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-   -   Are Royal born princesses more accepted? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f235/are-royal-born-princesses-more-accepted-5262.html)

Lena 03-01-2005 10:50 AM

Are Royal born princesses more accepted?
 
Reading on this and other boards I´ve wondered one thing: Are princesses, who are daughters of sovereigns (or crown prince(ss)) more accepted than commoners, who married a prince, and who became princess, among Royal watchers?
I notice, that new princesses like Letizia and Mary are extremly popular, but IMO they also have to face harder criticism than e.g Märtha Louise, Victoria, Madeleine, Christina or Elena.

cd_1 03-01-2005 01:05 PM

yes, i think they are more accepted too. Even though Mary and Letizia are really popular, they have to work harder than those who are born royal. Furthermore, those princess born royal have a strong support network among the royal community. Theyare all friends of their parents, their relatives, etc. So in a sense I think they feel more secure in such community, its like they are marrying into their own family. whereas commoners are looked upon as outsiders, and are first recieved with hestitaion, background checks are made, etc. and if they make mistakes, then they, in my opinion, are more harshly critisized.

wittykitty 03-01-2005 04:48 PM

Yes, If your a born princess the press cut's more slack evne if your lazy dumb as a rock type what wants to use a title as a cash cow
remember even a formal education was not essential to become a queen.
wittykitty.

akina21 03-01-2005 09:22 PM

Not if they come from Germany and take part in reality tv shows .

sara1981 03-01-2005 09:31 PM

i vote said yes!

but i never know that Crown Princess Mary been popular in Denmark and also Letizia, Maxima and Mathilde too.

and late Diana,Princess of Wales been so popular Princess because she is daughter of late 8th Earl Spencer many people really adores of her lots since 1981-1997 for 15 years.

have more popular as Princess,Countess or Duchess?

Sara Boyce

Alexandria 03-01-2005 11:11 PM

A very interesting poll question Lena! I think that this will lead to a very interesting discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lena
I notice, that new princesses like Letizia and Mary are extremly popular, but IMO they also have to face harder criticism than e.g Märtha Louise, Victoria, Madeleine, Christina or Elena.

I think there is a slight difference in the reasoning for the criticism amongst the above examples. Martha Louise, Madeleine, Cristina and Elena share similar roles (amongst each other) in that they are the sisters of the heir to the thrones; while Letizia, Mary, Maxima, Mathilde, et. al. are the future queens of their respective countries. The demands and expectations on the present Crown Princesses are much different than the demands and expectations on their (royal born) sister-in-laws.

Martha Louise, Cristina, Elena, and when she finishes school Madeleine, all have jobs on top of their royal duties, while Letizia, Mary, Maxima, Mathilde's sole jobs are to perform royal duties. In that sense I think less is expected of the former because their time is divided. If Cristina and Elena each only do 25 royal duties a year there isn't too much public fuss over the cost of the monarchy being exorbitant or public outcries of King Juan Carlos' daughters being lazy. But if Letizia were to perform only 25 royal duties in one year, I'm certain that there would be public outcries of Letizia being lazy and living off the Spanish tax payers money (and rightfully so).

The Crown Princesses also have much pressure to produce an heir -- a pressure that has weighed much less (if at all) on Martha Louise, Cristina, Elena and presumably Madeleine when the time comes for her. Maud Angelica and Froilan were respectively, the Norwegian and Spanish King's first grandchildren. And while I noticed the Norwegian and Spanish press much anticipated and chronicled these arrivals, there was much more pressure on Mette-Marit to produce a child -- a child, Ingrid Alexandra, who is now the heir to the throne. And consider the constant, incessant speculation and predictions of when Letizia will announce that she is pregnant, and all the rumours and stories of why she is not pregnant yet. I don't think I ever read one story about why Elena and Cristina didn't have children yet only 5 months after their marriage or stories about how Elena's high heels were causing her infertility problems.

Victoria is in a class of her own in that she will be the Queen of Sweden, and not "only" the Queen Consort, as Letizia, Mary, Maxima, Mathilde and Mette-Marit will be. Although all the pressures faced by the other crown princesses (hard working enough, when will she produce an heir) will also follow Victoria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cd_1
Furthermore, those princess born royal have a strong support network among the royal community. Theyare all friends of their parents, their relatives, etc. So in a sense I think they feel more secure in such community, its like they are marrying into their own family. whereas commoners are looked upon as outsiders, and are first recieved with hestitaion, background checks are made, etc. and if they make mistakes, then they, in my opinion, are more harshly critisized.

