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-   -   Title for Camilla - Part 2 (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f44/title-for-camilla-part-2-a-3994.html)

wymanda 11-07-2004 07:02 AM

Title for Camilla - Part 2
 
I have been having a think about this and a press release along these lines might make things clear if Charles & Camilla marry.

"In accordance with Letters Patent signed on ??/??/???? HM the Queen in accordance with the wishes of the Prince of Wales & Ms Parker-Bowles agrees to the bride being known, after the solemnization of the marriage, as HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. The bride will remain entitled to share in all the styles & titles of His Royal Highness but, in recognition of the life & work of Diana, Princess of Wales will not use or be known by the title of Princess of Wales."

What do other members think.

wymanda 11-13-2004 05:49 AM

No comment?????

Duke of Lippe-Saalfeld 11-13-2004 08:07 AM

I think it is a good thing that she won't be called Princess of Wales. This was the title of late Princess Diana, and she was and still is known as Princess of Wales. To pay respect to the late princess, Camilla have to find another title, i think.

Like in Belgium: Former King Leopold III married in secret with 'commoner' Lilian Baels, and the government refuse to give her the title of Queen, so they give her the title of Princess of Réthy. I think Camilla could have a title something like Duchess of Windsor or Princess of Windsor, because she maybe not be Queen, but she is the wife of the King, so she must have an important title i think...

wymanda 11-13-2004 08:45 AM

Thanks for that Duke of L-S.
The only problem with your suggestion is that British law doesn't allow for morganatic marriage which is what you are suggesting. Camilla would be entitled to ALL of Charles ranks & titles. It would be a choice to use one of his other titles rather than Princess of Wales and when Charles became King she WILL be Queen.

Elspeth 11-13-2004 02:28 PM

Well, whatever British law says, Edward VIII ended up with a morganatic marriage when the King refused to extend his Royal Highness status to his wife. If it could be done once, I expect it could be done again.

Britters 11-13-2004 05:23 PM

I don't think its fair for anyone to use the title Princess of Wales after Diana, just because it isn't fair to that person. SOOO many people have created this huge persona, and practically sanctified Diana, they've built her up to be so much, that it just wouldn't be fair...I've stated the same thing about if/when William marry's and he is using those titles, whoever is next in that title needs to be a long way away from the Diana rememberers...

However, on the other side of things, IF Charles and Camilla were to get married, it doesn't seem to fair to say, Camilla can't use the title the Princess of Wales, just because Diana used it...

Elspeth 11-13-2004 07:01 PM

By the time William (a) gets married and (b) becomes Prince of Wales (in whichever order), there's going to be an awful lot of young people who barely remember Diana. It's already seven years since she died; if William is both married and PoW in five or six years' time, there'll be very few people under 18 for whom Diana was realistically anything but history. When the next Prince of Wales marries, his wife will be Princess of Wales. Queen Mary became Princess of Wales after Queen Alexandra had been a very popular Princess of Wales for over 40 years, and the country and the monarchy survived fine.

bluetortuga 11-13-2004 11:23 PM

Charles could marry Camilla right now if he really wanted to. I don't think he wants to be married. He likes the convenience of this relationship. He gets to milk the cow for free; and she seems to like that too. To me she's nothing more than a glorified "good time girl". If she deserves any title, it should be either that or "The Royal Mistress".

Vicomtesse 11-13-2004 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetortuga
Charles could marry Camilla right now if he really wanted to. I don't think he wants to be married. He likes the convenience of this relationship. He gets to milk the cow for free; and she seems to like that too. To me she's nothing more than a glorified "good time girl". If she deserves any title, it should be either that or "The Royal Mistress".

I think relationships change as you mature. When you are younger it is important to be married and to have a ring on your finger and a piece of paper that says you are Mr and Mrs. But as you get older and espescially if you have been previously married or are widowed having that legal document or a ring on your finger doesn't matter as much. As you get older it is more about the companionship and friendship than trying to prove anything to the world. Lots of public figures enjoy very happy and successful relationships like the one Charles and Camilla are enjoying without feeling like they should be married. Jackie Kennedy had a very long relationship with her companion Maurice Templesman. Just because they are not married does not mean that they are any less committed than married couples. Maybe Charles and Camilla don't want to be married. Maybe Camilla isn't interested in being the next Princess of Wales or Duchess of Cornwall or whatever. Maybe she and Charles are very happy with things as they are.

