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ezguy 07-30-2018 10:59 PM

Just sad since few days thinking of how they were killed
 
Just extremely sad since few days thinking of how they were killed.


My blood boils.


Why did they have to kill the innocent kids.


They could have killed the Tsar, but why the kids and his wife ?.


Russians are cruel and cold.


I wish I can go back in time and stop all this.


Very upset. do any one here feel the same way ?

Muhler 07-31-2018 04:20 AM

Only to some extent.

I don't think it's appropriate to characterize all Russians for something a few, and desperate extremists ordered 100 years ago.

The children were killed to make sure there would but no pretender in the future to to rally around. It's brutal logic. :sad:

And BTW congratulation on your first posts. :flowers:

ezguy 08-01-2018 02:00 PM

I understand about the killing children. But they were killed brutally, and that too in the 19th century. Even during french revolution. They killed the King in a proper way. Not half ass botched.

Also I learnt most of them where not Russians but Austro-Hungarian prisoners.

Thanks for the congratulations :)

Denville 08-01-2018 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezguy (Post 2138236)
Just extremely sad since few days thinking of how they were killed.


My blood boils.


Why did they have to kill the innocent kids.


They could have killed the Tsar, but why the kids and his wife ?.


Russians are cruel and cold.


I wish I can go back in time and stop all this.


Very upset. do any one here feel the same way ?

Not really......Its history, its not possible to go back in time and in WWI, millions died...

COUNTESS 08-01-2018 08:47 PM

Nicholas was also responsible for the deaths of many of his citizens, including children. If you were Jewish you feared for your life. Other ethnicities, too. That doesn't mean I think killing the children was okay. It was what they were used to.

Denville 08-02-2018 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COUNTESS (Post 2138720)
Nicholas was also responsible for the deaths of many of his citizens, including children. If you were Jewish you feared for your life. Other ethnicities, too. That doesn't mean I think killing the children was okay. It was what they were used to.

It was a war and revolution situation and terrible things happened. I don't feel any emotional attachement to the Romanovs, mainly because they were terrible rulers. Of course it was sad that the girls and Alexei were killed, and it goes without sayng it was very wrong.. but it had a brutal logic. THe Revolutionaries wanted to eliminate the heirs, and the Tsar and his wife... so that the IF was partly destroyed...and to send a message to the remaining family that they should give up all hopes of restoring the Monarchy...

Samvel Magrdini 11-02-2018 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezguy (Post 2138236)
Just extremely sad since few days thinking of how they were killed.


My blood boils.


Why did they have to kill the innocent kids.


They could have killed the Tsar, but why the kids and his wife ?.


Russians are cruel and cold.


I wish I can go back in time and stop all this.


Very upset. do any one here feel the same way ?

Everyone does. And also, don't blame the Russians. I am not an anti-semitist or conspiracy theories lover, but the fact of almost all the killers being mostly Jews is true. The executors were not only jewish, but also Kazakh, Russian and Georgian. In one word - they were Bolsheviks. Communists never stopped killing people, and will never stop.

Also, there's one big detail that everyone misses.
First, they didn't just walk and execute them, they lied that they should stand up for a picture, and that made the kids very excited. But as they revealed their plan, Nicholas came to shock and shouted "Господи! Прости их, они не ведают, что творят!", "Oh god, forgive these people, they don't know what they are doing".

unfortunately, you can't travel back in time :(

COUNTESS 11-02-2018 09:59 PM

And you forget all the pogroms those "Jews" families suffered and were killed in, not only permitted by the Tsar, but often instigated. No one worried about their children. By the way, those actions disturbed Alexandra who was not anti-Semitic as the Russsians were.

Denville 11-03-2018 05:49 AM

Everyone doesn't have that emoitional reaction.. It is sad, it was terrible that the girls were killed as well but it was during a terrible war and a revolution and millions were being killed.. if Nicholas II had not been such a terrible ruler, he might have saved himself and his dynasty.. Its true that In pogroms, people were killed, and their children and people weren't worried about that.. By the way, I thought that Nicholass final words were something like "what??" because he was startled by being told that they were about to be shot.. nothing about forgiving people...

Lee-Z 11-03-2018 06:06 AM

While the killing of millions of innocents throughout the centuries past is deeply sad and unjust in every single occassion (and imo the cruelest side of humanity), i think if you want to put blame, blame the people who directly ordered or performed the specific killings and not project it on entire populations from whatever etniticity, nationality, religion, race, heritage or whatever grouping is used.

(PS Wasn't the quote "Forgive them for they don't know what they are doing" a biblical one, attributed to Jesus?)

JR76 11-03-2018 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-Z (Post 2167414)

(PS Wasn't the quote "Forgive them for they don't know what they are doing" a biblical one, attributed to Jesus?)

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Luke 23:34

Denville 11-03-2018 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-Z (Post 2167414)
While the killing of millions of innocents throughout the centuries past is deeply sad and unjust in every single occassion (and imo the cruelest side of humanity), i think if you want to put blame, blame the people who directly ordered or performed the specific killings and not project it on entire populations from whatever etniticity, nationality, religion, race, heritage or whatever grouping is used.

(PS Wasn't the quote "Forgive them for they don't know what they are doing" a biblical one, attributed to Jesus?)