I think this is a really good point cd_1. Cristina, Elena, Martha Louise, Astrid, etc. grew up with royal expectations drilled into them, or at least they learned from the examples of their parents about royal life, protocol, expectations, etc. Letizia, Mary, Mette-Marit all came from middle-class/upper-middle class backgrounds and with the exception of Letizia, none of them ever lived a second in the public eye until meeting their respective princely husbands. Becoming a royal is a big adjustment. Life in a fish bowl would be, for me, the biggest adjustment because your life is no longer your own and subject to all sorts of scrutiny by hundreds, thousands of people who don't know you but feel that they know you or that they have a right to judge and criticize you because of what you're wearing, your actions, how you carry yourself, etc. Even one little mis-step by any of these ladies can lead to tremendous criticism on the media and public's part. (I think Mette-Marit received the most heavy criticism of all the Crown Princesses for her "colourful" past.)

When you think about born royals who have led "colourful" lives which are just as "colourful" as Mette-Marit's, or just as "un-royal" as Mette-Marit's (eg. Stephanie of Monaco, Margrita of the Netherlands, Frederick of Great Britain), they are indeed subject to much less scruitiny because their parents were princesses or dukes -- although they are much less "significant" royals in comparison to Crown Princesses.

It's also sexist, but I think in most cases men are not subjected to as much criticism as women. Prince Harry has certainly had his missteps rather publicly chronicled and has been raked through the coals for them, but not as much as the public outcry over Mette-Marit in her first months as Crown Princess or when she made equally public mis-steps such as the airline incident when she yelled (and I think slapped at her assistant's hand). And how much ink has been spilled over Letizia's weight issue in comparison to Prince Ernst August's peeing incident on the Turkish pavilion several years ago.

bad_barbarella 03-01-2005 11:31 PM

It completely depends how they are raised some rich girls are raised like princesses so protcol and ettique and dress wouldn't be a problem but those who live a more normal life and suddenly change... like Mary had to work hard to become who she is today... yet Princess Sybilla of Luxembourg seems as natural as a born princess... but in saying that not all rich girls fit the royal protcol like harry's ex girlfriend.

Dennism 03-02-2005 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandria
It's also sexist, but I think in most cases men are not subjected to as much criticism as women. Prince Harry has certainly had his missteps rather publicly chronicled and has been raked through the coals for them, but not as much as the public outcry over Mette-Marit in her first months as Crown Princess or when she made equally public mis-steps such as the airline incident when she yelled (and I think slapped at her assistant's hand). And how much ink has been spilled over Letizia's weight issue in comparison to Prince Ernst August's peeing incident on the Turkish pavilion several years ago.


Well said, Alexandria. There is a little bit of bias. Not to forget the general lack of criticism when it comes to men and their clothes. Is there any more information about Mette-Marit´s plane incident? I had not heard of that.

saloua 03-02-2005 09:38 AM

yes she is born princess with (maya ) in mouth

Alexandria 03-02-2005 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad_barbarella
Princess Sybilla of Luxembourg seems as natural as a born princess...

Princess Sybilla is royal or at least from nobility isn't she? Which would make Sybilla more than just a woman who came from a wealthy background. While her family may not be as prominent as Cristina, Elena, Astrid, Madeleine, she still grew up with and is familiar with some royal protocol and expectations.

Warren 03-02-2005 11:40 AM

To the Manor Born
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandria
Princess Sybilla is royal or at least from nobility isn't she? Which would make Sybilla more than just a woman who came from a wealthy background. While her family may not be as prominent as Cristina, Elena, Astrid, Madeleine, she still grew up with and is familiar with some royal protocol and expectations.

Princess Sybilla is the daughter of Donna Olimpia and Paul-Annik Weiller.

Donna Olimpia is the daughter of Infanta Beatriz of Spain, who married the 5th Prince of Civitella-Cesi. This wedding in 1935 was a particularly glittering Royal event, attended by King Alfonso, the King and Queen of Italy, and "52 Princes of the Royal Blood."

The Infanta Beatriz was the sister of King Juan Carlos's father, the Count of Barcelona. They were two of the children of King Alfonso XIII and Queen Ena.

Thus Princess Sybilla has the distinction of being a descendent of Queen Victoria.

In other words, she was Royal in all but name. And now she is a Royal Highness. It is no surprise that she has assumed the role of a Princess of Luxembourg with such grace.