Reina 11-14-2004 12:12 AM

Let us not forget taht Diana is the mother of the heirs to the throne, so it just would not be right to give Camilla the title Princess of Wales. Gosh Charles has made such a mess of things...compromisation of values all around...

wymanda 11-14-2004 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reina
Let us not forget taht Diana is the mother of the heirs to the throne, so it just would not be right to give Camilla the title Princess of Wales. Gosh Charles has made such a mess of things...compromisation of values all around...

While what has been done is no guide to morality I would point out the example of a previous Duke of Devonshire who lived, during the early 19th Century, in a menage a trois with his wife & mistress! His wife was an ancestor of Diana's, Lady Georgiana Spencer & his mistress Lady Elizabeth Foster. When his wife (the mother of his heir) died he married his mistress who became, as his wife had been, Duchess of Devonshire. At the passing of the Duke his heir treated his stepmother as his father had asked, despite her part in his mothers life.

There is no reason for Camilla to be deprived of the title Princess of Wales apart from public opinion. I think that the Queen, who is mindful of her subjects opinion, would take the public's wishes into account. Bear in mind that this would be the views of her subjects and not those of middle America (no offence intended).

Ellie2 11-14-2004 05:19 AM

how about home wrecker

wymanda 11-14-2004 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie2
how about home wrecker

Your opinion but not particularly productive!

Ennyllorac 11-14-2004 08:27 AM

Let's please keep our comments productive.

susan alicia 11-14-2004 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetortuga
Charles could marry Camilla right now if he really wanted to. I don't think he wants to be married. He likes the convenience of this relationship. He gets to milk the cow for free; and she seems to like that too. To me she's nothing more than a glorified "good time girl". If she deserves any title, it should be either that or "The Royal Mistress".

I am not easily chocked but think the sentence milk the cow for free terrible. It is not only is unjust for the two of them but it demeans all women.

Elspeth 11-14-2004 02:39 PM

Quote:

Let us not forget taht Diana is the mother of the heirs to the throne, so it just would not be right to give Camilla the title Princess of Wales.
I don't think that's any barrier to a second wife taking her husband's title. In the case of Diana and Camilla it's mostly emotion demanding that Camilla be given a different title, not legal necessity.

I assume that part of the reason why they aren't marrying is to avoid this whole business of whether she becomes Princess of Wales. That suggests that they might marry once he becomes King. It seems to me that if they're going to marry, we might expect to see it happen after he becomes King and before he's crowned. For him to wait till after his coronation and then marry Camilla would be dishonest, since the coronation ceremony is a religious one - it was something that even Edward VIII refused to do.

sara1981 11-14-2004 03:45 PM

many people wont wanted given Camilla as Princess of Wales nor become Queen of England because many people in England would remind of famous Princess Diana of Wales lots but HM Queen cant given Camilla married to Prince Charles for more reasons! since Princess Diana's death in 1997.

please no comments about Camilla and Princess Diana!

Sara Boyce

Ennyllorac 11-14-2004 03:51 PM

Camilla and Diana, Princess of Wales are two different people. I was a big fan of Diana. However, Camilla is the present and an important person in the Prince of Wales life. We are not to judge what happened because no one really knows except those involved. However, I do have a question. If the Prince of Wales does remarry and he is still heir to the throne wouldn't his new wife be automatically called the Princess of Wales. Her title is not granted through her own right but through marriage. I do believe that out of respect for Prince William and Prince Harry, that she should not be called Princess of Wales if that could be avoided.

wymanda 11-14-2004 06:56 PM

She would automatically be entitled to be known as Princess of Wales. My suggestion at the start of the thread was that, in a similar fashion to Lady Louise's title, the Queen issue a statement &/or Letters Patent that while Camilla shares ALL of Charles titles & rank she would be known as Duchess of Cornwall or one of Charles other titles in recognition of Diana's life & work.

MoonlightRhapsody 11-14-2004 09:06 PM

For me, I think that the Queen will outlast Prince Charles so this is a moot point.

However, I really don't like Camilla. Anyone who is willing to ruin a marriage and a family of another doesn't deserve my respect. She (and admittingly, him too, though it does take two to tango) had broken the sanctity of a marriage on both ends, hers and Charles'. Therefore, emotionally, I think the only title she should have is 'Royal Mistress'.

However...LEGALLY, there's nothing that can be done that would prevent her from not taking the title 'Princess of Wales' though I would thourougly abhore it. My only consolation is that I don't have to be in the same family as she is.


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