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lashinka2002 09-05-2005 12:57 PM

Frances Shand Kydd (1936-2004) - Diana's mother
 
Does anyone know anything about Diana's biological mother?
I don't know very much about her.
How did she feel about her daughter's marraige and the outcome?
I found an interesting article I'll post
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...?id=1887152005

tiaraprin 09-05-2005 01:09 PM

Diana's mother, the Honourable Frances Burke Roche, was born in early 1936 to Baron Fermoy and his wife Ruth. She went on to marry Diana's father, Viscount Althorp in 1954 and gave birth to Sarah, Jane, John (died shortly after birth), Diana, and Charles.

Diana had a tumultous relationship with her mother due to the fact that her mother was a "bolter". She left her family for another man, Peter Shand-Kydd, in 1967. A bitter divorce and custody case followed where Frances' mother, Lady Fermoy, testified against her own daughter in favor of her son-in-law (basically because he was an aristocrat). Her mother was a Lady of the Bedchamber to the Queen Mother and was scandalized by what her daughter did. Frances lost custody of her children but married Peter Shand-Kydd. Many years later, Peter Shand-Kydd left Frances to go back to his first wife.

I think at first her mother was proud of her daughter marrying the heir to the British throne, but eventually changed her mind when she saw what was happening to her daughter. She also fought much with Diana; supposedly their last fight was about Diana dating people outside her "race" i.e. Hasnat Khan. Diana was still not speaking to her mother when she died in 1997.

auntie 09-05-2005 01:17 PM

Diana's mum left her first husband for another man, in the custody battle her own mother who was lady in waiting for the queens mother testified against her and she lost custody of her children, especially harmed were her 2 youngest children, Diana and her brother, as they were young and sent off to a boarding school. She had to suffer hostility from everyone, only to have her own husband leave her for another woman. What goes around, comes around...

iowabelle 09-05-2005 01:55 PM

I don't know how true it is, but I have heard that there may have been spousal abuse in the marriage and the then Viscount Althorp may have had a drinking problem. Pile that on top of their age difference, the loss of one child soon after birth (the boy born before Diana) and the pressure brought on Frances to have a male heir, it's no real wonder that Frances might have wanted to get out of the marriage. (As with Charles and Diana, there's many factors that go into the disintegration of a marriage.)

As for Diana and her brother Charles, children of that class are sent off to boarding school routinely (after all, Diana let her own children go to boarding school). It might have actually been worse for them to stay with either parent during the turmoil.

It is a shame that the Althorps weren't able to work out a civil method of separating without harming their children, especially the younger pair.

Jose 09-05-2005 02:22 PM

Dianas mother was Frances Shand Kydd born 20 january 1936. She was love mother to Princess Diana and she married Peter 1988. Frances married John Earl of Spencer many years after they divorced.Earl of Spencer married lady Raine of Darmouth Cartland is daugheter to famous wrote Barbara Cartland. Barbara Cartland was born 1901 9 july and she death 2000 may.Barbara was near 99th year before she death. Lady Raine was much friend to Princess Diana after his father death 1991. Frances have five children and many grandchildren,sister. Frances was sorry much after her daugheter Dianas death 1997.
Diana was daughter to Earl and Frances of Spencer and stepdaughter to Raine Cartland.Diana was stepgrandchildren to Barbara Cartland.Frances have farewell to Princess Dianas funeral 1997 and stepmother Raine come Princess Dianas funeral,she farewell to Princess Diana. His mother Barbara sitting on his house in London and tv on Princess Dianas funeral.Dianas mother Frances death 3 june 2004 68 yearin Scotland. She have hosue on Scotland Island,much she love on house many years to Frances dies.Frances children and grandchildren,husband Peter and Frances sister,sisterschildren,sistergrandchildren on Frances funeral.Queen Elizabeth and prince Philip,brothers,sister to Prince Charles,Dianas exhusband Prince Charles telegrams flowers to Frances funeral.

EmpressRouge 09-05-2005 05:14 PM

The wedding of the Honourable Frances Burke Roche and Viscount Althorp was huge deal social event in 1954, as evidenced by the fact that they were married in Westminster Abbey. That was the reason (at least one) why Diana did not want her wedding at Westminster (the site of most weddings for the British Royals); it reminded her of her parents' bitter divorce.

iowabelle 09-05-2005 05:30 PM

I think the wedding was held at St. Paul's more for the need for additional seating than out of consideration for Diana's feelings.

Jackswife 09-05-2005 06:14 PM

Frances was fairly young when she married Johnny Spencer, and though it was a love match at first, after a few years the marriage really deteriorated. Diana grew up largely in an atmosphere of hostility and bickering. One month after her divorce became final Frances married Peter Shand Kydd, whom the Spencer children apparently liked. (He later left Frances for another woman). Some sources say that Frances and Diana were not spekaing at the time of her death, others say they were. I guess the bottom line on Frances would be that she managed the typical still upper lip of the aristocratic class until she found Peter Shand Kydd, and then she threw over her marriage and children in a way that her own mother, Lady Fermoy, never forgave her for. I think it was this kind of childhood that contributed to Diana's insecurities and hypersensitivity.:(

sara1981 09-06-2005 05:58 PM

i read Diana's books they says Diana dont talking her mother anymore on her phones and Diana got slammed by the phones at her mother for more reasons on Hello magazines they her mother talking about Diana married to Prince Charles and her mother proud of Diana married to Prince Charles but Diana dont listen to her mother till she died on August 31st they her mother got shock about Diana's accident.

Sara Boyce

pollyemma 09-06-2005 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sara1981
i read Diana's books they says Diana dont talking her mother anymore on her phones and Diana got slammed by the phones at her mother for more reasons on Hello magazines they her mother talking about Diana married to Prince Charles and her mother proud of Diana married to Prince Charles but Diana dont listen to her mother till she died on August 31st they her mother got shock about Diana's accident.

Sara Boyce

Diana apparently would be estranged from different members of her family at different times. they would always work it out though.

her mother has spoken out very strongly against some of Mohammed Al Fayed's more ridiculous conspiracy theories. I like that she did that.

lashinka2002 09-07-2005 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiaraprin
had a tumultous relationship with her mother due to the fact that her mother was a "bolter". She left her family for another man, Peter Shand-Kydd, in 1967. A bitter divorce and custody case followed where Frances' mother, Lady Fermoy, testified against her own daughter in favor of her son-in-law (basically because he was an aristocrat). Her mother was a Lady of the Bedchamber to the Queen Mother and was scandalized by what her daughter did. Frances lost custody of her children but married Peter Shand-Kydd. Many years later, Peter Shand-Kydd left Frances to go back to his first wife.

How sad that Diana's mother Frances' mother testified against her. For one's mother to turn on her like that must have been devastating & then to loose your kids? Frances must have been terribly unhappy in that marriage probably unbearable. It's obvious why she and Diana had trouble communicating. Frances had a terrible relationship with her mother and maybe did not know how to make a solid relationship with her daughter as a result of that. Does anyone know if Frances' mother, Lady Fermoy ever regretted testifying against her daughter? Were there ever any words said by her about it?

tiaraprin 09-07-2005 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lashinka2002
How sad that Diana's mother Frances' mother testified against her. For one's mother to turn on her like that must have been devastating & then to loose your kids? Frances must have been terribly unhappy in that marriage probably unbearable. It's obvious why she and Diana had trouble communicating. Frances had a terrible relationship with her mother and maybe did not know how to make a solid relationship with her daughter as a result of that. Does anyone know if Frances' mother, Lady Fermoy ever regretted testifying against her daughter? Were there ever any words said by her about it?

Lady Fermoy was from the "Old School". One's place in society was the most important thing. If one's marriage was bad, one stayed no matter what due to position and scandal. Lady Fermoy was embarrassed by her daughter's "defiance" of the social pecking order and testified against her. I don't believe Lady Fermoy ever regretted her choice. She even sided against Diana when her marriage crumbled. Lady Fermoy was a courtier, through and through.

Incas 09-07-2005 02:55 PM

It does make the Fermoy-Spencers seem like social climbers. The Fermoys was only a Baron. Francis got married to an Earl. And her daughter did one better to get hitched with the heir to the throne.

iowabelle 09-07-2005 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incas
It does make the Fermoy-Spencers seem like social climbers. The Fermoys was only a Baron. Francis got married to an Earl. And her daughter did one better to get hitched with the heir to the throne.

It's the way of the British aristocracy, after all.

And the Spencers had profited by serving the monarchy for hundreds of years.

maryshawn 10-19-2005 09:18 PM

Diana's mother "reconciled" with her mother on Lady Fermoy's deathbed. But the bitterness was there for years. Unfortunately, Frances did not have the chance to reconcile with her own daughter after giving an interview saying she was glad her daughter had lost her HRH title. I've read a number of books which portray Frances as a lost soul who lived a very lonely life after her last divorce. There are a few reporters who duly reported what she told them, then let the word slip out she was slurring her words and liked to drink. And she was arrested for drunk driving several years before her death. I think Diana was very wounded by all the tumult in her family and felt her mother had sold her out when she gave these interviews about her. I mean, if you can't confide in your family and expect some privacy and confidentiality, who can you really trust? And that seems to be one of Diana's biggest issues: She just didn't know who to trust and often questioned people's motives.

iowabelle 10-20-2005 07:51 PM

To be fair to Frances, the slurring reporters noted might have been caused by the condition that ultimately killed her. I'm not totally sure, but it sounded like Parkinson's to me.

tiaraprin 10-20-2005 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle
I think the wedding was held at St. Paul's more for the need for additional seating than out of consideration for Diana's feelings.

This is true. When courtiers complained there would not be enough guards to line the route, Charles told them "Space them further apart". Diana was given a paltry amount of invitations for her family and friends. Most seats went to royals and foreign dignitaries.

Zonk 10-20-2005 08:40 PM

I knew Francis and Peter divorced because he left her for another woman..but I didn't realize he went back to his first wife. Its a shame..but what goes around comes around.

One of the best quotes...When a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy stated by Sir James Goldsmith. (It could have come from some earlier...but thats who I first heard it from).

I agree..it was rather foul of Lady Fermory to stand with her son-in-law...but it was a different time and place. Not to retread an issue which I am sure has been discussed in the past...but I believe (again just my opinion) if Diana had accepted Camilla as Charles mistress. Things could be very different today. Mind you..I am not saying I would (if in the same situation) accept my husband having a mistress but to a lot of people (who are trying to maintain a certain life sytle) that is their reality.

maryshawn 10-20-2005 09:11 PM

That's true. Mr. Burrell, whose loyalty I now question, said Diana referred to her mother as a "drunk." But who knows if Diana even knew her mother had this condition. And Mr. Burrell likes to spin things and I believe attributes comments of his own to Diana--now that she's no longer around to refute them.:mad:
Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle
To be fair to Frances, the slurring reporters noted might have been caused by the condition that ultimately killed her. I'm not totally sure, but it sounded like Parkinson's to me.


Zonk 10-20-2005 09:46 PM

You know..lately I too have questioned Paul Burrell's motives. In the last issue of Majesty magazine (with the Duchess of York on the cover) it is suggested that he had something to do with Diana's estrangement from Sarah. Basically he told Diana that Sarah supposedly said some things about her...before I heard she (Diana) was mad how Sarah depicted her in her book.

Now..I know some question Sarah's methods but it does beg the question: Did Paul Burrell (in order to increase Diana's dependency on him) put little bugs in her ear regarding her relationships with other people? Thus leading to her estrangement from certain people.


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