Dennism 03-02-2005 10:10 PM

Thanks for all of that information. Good of you to tell us all about Sybilla´s family.

Genevieve 03-02-2005 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren
Princess Sybilla is the daughter of Donna Olimpia and Paul-Annik Weiller.

Donna Olimpia is the daughter of Infanta Beatriz of Spain, who married the 5th Prince of Civitella-Cesi. This wedding in 1935 was a particularly glittering Royal event, attended by King Alfonso, the King and Queen of Italy, and "52 Princes of the Royal Blood."

The Infanta Beatriz was the sister of King Juan Carlos's father, the Count of Barcelona. They were two of the children of King Alfonso XIII and Queen Ena.

Thus Princess Sybilla has the distinction of being a descendent of Queen Victoria.

In other words, she was Royal in all but name. And now she is a Royal Highness. It is no surprise that she has assumed the role of a Princess of Luxembourg with such grace.

So before her marriage to Guillaume was she titled?

In the thread on Elisabeth of Bavaria's wedding I thought it was mentioned that Princess Elisabeth was Sybilla's sister which would have made Sybilla royal born?

pdas1201 03-03-2005 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genevieve
So before her marriage to Guillaume was she titled?

In the thread on Elisabeth of Bavaria's wedding I thought it was mentioned that Princess Elisabeth was Sybilla's sister which would have made Sybilla royal born?

Though she is royal born, she wasn't titled when she married Guillaume. Though her mother was titled, after marriage she didn't pass on the title to her children as in the case of all the royal families. Therefore, she was just Miss. Sybilla Weiller before her marriage.

I don't know of any connection between Elizabeth of Bavaria and Sybilla Weiller. She isn't Elizabeth's sister, Elizabeth has 3 sisters, one of whom is Princess Sophie of Leichtenstein, wife of Prince Alois of Leichtenstein.

Warren 03-03-2005 01:27 AM

The Lost sister
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdas1201
I don't know of any connection between Elizabeth of Bavaria and Sybilla Weiller. She isn't Elizabeth's sister, Elizabeth has 3 sisters, one of whom is Princess Sophie of Leichtenstein, wife of Prince Alois of Leichtenstein.

And one more makes 4 sisters.

Sophie - married to the Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein
Marie - married to to Duke Philip of Wurttemberg
Helene - unmarried
Elisabeth - married to Daniel Terberger
Anna - unmarried

There's sure to be a spare Archduke or two around somwhere...

pdas1201 03-03-2005 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren
And one more makes 4 sisters.

Sophie - married to the Hereditary Prince of Liechtenstein
Marie - married to to Duke Philip of Wurttemberg
Helene - unmarried
Elisabeth - married to Daniel Terberger
Anna - unmarried

There's sure to be a spare Archduke around somwhere...

Ah...thanks, Warren. I was forgetting Maria Anna, isn't she the prettiest of them all???

Josefine 03-03-2005 05:21 PM

the born princesses may not get the amount of criticle views but they have also not the same popularity as the new married in royal princesses

Warren 03-04-2005 03:09 AM

Fresh and New!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Josefine
the born princesses may not get the amount of critical views but they have also not the same popularity as the new married in royal princesses

The public and the media like new and fresh Princesses, who just appear. Fairytale stuff. eg Crown Princess Mary: "Aussie girl made good".

And what a surprise Mathilde was when the engagement was announced - who would have thought that Philippe would find such a stunning partner.

People are interested in how the new Princesses cope, and develop in their roles. Perhaps this adds to the "mystique" of Monarchy, rather than detracts from it, because people can identify with the new Royal in regards to their background.

But we have high expectations, and traditionalists are ever-ready to find fault, eg Letizia, Mette-Marit. Maxima had a very tough time initially, the alleged sins of the father visited on the daughter, but she also has been a revelation, and has captured the public's imagination

You would have to be a brave and confident woman to place yourself under the microscope by accepting the marriage proposal of a Prince.
.

semisquare 03-05-2005 01:41 PM

neither litezia or mary are very popular here in the states (sorry folks) but the person who marrys prince albert will be very popular here. i do think that royal born princess are cut more slack. case in point is princess madeline and her very bad driving record, if this happen to a non-royal born princesses it would make headlines, license taken -and all the other hogwash that goes with it.

Josefine 03-07-2005 07:29 AM

in sweden and the swedish press

we will be able to compare when carl phikip gets mariied
but i think princess madeleine gets more criticism then her sister
and the new princesses get nice stories in the swedish press more often the madeleine and victoria


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