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MAfan 11-07-2015 03:37 AM

Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria, and the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies: Nov. 2015-
 
Welcome to the thread about
H.R.H. Prince Pedro of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, Duke of Calabria,
and the Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ciliesArms.jpg

This thread is to discuss Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria, and the Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, commencing from November 2015.
The thread to discuss the late Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria (1938-2015) and previous news about the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies can be found here.

lula 11-07-2015 06:02 AM

Pedro de Borbon Dos Sicilias has signed a document assuming the titles of Duke of Calabria and Count of Caserta. His son Jaime, is the new Duke of Noto.

http://www.constantinianorder.org/im...4b00d6b111.jpg
http://www.constantinianorder.org/im...4b00d6b112.jpg

Signing the document

http://www.constantinianorder.org/im...54b0115d1b.jpg

Photo of his family

http://www.constantinianorder.org/im...54b00d2810.jpg

Duc_et_Pair 11-07-2015 07:16 AM

Well, I can sign a document myself too, of course. Anyway, in the end he will be the Duke of Calabria and head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies anyway as "the other side" has no sons.

maria-olivia 11-07-2015 12:39 PM

I have 2 questions :

Is the new Duke of Calabria Infant of Spain ?

There are 3 Generations of Duchesses of Calabria , Alice , Anne and Sofia. How are they styled, First Dowager, Second Dowager and actual Duchess of Calabria ???

Charlotte_Aster 11-07-2015 12:59 PM

The Duke of Calabria is a Grandee of Spain, but not an Infante.
AFAIK the dowagers are referred to as Infanta Alicia, the Dowager Duchess (or Alicia de Borbon) and Princess Anne, the Dowager Duchess (Ana de Orleans).

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_de_Orleans
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_de_Borb%C3%B3n

Duc_et_Pair 11-07-2015 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1836612)
I have 2 questions :

Is the new Duke of Calabria Infant of Spain ?

There are 3 Generations of Duchesses of Calabria , Alice , Anne and Sofia. How are they styled, First Dowager, Second Dowager and actual Duchess of Calabria ???

The new Duke of Calabria is no Infante de España, as his father's title was ad personam. As son of an Infante, the new Duke can be styled as a Grande de España but that will never happen as his own style HRH The Duke of Calabria is always superior to that of a Grande.

Alicia, Duquesa viuda de Calabria
Su Alteza Real la princesa Alicia de Borbón-Parma y Austria-Lorena, Duquesa viuda de Calabria, Condesa viuda de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Infanta de España

Ana, Duquesa viuda de Calabria

Su Alteza Real la princesa Ana de Orleans y Orleans-Braganza, Duquesa viuda de Calabria, Condesa viuda de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Infanta de España

La Duquesa de Calabria

Su Alteza Real Doña Sofía Landaluce y Melgarejo, Duquesa de Calabria, Condesa de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias

HereditaryPrincess 11-07-2015 01:31 PM

Thanks for the photos lula. I have never seen a photo of the new Duke of Calabria's children before and it looks as if this photo was taken at Princess María's christening. Princess Sofía and Princess Blanca are really sweet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1836540)
Well, I can sign a document myself too, of course. Anyway, in the end he will be the Duke of Calabria and head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies anyway as "the other side" has no sons.

Prince Carlo has nephews, though the oldest of his nephews (Nicholas Cochin) is untitled, so I don't think he would be eligible to be the opposite claimant.

maria-olivia 11-07-2015 01:38 PM

Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

HereditaryPrincess 11-07-2015 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1836630)
Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

That's right. According to Wikipedia she is a Grandee of Spain but not an Infanta. She's was born a Princess d'Orléans and when she married Infante Carlos she became a Princess of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

MAfan 11-07-2015 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess (Post 1836627)
Prince Carlo has nephews, though the oldest of his nephews (Nicholas Cochin) is untitled, so I don't think he would be eligible to be the opposite claimant.

The succession in the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies follows the salic law, so there is no way for the nephews of the Duke of Castro to succeed him.
Instead, currently his successor is Prince Antoine, the eldest son of the late Prince Gabriele (himself the youngest brother of both Prince Carlo, the grandfather of Infante Carlos, and of Prince Ranieri, the grandfather of the Duke of Castro). However Prince Antoine is 86, so it is unlikely that he will survive the Duke of Castro. After Prince Antoine, the next in line is his son Prince Franz (born in 1960) who is in turn followed by his own son Antoine (born in 2003).

Duc_et_Pair 11-07-2015 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1836630)
Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

Is the spouse of an Infante not an Infanta, like the spouse of a King is a Queen, the spouse of a Prince is a Princess, the spouse of a Duke is a Duchess?

Stefan 11-07-2015 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1836639)
Is the spouse of an Infante not an Infanta, like the spouse of a King is a Queen, the spouse of a Prince is a Princess, the spouse of a Duke is a Duchess?

This was the case earlier. That an spouse to an Infante in an equal marriage was Infanta. But since the Royal Decree about the Royal titles in 1987 the title Infante/Infanta is poersonakl. And in 1994 the Itle was given to the late Duke of Calabria but not to his wife. Therefore she was never an infanta like her mohter-in-law.

An Ard Ri 11-07-2015 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess (Post 1836632)
That's right. According to Wikipedia she is a Grandee of Spain but not an Infanta. She's was born a Princess d'Orléans and when she married Infante Carlos she became a Princess of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

When Princess Anne married Prince Carlos he wasn't an Infante of Spain,that royal title wasn't bestowed on him until 1994.

An Ard Ri 11-07-2015 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1836646)
This was the case earlier. That an spouse to an Infante in an equal marriage was Infanta. But since the Royal Decree about the Royal titles in 1987 the title Infante/Infanta is poersonakl. And in 1994 the Itle was given to the late Duke of Calabria but not to his wife. Therefore she was never an infanta like her mohter-in-law.

Thanks Stefan for the explanation that makes sense!

Marengo 11-07-2015 02:49 PM

I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

Stefan 11-07-2015 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1836652)
I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

It should have been made clear to her that the title was only given to spouses who where equal under the Pragamtic Decree from King Carlos III.
But indeed in the past the Title of Infante was sometimes also given tot the equal husbands of Infantas.

MAfan 11-07-2015 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1836652)
I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

I didn't know that detail; however, it would make more sense if it was Infanta Margarita to object, since in 1994 she was the one to still have an husband while Infanta Pilar was already widowed.

An Ard Ri 11-07-2015 07:07 PM

Infanta Pilar's husband Don Luis Gómez-Acebo,Viscount de la Torre died in 1991 but I guess she could still have objected after he died.I'd never have put Infanta Margarita down for one who cared about titles,her older sister maybe.

Biri 11-08-2015 05:07 AM

New Duke of Calabria and his family (baptism of the youngest child):

La famille du nouveau duc de Calabre - Noblesse & Royautés

Duc_et_Pair 11-08-2015 05:41 AM

Hm... no one can claim that Anne d'Orléans y Orléans-Bragança is not equal to her spouse Carlos de Borbón-Dos Sicilias y Borbón-Parma... In my own personal opinon it makes no sense that Letizia Ortiz simply could be addressed as "Princess of Asturias" and as "Queen of Spain" by virtue of her marriage while Anne can be styled as a Grande de España (which is an empty and meaningless shell anyway because her royal titles by marriage and by birth outclass the grandeeship). Thanks for the information, I did not know that Doña Alicia can be addressed as Infanta de España but her equally impressively royalborn daughter-in-law can not. Never too old to learn something new...


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