06:06 AM

You're right,I only replied to Tosca that said that the "bench" has a far left political affiliation and arrested Vittorio Emanuele because they cannot forgive the previous government for the return of the Savoia family.I live in Italy and there were cases of "bad justice" here too,but they were not tied to the political affiliation of the judges or the accused.
:)

zarat 06-17-2006 06:36 AM

Hello

The whole italian press is talking about what happened to prince Vittorio Emmanuele.
His son is upset and is going to visit him prison at otenza (Basilicata, South Italy) to visit him. If he's wont' be allowed to see his father the prince Emmanuele Filiberto will begin hunger-strike.

Yestarday I found also in several italian sites the description of previous problems with law regarding prince Vittorio.
So the 17 august 1978 he was enjoying the sailing at his yacht near to Corse.
Close by his yacht were also two another boats. SOmebody from second yacht took the pontoon (small boat ) of prince propriety which obviously made him furious. He took his army and went to get back his propriety. During quarrel with people from second boat he done shoot in order to intimidate the opponent, Unfortunetely the ball hit german student- Dirk Hamer from third boat. German guy died after months of agony in hospital.
At the end of process he prnce was assolved of accuse to murder the student, he had only verdict for having illegally the arm..

The press was talking also about his membership in mason lodge- his nr is supposed to be 1621

I also found another information regarding not royal behaviour of prince Vittorio Emmanuele.
So according to different italian sites he didn't want to criticise anti'semitic laws enacted by Mussolini under his grandfather, King Victor Emmanuel III, he simply called them "not that terrible".
And he was sharply criticised for this tendence to minimise the evil of the anti-Semitic laws.

Toledo 06-17-2006 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren
Discussion of "the incident" at the Spanish Royal Wedding involving Prince Vittorio Emanuele and the Dule of Aosta can be found in this thread.

:eek: That link has a previous incident with the law I was not aware of, the yatch tragedy where someone lost his life and Victor Manuel was aquited of murder charges!

Warren 06-17-2006 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo
That link has a previous incident with the law I was not aware of, the yatch tragedy where someone lost his life and Victor Manuel was aquited of murder charges!

It was a big deal at the time. Point de Vue even went so far as to have a (very rare) editorial stating their concerns as to VE's suitability to be the Head of a Royal House.

Toledo 06-17-2006 10:48 AM

Then maybe is time he, and his ego, step aside and let Filiberto and Clotilde take over the responsibility of the headship of the family clan. Victor Emanuel is not helping the healing process between the House of Savoy and the people of Italy that his family once ruled upon.
His ego is bigger that his job.

kelly9480 06-17-2006 11:00 AM

How many people would consider EF and Clotilde responsible enough for the "job", though? The fact that she's an actress who went down the aisle while six months pregnant is not in her favor. That he seems just as trashy, if not as violent, as his father doesn't work in his favor, either. All this nonsense surrounding this branch of the family only makes the Aostas, with Amedeo's two out-of-wedlock children, look more respectable by comparison. Splitting the monarchists isn't going to help the Savoias at all, but I can't see too many monarchists lining up to pledge their continued allegiance to VE or EF.

Roxsteve 06-17-2006 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zarat
The whole italian press is talking about what happened to prince Vittorio Emmanuele.

Shameless! Royal or not, if you "kill" someone, you should do time for it. The German student's life was as valuable as any member of any royal house. < ed: Warren >. His son going on a hunger strike???? Do you really think so???

Toledo 06-17-2006 04:08 PM

If that was bad wait until you see what is out on the news wires today. I'm afraid his royal cousin from Bulgaria is going to be dragged into this mess. These are terrible news for both Royal Houses!

VITTORIO EMANUELE: FORMER BULGARIA PM SUSPECTED OF CORRUPTION
(AGI) - Potenza, Italy, June 17 - The Potenza investigation into the prostitution and video-poker ring has also involved the former prime minister of Bulgaria, who is one of Vittorio Emanuele's cousins. The former prime minister is being investigated for corruption. According to magistrates, Simeone of Bulgaria was involved in a related affair to do with selling buildings for 200 million euro. (AGI) -

Sancia 06-17-2006 04:37 PM

I read EF is investigated too.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/0...150562923.html

Toledo 06-17-2006 09:01 PM

What a mess, Danielane! How many people is Victor Manuel going to drag down with him!?! Even when they had nothing to do with the scandal, it will grow out of proportion and follow everyone forever. All the work Simeon has been doing in favor of a positive view of his family will now be ruined when his political opponents take these news back to Bulgaria and bring them up everywhere.

asma 06-17-2006 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelly9480
How many people would consider EF and Clotilde responsible enough for the "job", though? The fact that she's an actress who went down the aisle while six months pregnant is not in her favor. That he seems just as trashy, if not as violent, as his father doesn't work in his favor, either. All this nonsense surrounding this branch of the family only makes the Aostas, with Amedeo's two out-of-wedlock children, look more respectable by comparison. Splitting the monarchists isn't going to help the Savoias at all, but I can't see too many monarchists lining up to pledge their continued allegiance to VE or EF.


Do you think Amedeo, with two out of wedlock children ,is more respectable than EF and clotide? At least their daughter was born in a wedlock.

Toledo 06-17-2006 09:16 PM

Somehow I'm staring to see the House of Savoy's arch-rival House of Two-Sicilies (Borbone-Napoles) as the one having the last laugh in all this.

Warren 06-18-2006 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo
Somehow I'm staring to see the House of Savoy's arch-rival House of Two-Sicilies (Borbone-Napoles) as the one having the last laugh in all this.

I don't think any royals would be laughing when the royal "mystique" is severely tarnished in this manner.

zarat 06-18-2006 08:56 AM

http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/20...8/giannell.gif
Drawing from Corriere regarding prince Vittorio Emmanuele
Il Re probo= The Fair King

http://www.corriere.it/Media/Foto/20.../giannelli.jpg
another cartoon-the title "Avanti Savoia" means " Forward Savoya"

zarat 06-18-2006 09:21 AM

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/06/sez...portavoce.html
According to article from Repubbblica the prince didnt'sleep to much during his first night in jail at Potenza, he was even a bit ijured because of fall from high bed.
Until now he was visited by his lawyers which are thinking how to take him off the prison.
There are discrepancies about his health state- according to his son The prince Vittorio is a very sick man but his general check-up realised showed something different. Also his spirit is high- during conversation with representatives from party Forza Italia he even tried to joke.
However he was upset by the fact that his belt was taken and had to use plastic bags for his trousers
Until now his son wasn't seen at Potenza, he's supposed to be still at Paris (until tuesday family wont' be allowed to see him).
Another a bit funny and strange information (seeing circumstances), one of prince Vittorio Emmanuele 's sister- princessa Maria Gabriella described him as "credulone" it means credulous...
The same sister or second one said that he trusts "the last person which closes the door" (it means he's easy to be manipulated).

Toledo 06-18-2006 09:59 AM

On my way out of the Forum I just found a more detailed news link from Bulgaria that has new information: Italian Scandal with Bulgarian Trace

I'll be tonight to read more news.

lucien 06-18-2006 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxsteve
Shameless! Royal or not, if you "kill" someone, you should do time for it. The German student's life was as valuable as any member of any royal house. < ed: Warren >. His son going on a hunger strike???? Do you really think so???

Going on a hunger strike?Who?EF?Kidding,and his timing for sense of drama only adds to the whole hazzle to all outside this infamous family.The Savoias are redeculed all over.VE was set free of charges in the case above,incredible law system or better the tampering with it.

Tosca 06-19-2006 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topastra
Hey,we all know that he's not a saint...I'm not condemning him,but I don't think that the "bench" would make something like this without evidence...
We'll wait and see...

In Italy that's more than likely. This wouldn't be the first time. I'm not a fan of the Savoy family, and I'm well aware he's no saint at all. I agree with his sister Gabriella when she says he' s a sucker. I think that he's been used by the "mob" rather than believing he's the boss of a gang. He isn't smart enough...;)
Besides, don't forget we're going to vote at an important referendum next week, and this story could be used to distract the public opinion from more important issues regarding our country.

fanletizia 06-19-2006 07:21 AM

A combo picture of frame grabs from a video taken 07 May 2005 by Italian police, as part of the evidence for the 16 June 2006 arrest of Prince Victor Emmanuel, grandson of Italy's last king, on suspicion of links to criminals involved in corruption and prostitution allegedly shows the prince (L) meeting with Italian businessmen Ugo Bonazza and Rocco Migliardi in the gardens of the residence Villa D'Este in Cernobbio northern Italy and receiving from them a bag containing 10,000 euros before placing it in his pocket. Victor Emmanuel will appear before a judge in the southern city of Potenza in the next few days

