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-   -   What names do they use for their official documents? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/what-names-do-they-use-for-their-official-documents-41245.html)

Anfisa 09-06-2016 02:00 PM

What names do they use for their official documents?
 
This crossed my mind the other day. The princes obviously have passports/drivers licenses/student IDs and stuff like that. I wonder what names they use on it. Like would their surname be "Wales"? Even after William was made the Duke of Cambridge? Or would their surname be "Windsor"? Would the title of "HRH Prince..." be included in their names? Just a thought.

Lumutqueen 09-06-2016 02:46 PM

William used William Wales in School I believe, same for Henry.

So it's either that for passports an such or Prince William with the surname Wales perhaps.

Osipi 09-06-2016 02:59 PM

I found it interesting to learn that when filing a lawsuit in France (because of the invasion of privacy taking long lens pictures of Kate), William and Kate used William Mountbatten-Windsor and Kate used Catherine Middleton. Females use their maiden names I guess and William's titles and "of" designations (Wales or Cambridge) aren't recognized in France.

LadyFinn 09-06-2016 04:04 PM

Prince Carl Philip's driving licence (with HRH prince Carl Philip), he lost his wallet some years ago, a couple found it and gave the story to the press.
Hittade prinsens plånbok

Skippy 09-06-2016 04:19 PM

:previous: Well, it guess it depends on what one's intentions are. Giving your story to the press or giving the wallet to the police without the blabbing.
A prince (or anyone else well-known) losing his wallet is one thing, but to zoom in on it by bringing it to the press is another. I think it's tasteless, but I guess they got their 15 minutes of fame ("Look what we found!").

Ish 09-06-2016 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anfisa (Post 1921849)
This crossed my mind the other day. The princes obviously have passports/drivers licenses/student IDs and stuff like that. I wonder what names they use on it. Like would their surname be "Wales"? Even after William was made the Duke of Cambridge? Or would their surname be "Windsor"? Would the title of "HRH Prince..." be included in their names? Just a thought.


I think it really depends on the country, the individual, and the instance.

For example, while in school William went by William Wales. He also used this name in the military (I don't know if he used Wales or Cambridge in the EAAA, but I would bet it's one of the two).

When he and Kate filed the lawsuit in France, William used William Mountbatten-Windsor.

When he filed the registration for George's birth, he used His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, Duke of Cambridge.

I can't remember how he signed his marriage certificate.

Iluvbertie 09-06-2016 08:35 PM

I don't think we actually saw his marriage certificate.

I agree it depends on the different countries about how they would style themselves on things like passports but I do seem to remember that Diana's passport had her as HRH The Princess of Wales at one point in the 1980s so I suspect that they use their official titles for passports.

The Queen doesn't have a passport and Philip's is numbered 1. He took over that number from the Queen Mum when George VI died and he became the Consort of the Monarch.

Ish 09-07-2016 12:31 AM

You can find photos of Diana's 1980s passport and it does have her title listed.

I found a photo of William's birth certificate and it lists his full title (no territorial designation), Charles' full HRH Prince Charles etc, PoW, and Diana's HRH The PssoW (no given name).

https://www.deedpolloffice.com/image....128.crush.jpg

Osipi 09-07-2016 05:23 AM

I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation. :biggrin:

Denville 09-07-2016 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1921985)
I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation. :biggrin:

well he has to give her SOME occupation title! I did not think that usualy royals like William use the surname of Mountbatten Windsor. If he abdicated, it would problaby be his surname.. Edwards children use it because they are not usng the titles prince and Princess

Osipi 09-07-2016 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denville (Post 1921987)
well he has to give her SOME occupation title! I did not think that usualy royals like William use the surname of Mountbatten Windsor. If he abdicated, it would problaby be his surname.. Edwards children use it because they are not usng the titles prince and Princess

It was set up by LP in 1960.

At the Court at Buckingham Palace, The 8th day of February 1960.
Present, the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.

Her Majesty was this day pleased to make the following declaration:

"My Lords

Whereas on the 9th day of April 1952, I did declare in Council My Will and Pleasure that I and My children shall be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor, and that My descendants, other than female descendants who marry and their descendants, shall bear the name of Windsor:
And whereas I have given further consideration to the position of those of My descendants who will enjoy neither the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness, nor the titluar dignity of Prince and for whom therefore a surname will be necessary:

And whereas I have concluded that the Declaration made by Me on the 9th day of April 1952, should be varied in its application to such persons:
Now therefore I declare My Will and Pleasure that, while I and My Children shall continue to be styled and known as the House and Family of Windsor,

My descendants other than descendants enjoying the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness and the titular dignity of Prince or Princess and female descendants who marry and their descendants shall bear the name of Mountbatten-Windsor."

(London Gazette, issue 41948, Feb. 8, 1960, p. 1/1003. See also the Times Feb 9, 1960 p. 10E.)

For the most part, William does not require a surname. In France he did for the reason being that the French legal system does not acknowledge British titles and styles. With that being the case, the LP of 1960 came into play and William used Mountbatten-Windsor.

Skippyboo 09-07-2016 08:02 AM

Even with his abdication, Edward VIII was not just Mr Edward Windsor. He was HRH The Prince Edward right after the abdication. The LPs for the Dukedom were officially done a couple of months later.


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Spheno 09-07-2016 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1921985)
I remember too that when George and Charlotte were born, when William registered the births, he put "Princess of the UK" as Kate's occupation. :biggrin:

As you can see in William's birth certificate Prince Charles also put "Prince of the UK" as his occupation. It's a tradition. Evrery time British royals fill such documents they put "Prince/Princess of the UK" their occupation.

http://i39.tinypic.com/bvkte.jpg
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id109326899

Skippyboo 09-07-2016 10:52 AM

William's birth registration didn't even have a space for occupation for the mother so there have been some progress in the years since.


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AdmirerUS 09-07-2016 11:23 AM

I cannot remember where, but this has been discussed at length elsewhere in TRF. The DM did a piece on this around the time of Charlotte's birth IIRC and we wrote more than a bit on the name topic.

You can actually see a number of these kinds of registry documents in the DM piece or try prince william marriage certificate search (I used google) to see a collection of official docs from the family. Try it, it's kinda fun!

Lisele 08-26-2017 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1921870)
I found it interesting to learn that when filing a lawsuit in France (because of the invasion of privacy taking long lens pictures of Kate), William and Kate used William Mountbatten-Windsor and Kate used Catherine Middleton. Females use their maiden names I guess and William's titles and "of" designations (Wales or Cambridge) aren't recognized in France.

Somebody from France correct me if I'm wrong - I always thought French women retained their maiden name when they married. Could this be why the Duchess of Cambridge had to use Catherine Middleton instead of Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor?

Countessmeout 08-27-2017 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisele (Post 2012534)
Somebody from France correct me if I'm wrong - I always thought French women retained their maiden name when they married. Could this be why the Duchess of Cambridge had to use Catherine Middleton instead of Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor?

Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
http://time.com/3940094/maiden-married-names-countries/

QueenPenny 08-27-2017 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2012583)
Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
Maiden Names: Here Are Places Women Can't Take Their Husband's Name | Time.com

I am from Louisiana which follows Napoleonic law in many state matters. Several years ago, I gave my PoA to my mother so she could act on my behalf regarding an inheritance since I had moved out of state and was not available to travel the several times that the matter would entail. Anyway, the PoA had my maiden name on them, and my FIL, who is an attorney in La, confirmed that my birth name is considered my legal name in the state of LA. I had no idea! I was just grateful that my driver's license had both my maiden & married names on it so I didn't have to get my birth certificate & marriage license out of the safe deposit box in order to get the document notarized.

Duc_et_Pair 08-27-2017 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countessmeout (Post 2012583)
Okay taking this from time magazine which seems a reasonable source, France indeed is a country where a woman doesn't take her husband's last name. Been a law since the 1700s that a person can't change name from their birth certificate. Well not legally, they can use it in private as form of address, but not legally.
Maiden Names: Here Are Places Women Can't Take Their Husband's Name | Time.com

In daily life the spouse of Monsieur Dubois is Madame Dubois. But indeed, when a lady whishes to be known with her maiden name, this will be used.

Example: I seldom see Mme Anne-Aymone Sauvage de Brantes, Mme Bernadette Chodron de Courcel or Mme Brigitte Trogneux used: they are all better known as Mme Giscard d'Estaing, Mme Chirac and Mme Macron.

Mme Ségolène Royal indeed was the mother of President Hollande's four children but the couple never married (they considered the idea of marriage "bourgeois"). Mme Carla Bruni kept her surname (with the addition of Sarkozy). Undoubtedly because she was already a well-known celebrity person on her own before she married M Nicolas Sarkozy.

Countessmeout 08-27-2017 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 2012613)
In daily life the spouse of Monsieur Dubois is Madame Dubois. But indeed, when a lady whishes to be known with her maiden name, this will be used.

Example: I seldom see Mme Anne-Aymone Sauvage de Brantes, Mme Bernadette Chodron de Courcel or Mme Brigitte Trogneux used: they are all better known as Mme Giscard d'Estaing, Mme Chirac and Mme Macron.

Mme Ségolène Royal indeed was the mother of President Hollande's four children but the couple never married (they considered the idea of marriage "bourgeois"). Mme Carla Bruni kept her surname (with the addition of Sarkozy). Undoubtedly because she was already a well-known celebrity person on her own before she married M Nicolas Sarkozy.

It's not about wishes. It's about law.

Legally Carla Bruni is Carla Bruni. Legally she cannot add Sarkozy to her name. It's illegal in France to alter your name.

By Custom women can Choose to be addressed by their husbands name. Carla chooses to be addressed as both. But legally she is not. Legally on all documents she is dimply Bruni. As is any woman in France.

Napoleonic law still in place.


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