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Duc_et_Pair 07-28-2015 02:04 PM

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family
 
The newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws mentions that according Mario Danneels, an insider in royal news, Prince Amedeo indeed did not ask for royal permission to marry Donna Elisabetta.

Without royal permission also no Royal Decree (approval from the Government) as required according Article 85 of the Belgian Constitution. Donna Elisabetta can be called Princess of Belgium by the way, as that is her husband's title.

Children of Prince Amedeo will be Archduke (Archduchess) of Austria and Prince (Princess) of Hungary. Because Prince Amedeo did not ask for permission, he is no longer in the line of succession for the Belgian throne, nor will be his children.

Source: Prins Amedeo niet meer troongerechtigd - HLN.be

Moonmaiden23 07-28-2015 03:00 PM

Amedeo seems such an upright guy. Even though it's a formality getting permission to marry his girlfriend would have been a very simple thing to do and there is no doubt permission would have been given. Lili is a well-educated Catholic with an impeccable pedigree and controversy-free background.

So unless I've misjudged him and he's a secret rebel/Republican something, why did he not go through the formality of seeking permission to wed?

Duc_et_Pair 07-28-2015 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 (Post 1805352)
Amedeo seems such an upright guy. Even though it's a formality getting permission to marry his girlfriend would have been a very simple thing to do and there is no doubt permission would have been given. Lili is a well-educated Catholic with an impeccable pedigree and controversy-free background.

So unless I've misjudged him and he's a secret rebel/Republican something, why did he not go through the formality of seeking permission to wed?

Most likely Prince Amedeo was requested not to seek permission, to limit the exploding number of Princes and Princesses of Belgium. Initially his father and his offspring were no Prince(ss) of Belgium anyway.

Marengo 07-28-2015 03:29 PM

:previous:

I believe that that was established by posters on this forum and elsewhere some months ago. So Danneels or HLN certainly do not have the scoop.

To Moonmaiden:

Perhaps his uncle asked him not to. Something simular happened with the younger sons of Margriet. They were asked not to ask for permission as the succession was safely established. The two elder van Vollenhovens did ask for permission as all 3 sons of Beatrix were not married and theoretically they might all have lost their succession rights one way or the other.

In Belgium the king has 4 children. It is unlikely thatthey will be removed from the succession line in some way. But if that is the case I suppose the throne would go to Maria-Laura eventually.

It will be interesting to see what will happen to Laurent's sons. I doubt they will ask for permission. But unlike Amedeo they do not have another last name or title.

BTW did Lorenz title get incorperated in the Belgian nobility, as was the case for AD Rudolph who legally is Prince von Habsburg in Belgium?

I suppose that we still do not know what Elisabetta will be called. Archduchess E. or Princess Amedeo perhaps? Quite odd that the Belgian court is not clear about it.

Moonmaiden23 07-28-2015 05:43 PM

Thanks Duc and Marengo...I always learn so much from the two of you;)!

leidi 07-28-2015 06:12 PM

Le prince Amedeo a renoncé à sa place dans l'ordre de succession au trône - La Libre.be

According to this, by not asking permission to marry, Amedeo gave up his sucession rights, he doesn't want to do official acts and live under scrutiny, that's why Elisabetta was never created a Princess of Belgium but she's an Archduchess due to Amedeo's paternal titles.

rominet09 07-28-2015 07:26 PM

What amazes me is that the papers have been so long to realize.... not a new fact I think !

Blog Real 07-28-2015 07:35 PM

I like Amedeo. I am sorry that it is outside the line of succession. :sad:

An Ard Ri 07-28-2015 07:37 PM

Would it be correct to style Elisabetta 'HI&RH Archduchess of Austria-Este' seeing as she was not made a Princess of Belgium?

Al_bina 07-28-2015 07:38 PM

Prince Amedeo knew what he was doing. If he decided not to seek a formal approval of his spouse, there had to be a reason for that. The Belgian royal family has enough people in the succession line. Given attempts to streamline the royal family, King Phillipe's children are the nucleus of the succession line.

Is there a reason to remove Prince Laurent's children from the succession line? Does the Belgian government intend to do so?

Blog Real 07-28-2015 07:47 PM

And now we will still see less often Amedeo and Lili. :sad:

Marengo 07-29-2015 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 1805425)


Is there a reason to remove Prince Laurent's children from the succession line? Does the Belgian government intend to do so?