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/745...62065wg.th.jpg

from getty

Toledo 06-19-2006 07:30 AM

Wow, he was caught in the act!
Has his sister, Princess Gabriela of Savoy, been interviewed on Italian TV about her reaction? Last time I heard of her was around two or three Point de Vue issues ago.

zarat 06-19-2006 09:07 AM

drawing of prince Vittorio cell.
In the centre the bad from which the prince fall during the night (he was trying to go down and unfortunately he fall)

http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C...op_cella.shtml

zarat 06-19-2006 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo
Wow, he was caught in the act!
Has his sister, Princess Gabriela of Savoy, been interviewed on Italian TV about her reaction? Last time I heard of her was around two or three Point de Vue issues ago.

Hello Toledo
Here's link for interview with one of the prince's sisters- hers opinion about brother isn't too positive I would say...


http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C...umagalli.shtml

Tosca 06-19-2006 10:35 AM

For those who can read Italian there are some interesting article about VE's currrent events at www.dagospia.it This site has been proved more reliable than many "serious" newspapers and tabloids, despite its funny format. It apparently has no political affiliation either.

Tosca 06-19-2006 12:30 PM

Like father, like son??? (olycom)
http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/4...001w0dl.th.jpg[img=http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5521/000009w3jk.th.jpg]

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/2058/000010l2ev.jpg

Tosca 06-19-2006 01:07 PM

This week's issue of Novella2000. It reads: the Prince of Darkness (via dagospia)
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1...ella6eh.th.jpg

Toledo 06-19-2006 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zarat
Here's link for interview with one of the prince's sisters-

Thanks, you might be interested in another thread in Royal Forums that mentions the tense relationship between Princess Maria Gabriella and her hot-headed brother. I can't recall which thread but is about the ladies in the life of the Shah of Iran. Princess Maria Gabriela was prevented from getting married to him (thus she and not Farah would have become Empress of Iran) because of her brother's interference. Seems there is no love lost between the two siblings for quite some decades now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
Like father, like son??? (olycom)

Please tell me that dame is not Clotilde! :eek:
Looks like the 3 pictures are from a party, so they really don't count much.

Sancia 06-19-2006 04:19 PM

This is definitely not Clotilde.

Toledo 06-19-2006 05:01 PM

Then, I can breathe again.

There is another news wire I just read from 6 hours ago on wire taps placed (?) on Victor Emanuel. It's a short article so maybe if we wait some more hours another news agency will elaborate further.
WIRE TAPS: MASTELLA THERE CANNOT BE THIS HUNGER FOR TAPS
(AGI) - Milan, Jun. 19


This other news link is kind of funny and yet, disturbing:

Italy's would-be monarch a crime king
19 June 2006 http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/images/null.gifBy DESMOND O'GRADY
Sydney Morning Herald
ROME: If it were not for the postwar referendum that went against the monarchy, Victor Emmanuel would be king of Italy instead of cooling his heels in prison. This scion of the Savoy royal family, which united Italy and ruled it until 1948, has been imprisoned on charges that include rigging casino games and favouring prostitution...

...The House of Savoy is one of Europe's oldest and richest royal families. Custodian of the supposed Shroud of Christ, it has produced some canonised saints but Victor Emmanuel is unlikely to be a candidate.
In 1976, he was tried for killing a 19-year-old German, Dirk Hamer, as he slept on the deck of his family's yacht off Corsica but a French court decided the fatal bullet had come from elsewhere.
In 1997, he said fascism's anti-Semitic laws - approved by the Savoy royal house - "weren't so terrible". He later retracted the statement.

Sancia 06-20-2006 11:41 AM

VE was questionned for the first time today. If someone has infos, it would be interesting.

Tosca 06-20-2006 01:16 PM

There are no more info at the moment. All is covered by secrecy concerning the documentation of pre-trial investigation.

maidmarion 06-20-2006 02:28 PM

House of Savoy Info on VE
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosca
There are no more info at the moment. All is covered by secrecy concerning the documentation of pre-trial investigation.

This what I found in the "Royalty of the World" web site. Makes for an interesting read. :confused:

http://www.royalty.nu/news.html

charlottestreasures 06-20-2006 04:01 PM

I just read a newspaper article that said Prince Victor's 34-year-old son, Emanuele Filiberto, has also been arrested. Is this true?

This is the link the story.
http://euronews.net/create_html.php?...e=364961&lng=1


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises