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karima 04-07-2005 01:41 PM

Marriage to Commoners
 
it seems to be a trend, nowadays, that Princes and Princesses marry ordinary people. Charles and Camilla, Haakon and MM, Frederic and Mary, Felipe and Laetizia, VIctoria and her gym teacher.........

what do you think about that? Have they or are they getting resistance from the royal families?

KikkiB 04-07-2005 04:49 PM

I think the royal families of Europe have accepted that their members will marry commoners (though, not all commoners, but middle class and upwards in the social ladder). I don't think that the royal families can dictate who their members should marry in the 21st century. And royal marriages aren't the political game it used to be, now it's just love. At least that's my opinion, and I think that the royal members also know that they have the right to marry for love like everybody else has. And from a genetic point of view, marrying commoners might be a smart idea, to get some fresh blood (i.e. Both King Haakon and Queen Maud and King Olav and Princess Märtha were first cousins).

MoonlightRhapsody 04-07-2005 05:41 PM

Marriage to commoners bring up a very difficult situation. The upside of a royal marrying a royal is that both know the score in that they have been trained to the role they would assume from birth. With a commoner, there is no such treatment and it must be a difficult transition. Yes, you become royal and famous, but the payback for such glamorous lifestyle is the unforgiving scrutiny of the entire nation and the world. One minor misstep and you could be portrayed as the most uneducated royal.

On the otherhand, having a spouse from "the other side of the fence" could be a refreshing air to the monarchy. For instance, the marriage of Princess Diana invigorated the outlook of the British Royal Family and endeared them to the public for showing them as human. Princess Grace of Monaco also infused the country with a new vitality that was missing before her marriage to Rainier. And she was not only a commoner, but a foreign actress, as well!

The key, I think, is how well royal advisers and coaches train the commoner for their new status. If they have trained them well like with Princess Alexandra and Crown Princess Mary of Denmark, the transition would be cushioned. The alternative would be like Crown Princess Masako of Japan and Prince Consort Henrik of Denmark where they had a difficult time adjusting to the sometimes unreasonable constraints brought upon by being a part of the royal family.

GrandDuchess 04-07-2005 06:23 PM

Ever since it was announced in the late 60's that King Harald (then Crown Prince) were to marry commoner Sonja Haraldsen, and the heated dicussion of the monarchy's future in Norway ended in the acceptance of their marriage and her becoming their Crown Princess, the trend of both monarchs, heirs and royals marrying commoners has continued and I'm sure it will also in the future. King Harald took the first step, and after them followed many other, and even more will follow. Perhaps we will see some exeptions, but I think the absolute majority of royal weddings in the future will result in more commoners entering the Royal Houses.

So far I think the result is just positive, we've seen wonderful Queens, Princesses and a few Princes entering our beloved Royal Families and it has done a lot of good to them. Great personalities and new faces which have all provided a lot of great things, and perhaps most important of all renewal and modernisation of the old Courts and Royal Households. Perhaps many years from now, when some generations have passed in the Royal Houses, it will become an issue that there is almost no "royal blood" left and perhaps the republicans will use that argument then - but not in these times.

An interesting thing that I've thought about is how the princely, aristocratic and noble families of Europe have continued marry into each other's families, within their own circles, just like the royals did in the old days - but while they've contined, the royal haven't (generally speaking).

Genevieve 04-07-2005 08:49 PM

I agree with you both Moonlightrhapsody and GrandDuchess.

Even though many of the present queens and princesses are commoners, I don't think any of them have harmed or damaged their respective monarchies. They have added a different aspect to their respective royal families in that they bring a different sense and awareness of the world.

To exclude commoners would mean that we wouldn't have such wonderful queens such as Silvia or Sonja or Maria Teresa. To exclude commoners would mean that we wouldn't have Letizia or Maxima or Alexandra or Laurentien or Claire.

And if the royals only stuck to marrying each other then at some point they wouldn't be able to marry at all with all the intermingled family relations.

Being royal born doesn't always mean better behaved or better adjusted. There are plenty of royal born men and women who have brought tremendous scandal to their families. Look at Stephanie of Monarco or Margriet of the Netherlands. If these two women had married into other royal families then who would we blame for these bad reputations being brought to royal families? And then two royal families would be affected - what good would that be then?

Alisa 04-07-2005 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genevieve
. Look at Stephanie of Monarco or Margriet of the Netherlands. If these two women had married into other royal families then who would we blame for these bad reputations being brought to royal families? And then two royal families would be affected - what good would that be then?

I think you mean Princess Margarita of Bourbon-Parme,and not Princess Margriet of the Netherlands.

karima 04-08-2005 09:24 AM

Hi all,

In the regards of your responses, can we fairly question the relevance of the Monarchy today?

Freedom 04-08-2005 10:15 AM

Karima, first let me say I like this thread. Thank you for creating it. :)

Now as to the trend toward marrying commoners:
Any commononer who marries a royal (or aristocrat, etc), I would bet is no commoner. Perhaps by birth or current financial status they could be deemed common, but I would bet there is something to their disposition that also puts them, with ease, into another classification.

semisquare 04-08-2005 06:29 PM

here's a thought on this subject-
-its renews a royal family example outside of the brits is norway, spain, im sure yence get the point
but here's a question-does anyone think if a soon to be crown prince marries a person who is not white will be accepted?(someone who is black)

lamass 04-09-2005 01:03 AM

to answer your questionsemisquare,
i think it matters on the country that the crown prince will reign over. if the country is Japan then i can say that they would probably not be accepted. i don't know much about each royal house in europe but there are some that it may be acceptable .
it matters on the woman and the country.

Reina 04-09-2005 01:35 AM

I think marriage to commoners is becoming tacky now.

bigheadshirmp 04-09-2005 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamass
to answer your questionsemisquare,
i think it matters on the country that the crown prince will reign over. if the country is Japan then i can say that they would probably not be accepted. i don't know much about each royal house in europe but there are some that it may be acceptable .
it matters on the woman and the country.

i very much agree with you! like mette-marit - a single mother with a past, maybe accepted in Norway, but it is unlikely that she will be able to marry into the British royal familiy to a crown prince....i think it really depends on the which royal house and the background of the commoner princess...

if it is like Princess Alexandra of Denmark, or pincess mary of denmark....with a middle class background, well educated......then i dun see a problem with these women marrying into royalty....at least it won't make a big controvensial (like Letizia being a divorcee, Maxima's dad?, and mette-marit with a single mother with a son)

karima 04-09-2005 12:48 PM

Well said!
I guess Charles marrying Camilla today is also going to be an argument in favour of thos who think we can modernize the monarchy with divorce, single parenting and so on....
I hope, this is not going to be the trend. It would be a pity that the monarchy should just mimic ordinary people. It is never a happy moment to divorce, have a baby as a single parent,...not matter what people say.

lashinka2002 04-09-2005 07:00 PM

I am not familiar with this royal couple but
How about King Hussein and Queen Noor
She is American

Genevieve 04-10-2005 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lashinka2002
I am not familiar with this royal couple but
How about King Hussein and Queen Noor
She is American

Noor's family was wealthy (upper middle class at least) and prominent however. She did not come from a middle class upbringing as Mary or Mette-Marit did. Noor's father also had some dealings with King Hussein - that is how she met him when she was very young. Through a business trip she accompanied her father on.

Maxima also came from a wealthy and prominent family. You cannot compare Maxima and Noor to Mary and Mette-Marit.

sommone 04-10-2005 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semisquare
here's a thought on this subject-
-its renews a royal family example outside of the brits is norway, spain, im sure yence get the point
but here's a question-does anyone think if a soon to be crown prince marries a person who is not white will be accepted?(someone who is black)


I have often wondered this myself....However, I didn't post it anywhere because I didn't want to turn the thread it was posted in into a debate on race. What got me to thinking about it was after joing the forums almost a year ago, I discovered that a prince from Liechtenstein had married a black/hispanic woman (Maximillian and Angela)...To be honest, I was completely shocked. That's when I got to thinking about a crown prince marrying a black woman... I just don't think any of the remaining royal houses are ready for this.

pallas athina 04-10-2005 10:27 PM

well, as albert II is the only heir/current ruler still available that i can think of, do you think the people of monaco would accept a person of color? i read on alt.royalty sometime ago that he had wanted to marry a black women but that princess grace had said no. i don't know how true that is.

karima 04-10-2005 10:48 PM

A black crown princess? Why not,
this might come from a scandinavian royalty since they usually break grounds...

lashinka2002 04-12-2005 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genevieve
Noor's family was wealthy (upper middle class at least) and prominent however. She did not come from a middle class upbringing as Mary or Mette-Marit did. Noor's father also had some dealings with King Hussein - that is how she met him when she was very young. Through a business trip she accompanied her father on.

Maxima also came from a wealthy and prominent family. You cannot compare Maxima and Noor to Mary and Mette-Marit.

I ws not comparing them, just simply stating that Queen Noor was a commoner. :o

Alisa 04-12-2005 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reina
I think marriage to commoners is becoming tacky now.

It is the type of commoners that are marrying into the royal family that is becoming tacky.

While I personally prefer royal-royal, royal-noble, and royal-aristocratic matches; I can tolerate a royal-commoner match provided that the commoner comes from a good family with little or no scandals.

However that has not been happening, so far we've had two divorcees, single mother, a woman whose father was involved with the death of millions of people..etc.

Today there doesn't seem to be a limit as to what is no longer unsuitable. That is what is becoming tacky, imo.


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