There is no direct reason at this point, apart from the streamlining you mention. The children of Laurent are further down the line. So if Amedeo was asked not to seek approval, I suppose we can assume something similar will happen for the others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri
Would it be correct to style Elisabetta 'HI&RH Archduchess of Austria-Este' seeing as she was not made a Princess of Belgium?

Mathilde, Lorenz and Claire were all created prince(ss) in their own right. This did not happen with Elisabetta. But she can still use her husbands titles, like many wives do (like Princess Alexandre / Lea Wolman).





Of course if she will actually use that name/title is unknown. Neither has the court given any clarity on the matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rominet
What amazes me is that the papers have been so long to realize.... not a new fact I think !

The issue was discussed a few days ago at the BRMB. Perhaps the newspaper got inspired there. It happens more often that royalty forums are used by journalists for inspiration for articles or topics.

maria-olivia 07-29-2015 07:02 AM

They will continue the Habsbourg Este , Prince Lorenz is the head of.

Amedeo is working and wants free life . The Government never gave the tittle of Princess of Belgium to Lilli.

When his father Prince Lorenz married the King's Niece , Philippe and Laurent were still unmarried and Astrid was N° 2 , it was King Baudouin's will.

leidi 07-29-2015 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1805502)
They will continue the Habsbourg Este , Prince Lorenz is the head of.

Amedeo is working and wants free life . The Government never gave the tittle of Princess of Belgium to Lilli.

When his father Prince Lorenz married the King's Niece , Philippe and Laurent were still unmarried and Astrid was N° 2 , it was King Baudouin's will.

Wasn't the law changed in 1991? I remember that when Astrid got married in 1984, Laurent was still ahead of her in the sucession line and it was one of the reasons why Baudouin pushed for a change in the law, to keep that loose cannon as far away from the throne as possible.

Mbruno 07-29-2015 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 1805410)
Le prince Amedeo a renoncé à sa place dans l'ordre de succession au trône - La Libre.be

According to this, by not asking permission to marry, Amedeo gave up his sucession rights, he doesn't want to do official acts and live under scrutiny, that's why Elisabetta was never created a Princess of Belgium but she's an Archduchess due to Amedeo's paternal titles.


Now that Amedeo is no longer in the line of succession, the logical next step would be for him and his wife not to live in any Crown estate in the Royal Domain of Laeken. Let's see if he will do that.

leidi 07-29-2015 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1805505)
Now that Amedeo is no longer in the line of succession, the logical next step would be for him and his wife not to live in any Crown estate in the Royal Domain of Laeken. Let's see if he will do that.

I guess he could live in his parents' villa but not get one for him & Lili alone, right?

Mbruno 07-29-2015 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 1805508)
I guess he could live in his parents' villa but not get one for him & Lili alone, right?

The problem is that, as far as I understand, it is not "his parents' villa". It is Crown property made permanently available to members of the Royal Family (a settlement that was reached when the family transferred ownership of the Royal Domain to the State).

I suppose Amedeo is still part of the family, but I think living in Crown property should be a perk available only to people in the line of succession , or former monarchs (upon abdication) and/or their wives/widows. Otherwise, it looks like one wants all the benefits of being a royal without the obligations that come with it. That is only my personal opinion though.

Stefan 07-29-2015 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 1805508)
I guess he could live in his parents' villa but not get one for him & Lili alone, right?

Perhaps if he is paying rent for it.

Duc_et_Pair 07-29-2015 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 1805424)
Would it be correct to style Elisabetta 'HI&RH Archduchess of Austria-Este' seeing as she was not made a Princess of Belgium?

Donna Elisabetta herself is created nothing. She can be addressed with her spouse's titles: Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Elisabetta of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria and Princess of Hungary. Like any Belgian lady who marries a Prince, a Duke, a Marquess, a Count, a Viscount, a Baron can be addressed with her spouse's title.

:flowers:

Duc_et_Pair 07-29-2015 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1805510)
Perhaps if he is paying rent for it.

Yes, the Donation Royale has LOTS of properties and most of these are rented out. If it can be rented to mr X or mrs Y, it can be rented out too to Prince Amedeo of Belgium, of course.

:flowers:


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