Yes and I dotn believe that Nicholas said that. unless someone can provide a quote? I understood that they read out the notice that they were going to be shot and Nicholas started to exclaim "What are you saying" but only got out the word "what".. before the shooting started. I agree that it is not right to blame iether Jews or Russians or Non Russians.. It was ordered by the Govt, wrongly but in the context of the time, it was something that was lilkey to happen. THe IF were not popular, they were increasingly hated for their refusal to allow moderate reforms..and for the failures in the War..If a lot of Jews were communists, it is quite understandable since they were a group who suffered a lot from Romanov misrule...

JR76 11-03-2018 07:06 AM

I feel that we should be careful in pointing fingers and putting blame on specific nationalities. As one poster wrote above most importantly the executioners were communists. It's been proven that many of them were very reluctant to kill the girls and that everyone wanted to be the one to kill the Tsar which, together with the fact that the girls had a literal armour of jewels sewn in their clothes, lead to them and their brother surviving the initial rain of bullets and causing them to suffer both mentally and physically before they finally met their deaths.
I can understand the political motivation behind the need to have them killed, but poor kids. Murdered for the crimes of their parents.

Iluvbertie 11-03-2018 07:20 AM

The youngest of these 'kids' was 13. The eldest was certainly not a child but was a 23 year old woman.

They were all of an age where they could certainly be the focus of attempts to overthrow the government.

There should have been a public trial (even if the outcome was a foregone conclusion) but that certainly wasn't going to happen with an approaching army aiming at rescuing them ... among other things.

Even if they had been rescued there then would have been the question of what to do with them. They weren't wanted anywhere. Britain had refused to take them and that would have extended to the British empire. No one elsewhere in Europe would have wanted them either in all likelihood - sure The Netherlands took in the Kaiser but he wasn't seen as anywhere near the tyrant Nicholas II was.

With virtually no one in the world saying 'we will have them' they were faced with no real choices - basically kill them then or hold them in prison forever for the safety of the new regime.

Hard facts to face but we aren't really talking about 'kids' but young adults in most cases and a boy who very much knew who he was and what he was and was very conscious of being the second person in the land even at 13.

victor1319 11-03-2018 11:47 AM

The original sin of the 20th century...
 
The murder of the Romanovs was the original sin - many, millions others followed. The Red Terror started with the end of the Romanovs, but by far did not end.

And it should not be forgotten, which role the german army leadership played: They brought Lenin into Russia!

The end of the german "Czardome", the end of the rule of the Kaiser, was also not hindered, yes even promoted by the german generals. And this end gave room for the rise of Hitler.

These generals showed a terrible lack of political foresight and built the ground for the biggest slaughter, mankind has ever experienced.

Denville 11-03-2018 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victor1319 (Post 2167455)
These generals showed a terrible lack of political foresight and built the ground for the biggest slaughter, mankind has ever experienced.

Nicholas showed a lakc of foresight, in not allowing reform and trying to preserve autocratic rule, n the 20th century, allowing pogroms etc.

Samvel Magrdini 11-03-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2167466)
Nicholas showed a lakc of foresight, in not allowing reform and trying to preserve autocratic rule, n the 20th century, allowing pogroms etc.

That was because he wasn't ready to get the throne, his father died too early, with Nicholas having no knowledge in being monarch.

wartenberg7 11-03-2018 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezguy (Post 2138236)
Just extremely sad since few days thinking of how they were killed.


My blood boils.


Why did they have to kill the innocent kids.


They could have killed the Tsar, but why the kids and his wife ?.


Russians are cruel and cold.


I wish I can go back in time and stop all this.


Very upset. do any one here feel the same way ?


They could have killed the Tsar?! Well, as I understand a murder is a murder, no matter if someone kills a man or a woman! And speaking about the Tsar and the Tsarina, Alexandra, if we talk about "guilt" or who is to blame, is equally, some might say even more so, to blame about how things went in Russia! It is common knowledge by her diary entries and letters to her husband, that she influenced him to take some very bad decisions concerning the war and his autocratic rule.

For her, democratizing Russia was an offence and a sin against God. Beyond that I won´t start what fatal and destroying effect her bondage to Rasputin had and by that again on the Tsar! All this had a highly damaging effect on the image of the monarchy in a country, where revolution was in the air since many decades.
The Tsar himself is to "blame" for being too weak, too easily to be influenced and to know too less about the poorest of the poor of his country. But of course, nobody, also not the Tsar, should have to be killed for that!

Denville 11-03-2018 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samvel Magrdini (Post 2167486)
That was because he wasn't ready to get the throne, his father died too early, with Nicholas having no knowledge in being monarch.

he was a grown man, had been Tsar for many years, and he hadn't learned in all that time?

Gawin 11-04-2018 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 2167536)
he was a grown man, had been Tsar for many years, and he hadn't learned in all that time?

I completely agree. He didn't know it was wrong to tolerate pogroms against the Jews, oppose democratic reforms, and order troops to fire on starving workers as they marched on the palace to deliver a petition to him? And considering his father's poor track record on human rights, what would he have learned had Alexander III lived longer? In fact, Nicholas learned his father's lesson all too well: preserve autocracy at any cost. Unfortunately he didn't have the wisdom to understand the consequences.

It's no wonder Nicholas was regarded as a despot. That's what led George V to resist any efforts to grant the Romanovs asylum in Britain. Did Nicholas and his family deserve to die? No, of course not, but neither did the people whose deaths Nicholas was responsible for, either directly or indirectly.


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