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Solange 12-05-2004 04:23 PM

Grand Ducal Family Protocol
 
When a princess meets a queen she bows, but what happens when a princess and a grand duchess meet or a queen and a grand duchess?

suturegeisha 12-05-2004 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange
When a princess meets a queen she bows, but what happens when a princess and a grand duchess meet or a queen and a grand duchess?

I do believe.....
since Luxembourg is a grand duchy, and the only one in the world, that means that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess are heads of state, and thus entitled to the same bows and curtseys received by kings, queens, emperors, and empresses. Heads of state do not bow or curtsy to each other, so if for instance, Grand Duchess Maria-Teresa were to meet Empress Michiko of Japan or Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain, she would not curtsy, nor would Grand Duke Henri bow.
Princesses and princes bow and curtsy to heads of state because they are of a lesser rank.
Lollies!
-Kara-

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-05-2004 06:22 PM

But anyone below them must bow or curtsey.

KatieLouise 12-06-2004 01:56 AM

I think I remember someone mentioning before that they saw the Infantas Elena and Cristina curtsey to GD Henri and GD Maria Teresa. It seems to me that the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess would be treated with the same deference as any other monarch.

hillary_nugent 12-06-2004 07:06 AM

How did a 'Grand Duchy' come about?

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-06-2004 06:21 PM

Beats me. There used to be alot of small monarchies, but they have all disapeared and formed larger dresses.

hillary_nugent 12-06-2004 09:56 PM

i think there is still alot of small monarchies that no one knows of, before i became interested in Royals i thought the only 'big' royals was the British Royal family but i have since learnt that there seems to be alot of people out there that claim to be a prince of princess...

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-06-2004 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillary_nugent
i think there is still alot of small monarchies that no one knows of, before i became interested in Royals i thought the only 'big' royals was the British Royal family but i have since learnt that there seems to be alot of people out there that claim to be a prince of princess...

Yes, but many of them don't have a claim to a throne.

KatieLouise 12-07-2004 10:04 PM

Luxembourg was elevated to the status of Grand Duchy when it became a possession of the newly independent Kingdom of the Netherlands under the rule of King Willem I. (This happened in 1815 after the defeat of Napoleon and the withdrawal of French rule - type "Congress of Vienna" and "History of Luxembourg/Netherlands" into your nearest search engine for more info!)
A Grand Duke is technically lower in rank than a King - although he is higher in rank than a plain old sovereign Duke. But I would think that these days, the Grand Duke is afforded the same respect in his country as other monarch.
Just a thought, why are the Grand Ducal family styled 'Royal Highness' unlike members of other (former) Grand Ducal families who are styled 'Grand Ducal Highness'? It has something to do with Felix of Bourbon-Parma (Henri's Grandfather), right?

suturegeisha 12-08-2004 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatieLouise
Just a thought, why are the Grand Ducal family styled 'Royal Highness' unlike members of other (former) Grand Ducal families who are styled 'Grand Ducal Highness'? It has something to do with Felix of Bourbon-Parma (Henri's Grandfather), right?

Yes. When Grand Duchess Charlotte was young, her title was HGDH [Her Grand Ducal Highness] Princess Charlotte. Since Charlotte married Felix of Bourbon de Parma, and it is tradition that a wife takes her husband's title, I'm assuming that she was given the style of HRH for that reason.
The family is also Prince/Princess of Bourbon de Parma.
Lollies!
-Kara-

bad_barbarella 12-08-2004 05:04 PM

so anyway if we ever meet the royals we curtsy right?

semisquare 12-08-2004 05:27 PM

so lets say u dont cursy or speak before spoken to or even put your hand out 1st to shake a royal hand, would they snub you or would they just play along?

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-08-2004 06:12 PM

And the whole not curtseying thing, if the royals were from Luxembourg, considering how normal they are, they would probably be chill about it. But if it were someone like Queen Elizabeth of England, I believe they would get rather annoyed.

suturegeisha 12-09-2004 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semisquare
so lets say u dont cursy or speak before spoken to or even put your hand out 1st to shake a royal hand, would they snub you or would they just play along?

Since you're from the US, I'm sure they would forgive you. ;]
In any case, I don't think that any member of the GD family would be offended. They seem pretty lax about these kinds of things- modern and forthright monarchs.
Lollies!
-Kara-

Iain 12-09-2004 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semisquare
so lets say u dont cursy or speak before spoken to or even put your hand out 1st to shake a royal hand, would they snub you or would they just play along?

That only applies in the (so called) United Kingdom where the Windsors like to believe that they are superior to other royals. Other royal families are far more down to earth and bowing and curtying has almost disappeared.

hillary_nugent 12-09-2004 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semisquare
so lets say u dont cursy or speak before spoken to or even put your hand out 1st to shake a royal hand, would they snub you or would they just play along?

you mean you can't put your out first for a hand shake? bugger...i have this tendency to stick my hand out straight away when meeting a person and giving their hand a hard, thorough shake...well we'be got to curtsy to queens and kings how about princes and princesses do we curtsy to them? is there a different wow of curstying depending on their royal status? do we have to curtsy to all royals?

Solange 12-11-2004 12:29 PM

How come the presidents of the USA don't bow nor their wives curtsey to a royal??

suturegeisha 12-11-2004 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solange
How come the presidents of the USA don't bow nor their wives curtsey to a royal??

Because they're heads of state. Heads of state do not bow or curtsey to anyone because they're of similar rank to a king or a queen.
Lollies!
-Kara-

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-11-2004 11:53 PM

George W. Bush or Tony Blair...King? Throw up on myself!

hillary_nugent 12-12-2004 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suturegeisha
Because they're heads of state. Heads of state do not bow or curtsey to anyone because they're of similar rank to a king or a queen.
Lollies!
-Kara-

You are joking right??? Geroge Bush similar to a king? yeah right...:eek:

grecka 12-12-2004 09:02 AM

He's far more powerful than a crusty old monarch, that's for sure.

suturegeisha 12-12-2004 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillary_nugent
You are joking right??? Geroge Bush similar to a king? yeah right...:eek:

I just meant rank-wise....Mr. Bush actually is nothing like a king in a constitutional monarchy, because he is actively involved in politics and can actually make decisions regarding laws and bills and whatnot. He can declare war and is the true head of the military. He has lots and lots of power.
Kings, on the other hand, at least nowadays, can't do that. it's left up to their Cabinet and Prime Ministers.
Lollies!
-Kara-

gaggleofcrazypeople 12-12-2004 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grecka
He's far more powerful than a crusty old monarch, that's for sure.

The Grand Duchy? Crusty and old?

hillary_nugent 12-12-2004 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suturegeisha
I just meant rank-wise....Mr. Bush actually is nothing like a king in a constitutional monarchy, because he is actively involved in politics and can actually make decisions regarding laws and bills and whatnot. He can declare war and is the true head of the military. He has lots and lots of power.
Kings, on the other hand, at least nowadays, can't do that. it's left up to their Cabinet and Prime Ministers.
Lollies!
-Kara-

yeah i guess Bush does have ALOT more power than Royals but i can never imagine him being a King hahaha ^__^

Lady Claire 10-18-2008 03:00 AM

Actually the President of the United States does not have as much power as many believe. He can not declare war, only Congress can do that. Congress has the majority of the power in the United States.

Menarue 10-18-2008 04:19 AM

George Bush is descended from royalty by both his mother and his father. In fact his family can be traced directly back to Edward II of England as could George Washington´s - and an amazing number of US Presidents.

gabys 10-19-2008 05:18 PM

so would I bow or curtsey upon meeting say a royal from lux,belgium,liect,and or spain on a casual occasion?

Count 10-20-2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabys (Post 839959)
so would I bow or curtsey upon meeting say a royal from lux,belgium,liect,and or spain on a casual occasion?

I wouldn't...on casual occasions you do not need to do it.

If you meet them during holidays or in a non formal occasion or a party given by friends do not bow...

Shaiya 10-20-2008 08:45 PM

I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone. Not really trying to be rude but I feel like that's unnecessary and I don't believe that anyone is better than anyone else, espcially not the British royal family.

ashelen 10-20-2008 11:05 PM

i wonder how wil they react if you do not bow to them? or for that fact to any other royal? some timeS I think about Maxima, we grow up in the same neiborhood, i went to the same school, i reaally it would be funny to me! to have to bow to her1

Odette 10-21-2008 12:50 AM

It is going to get a bit strange when one of the current commoner crown princesses ascend to the throne and those who still are still waiting in line will have to curtsey to them. Also CP of royal blood would have to bow to the new Queen who a few years back was either a waitress or a real estate agent etc.etc.

If one knows that King Carl Gustav has precedence -protocol wise- over King Juan Carlos because he is reigning longer than JC and Marie and Mary curtsey to the Queen, one understands that protocol is still alive and well among the royals and those who live in these circles.

Menarue 10-21-2008 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaiya (Post 840504)
I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone. Not really trying to be rude but I feel like that's unnecessary and I don't believe that anyone is better than anyone else, espcially not the British royal family.

This is entirely up to you. If you are in a position to be close enough to the royals and not just standing in a crowd, then not curtseying would be considered very bad manners. Also if you are for some reason invited to an event where they are present and you are presented to them and don´t curtsey with the excuse you are as good as them, that would be considered gross and extremely bad manners (I am presuming you are a Canadian citizen) nothing will happen to you, they won´t chop off your head, you will be noted, and you can be sure that you will never be invited again.

Count 10-21-2008 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaiya (Post 840504)
I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone. Not really trying to be rude but I feel like that's unnecessary and I don't believe that anyone is better than anyone else, espcially not the British royal family.

Basically I agree with you but if you want to respect the court etiquette you should do it, you do not honour the person but their office.

The only occasion I feel to bow is when I am in front of the Pope, in all other occasions I do it only to respect the etiquette.

Count 10-21-2008 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashelen (Post 840550)
i wonder how wil they react if you do not bow to them? or for that fact to any other royal? some timeS I think about Maxima, we grow up in the same neiborhood, i went to the same school, i reaally it would be funny to me! to have to bow to her1

A young member of a Royal family would not be surprised, but an old one...yes, especially if we talk about the Queen of England. The other are more free, in any case, in official occasions (i.e. reception at the Palace wearing white tie and tiaras) it is nice to see it.
If you a day will attend one of them, let's say, in Spain, you will see how many people are bowing...

Jacknch 10-21-2008 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaiya (Post 840504)
I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone. Not really trying to be rude but I feel like that's unnecessary and I don't believe that anyone is better than anyone else, espcially not the British royal family.

If you wouldn't bow or curtsey to ANYONE then why add "especially not the British royal family"? Do you mean that you would bow or curtsey to some people but exclusively not British royalty? And what's wrong with the British royal family? Are you prejudice? Explain please.

Count 10-21-2008 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odette (Post 840573)
It is going to get a bit strange when one of the current commoner crown princesses ascend to the throne and those who still are still waiting in line will have to curtsey to them. Also CP of royal blood would have to bow to the new Queen who a few years back was either a waitress or a real estate agent etc.etc.

If one knows that King Carl Gustav has precedence -protocol wise- over King Juan Carlos because he is reigning longer than JC and Marie and Mary curtsey to the Queen, one understands that protocol is still alive and well among the royals and those who live in these circles.

Indeed Odette, if you "live" in that circle you must do it, even if when you talk to the King or Queen you call them uncle and auntie...
Of course we are always talking about official ceremonies.

Shaiya 10-23-2008 02:10 AM

Quote:

This is entirely up to you. If you are in a position to be close enough to the royals and not just standing in a crowd, then not curtseying would be considered very bad manners. Also if you are for some reason invited to an event where they are present and you are presented to them and don´t curtsey with the excuse you are as good as them, that would be considered gross and extremely bad manners (I am presuming you are a Canadian citizen) nothing will happen to you, they won´t chop off your head, you will be noted, and you can be sure that you will never be invited again.
Haha, yes I hope I won't get guillotined for not observing court etiquette! And yes, I am a Canadian citizen btw. It's not so much that I want to be rude and difficult but it would just be for religious and personal reasons, you know? I'm not expecting to get invitations to any royal events anytime soon though, so it's not a big worry to me. ;)

Quote:

If you wouldn't bow or curtsey to ANYONE then why add "especially not the British royal family"? Do you mean that you would bow or curtsey to some people but exclusively not British royalty? And what's wrong with the British royal family? Are you prejudice? Explain please.
Just some personal issues I have with (some of) them, nothing to concern anyone, just a mindless 15-year-old girl's ramblings.

Quote:

Basically I agree with you but if you want to respect the court etiquette you should do it, you do not honour the person but their office.

The only occasion I feel to bow is when I am in front of the Pope, in all other occasions I do it only to respect the etiquette.
For me it's a religious reason too, though I'm not Catholic. I just feel like those kinds of protocols are also a little bit outdated, I'd be very polite and say "your majesty" and everything to them and I'd totally respect their position but I just don't feel bowing or curtseying is a necessity to that.

NGalitzine 09-17-2011 01:56 PM

The curstey is not to the individual it is a sign of respect to the position that individual holds.

maria-olivia 09-17-2011 04:17 PM

On the official picture of Monaco The Grand Duke and The Grand Duchess were between Prince Albert and Princesses Charlène, Caroline and Sephanie.
The other guests were on the huge stairsteps why? because they were rulers of a small country as Monaco??

Komtesse Rosaire 06-05-2012 02:46 PM

Just wondering since we are talking about protocol...
Are you allowed to wear a tiara to a tiara event, even though you are neither of royal heritage nor head of state.

NGalitzine 06-05-2012 03:12 PM

Yes, if you have one or can borrow one you can wear it.

An Ard Ri 06-05-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NGalitzine (Post 1426494)
Yes, if you have one or can borrow one you can wear it.

Or if you had Elizabeth Taylor's jewels ;)


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