The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   Member Introductions (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f131/)
-   -   what is nobility? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f131/what-is-nobility-37084.html)

Nigel 06-22-2014 01:01 AM

what is nobility?
 
Hi,
Just joined this forum, I am the eldest of the eldest descendent of a polynesian princess and am just trying to work out what it means. I tend to think that it will mean nothing in todays world.
Ka Kite
N

HereditaryPrincess 06-23-2014 05:35 PM

Hello and :welcome:. I hope you enjoy your time here!

***
I didn't quite understand your question as I wasn't sure whether you were asking what nobility and royalty means in general, or is there any background information on Polynesian Royalty. Here are some links that might help you:

List of monarchs of Mangareva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Royal family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nobility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jacknch 06-23-2014 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel (Post 1679079)
Hi,
Just joined this forum, I am the eldest of the eldest descendent of a polynesian princess and am just trying to work out what it means. I tend to think that it will mean nothing in todays world.
Ka Kite
N

Welcome!
When you say descendent, how far back are you talking about? Was the Polynesian princess your grandmother? If so, then I would say you had noble blood, but if she lived 300 years ago, then I think it's too far back and the nobility of blood will be rather diluted!

Nigel 06-23-2014 07:27 PM

Eldest of the Eldest descendent of the Eldest signatory on land title deeds signing land to the Crown in NZ (under dubious circumstances) on behalf of a Maori Iwi in NZ, in the late 1800's.
Great... grand mother was aged 11 at the time of signing.
The family was compensated 8000 acres in the south island in the 1900's for land loss.

Nigel 06-23-2014 07:31 PM

Great grandmother received 2000 acres of Maori land under Maori Lease, grandfather was number 1 in NZ in mathematics and on scholarship to private schools and RAF flight instructor. I was number 1 as well. My Grandfather decided after world war 2, not to have anything to do with anything Maori and died at quite a young age after world war 2. I only found out we still owned Maori land a few years ago.

Osipi 06-23-2014 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel (Post 1679711)
Great grandmother received 2000 acres of Maori land under Maori Lease, grandfather was number 1 in NZ in mathematics and on scholarship to private schools and RAF flight instructor. I was number 1 as well. My Grandfather decided after world war 2, not to have anything to do with anything Maori and died at quite a young age after world war 2. I only found out we still owned Maori land a few years ago.

What a beautiful and rich heritage you have! Even though your grandfather did not wish to acknowledge his heritage, it doesn't mean that you have to. I would imagine that it meant a lot to you during William and Kate's tour of New Zealand to see the warm welcoming and traditional welcoming that was presented to them by the Maori. I found it quite impressive myself.

As far as the nobility question and Jacknch's answer, I would go with your great grandmother being fairly recent enough to definitely include yourself as a noble descendant. Have you talked with the Maori themselves? I would think that their elders would be the deciding factor. It certainly seems that you would have the necessary proof to present to them.

Hmmm.. come to think of it.. Prince George is the great grandchild of HM, The Queen and he's pretty darned royal and noble I think.

Nigel 06-23-2014 07:52 PM

It might be a bad thing, my great great grandfather after receiving 8000 acres compensation (for being landless) quickly sold it and fled the country to Australia. The only thing the tribe remembers about us is we show up with there is land to claim.
My great grandmother was very prominent in the Maori community though.

Nigel 06-23-2014 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 1679716)
What a beautiful and rich heritage you have! Even though your grandfather did not wish to acknowledge his heritage, it doesn't mean that you have to. I would imagine that it meant a lot to you during William and Kate's tour of New Zealand to see the warm welcoming and traditional welcoming that was presented to them by the Maori. I found it quite impressive myself.

As far as the nobility question and Jacknch's answer, I would go with your great grandmother being fairly recent enough to definitely include yourself as a noble descendant. Have you talked with the Maori themselves? I would think that their elders would be the deciding factor. It certainly seems that you would have the necessary proof to present to them.

Hmmm.. come to think of it.. Prince George is the great grandchild of HM, The Queen and he's pretty darned royal and noble I think.

Going back to the tribal area it felt really awkward, basically people undertake management of the tribe, I am not really Polynesian perhaps very little due to ancestry. In saying that most of the tribe are diluted to certain extents these day. Our family was sent by the tribe to private schooling and from there they only married Europeans. I think being Maori in NZ is just an idea, in the same way a Roman proclaimed Rome to be 'but an idea', conversely the Maori King was on TV giving an address usually reserved for Queen Elizabeth.

Osipi 06-23-2014 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel (Post 1679719)
It might be a bad thing, my great great grandfather after receiving 8000 acres compensation (for being landless) quickly sold it and fled the country to Australia. The only thing the tribe remembers about us is we show up with there is land to claim.
My great grandmother was very prominent in the Maori community though.

Therein, I think, lies your answer. From this posting and the one following it, I would venture to say that you have a heritage of nobility (or whatever term the Maori use for such) to pass down to your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren (I'm a great grandmother myself so I don't eliminate the fact that great grandparents never meet their great grandchildren).

It may not matter is in the circles of the tribe of the Maori, it may not matter in any book of peerage or whatever but it can and does matter to you and that's what makes it important.

Nigel 06-23-2014 08:19 PM

Its interesting, one does a search on google on my great great grandfather and articles in papers-newspapers-books held in museums come up, showing pictures of the family outlining their 'aristocratic attendance at cricket games with their maori princess mother" and "other social events", in the exact same way the society section in newspapers do the same thing today except with more recognised European noble families, so nearly 100 years ago it did mean something in NZ.
What it means today - I don't know.

Osipi 06-23-2014 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel (Post 1679728)
Its interesting, one does a search on google on my great great grandfather and articles in papers-newspapers-books held in museums come up, showing pictures of the family outlining their 'aristocratic attendance at cricket games with their maori princess mother" and "other social events", in the exact same way the society section in newspapers do the same thing today except with more recognised European noble families, so nearly 100 years ago it did mean something in NZ.
What it means today - I don't know.

It means you have something to be very, very proud of!

I think if you explore the various areas and threads of The Royal Forums, you will find that there are many discussions of the history and pedigree and relationships of various royal, aristocratic and noble families where some are no longer reigning or recognized. Perhaps if there isn't a section listed for the Maori here, you may want to start one? All the history and its people are very well worth preserving for the future.

Nigel 06-23-2014 08:38 PM

Maori society was a class society, it still is, which indicates that nobility is considered genetic, however recognition is also based on another's recognition, I have never considered being recognised for Polynesian ancestry - however little it now is.
Leadership is somewhat rather more complicated.

LeJardin 02-05-2016 03:24 AM

There maybe another factor, in play, some of the Polynesian Kingdoms have created more then one line of linage in case of tribal warfare wiping out an entire line of the family. So there maybe TWO royal lines.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises