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-   -   Would Elizabeth have become Queen anyway? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f118/would-elizabeth-have-become-queen-anyway-33260.html)

dpjgen 06-12-2012 10:13 PM

Would Elizabeth have become Queen anyway?
 
QE II is Queen because her father, George VI, was King and died; she was the oldest of only two daughters. So, if her Uncle, Edward VIII, say he never had abdicated and whether or not he ever married, but also never had any children, wouldn't QE II still have eventually become Queen? Let's assume Edward VIII died while he was King without any children. Wouldn't George VI have still become King? Then, wouldn't Elizabeth still have become Queen? All this of course would have presumably happened many years later. And it would also have assumed that George VI hadn't died before Edward VIII. In that case, I would guess that the crown would have gone to one of their brothers - Prince Henry, William or John and then to one of their children.

HRHHermione 06-12-2012 10:21 PM

No, it would have gone to Elizabeth anyway. She was third in line at birth behind her father and Edward VIII. But, as Edward was young, it was assumed that he would have children which would have made it unlikely that Elizabeth would ever ascend the throne.

US Royal Watcher 06-12-2012 10:56 PM

Interesting question dpjgen. Of course, Edward the VIII never had any children, so if he had been allowed to marry Wallis Simpson and remain King, Elizabeth would have eventually ascended the throne, although not until 1972, when Edward died.

VictoriaB 06-12-2012 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpjgen (Post 1429646)
QE II is Queen because her father, George VI, was King and died; she was the oldest of only two daughters. So, if her Uncle, Edward VIII, say he never had abdicated and whether or not he ever married, but also never had any children, wouldn't QE II still have eventually become Queen? Let's assume Edward VIII died while he was King without any children. Wouldn't George VI have still become King? Then, wouldn't Elizabeth still have become Queen? All this of course would have presumably happened many years later. And it would also have assumed that George VI hadn't died before Edward VIII. In that case, I would guess that the crown would have gone to one of their brothers - Prince Henry, William or John and then to one of their children.


If Edward had not abdicated but the Queen's father had died before him the crown would still have passed to Elizabeth when Edward died. It would never have gone to one of the King's younger brothers because Elizabeth was always higher than them in the order of succession.

Jacknch 06-13-2012 01:18 AM

It's a question I've often pondered over the years.
Imagine that if Edward had been allowed to marry Wallis Simpson, they still never had children, Bertie had still died before Edward and Edward still died in 1972, Queen Elizabeth II would have been celebrating her Ruby Jubilee - 40 years - and not her Diamond Jubilee! Maybe a double celebration with Queen Margrethe II!!

fandesacs2003 06-13-2012 03:05 AM

On December 27th, into the thread about Duc and Duchess of Windsor, I had post a similar question about QEII and I received some very interesting explanations. It is post no 1003 and onwars.
Have a look, if i posted correctly.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1351033

Lumutqueen 06-13-2012 03:19 AM

Elizabeth would have become Queen and potentially her father a King, if Edward never had any children. Simple.

RoyalistRiley 06-15-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1429670)
It's a question I've often pondered over the years.
Imagine that if Edward had been allowed to marry Wallis Simpson, they still never had children, Bertie had still died before Edward and Edward still died in 1972, Queen Elizabeth II would have been celebrating her Ruby Jubilee - 40 years - and not her Diamond Jubilee! Maybe a double celebration with Queen Margrethe II!!

I wonder if George VI would have lived a much longer life if he didn't have to face the strains of war as King and had a decent (for lack of a better word) post 1945? Elizabeth II may have been like Prince Charles in this alternate history - waiting for something (accession to the throne) that may or may not come.

scooter 06-19-2012 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1429704)
Elizabeth would have become Queen and potentially her father a King, if Edward never had any children. Simple.

I have read in a few books, that at the time of the abdication a deal was struck re: David having a vasectomy (who knows if it's true). Had he remained on the throne, assuming normal sexual function and fertility, he might have had children. Perhaps not by Wallis, but fate has proven itself capricious. What if Wallis had died, for example in a car wreck in Paris, and David remarried? Perhaps the second wife would have had a child. In that case, it would be the heir. If not, certainly we would stil have QEII.

HRHHermione 06-19-2012 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooter (Post 1432415)
I have read in a few books, that at the time of the abdication a deal was struck re: David having a vasectomy (who knows if it's true). Had he remained on the throne, assuming normal sexual function and fertility, he might have had children. Perhaps not by Wallis, but fate has proven itself capricious. What if Wallis had died, for example in a car wreck in Paris, and David remarried? Perhaps the second wife would have had a child. In that case, it would be the heir. If not, certainly we would stil have QEII.

One the abdication was complete, David and his children were out of the line of succession entirely. Any child he had would never have replaced Elizabeth as the heir.

auntie 06-19-2012 01:16 AM

Even if Edward viii would have ascended the throne and Wallis become queen consort, In the case that they wouldn't have had children EII would have reigned, but it would have been a different monarchy, the jewels would have been plundered, the private assets completely depleted, and the nation wouldnt have had respect for the whole institution

Jacknch 06-19-2012 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie (Post 1432419)
Even if Edward viii would have ascended the throne and Wallis become queen consort, In the case that they wouldn't have had children EII would have reigned, but it would have been a different monarchy, the jewels would have been plundered, the private assets completely depleted, and the nation wouldnt have had respect for the whole institution

I agree, it would have been a different monarchy and the issue of the jewels and private assets is an interesting one! It would certainly have been a different royal family and one wonders how it would all have turned out - would Elizabeth still have married Philip and would they still have had four children with the ten year gap between the second and third children?
Elizabeth would still have been a wonderful queen, but there is something about the fact that she came to the throne an apparently vulnerable/quite shy young woman who has now reigned for decades but who was at the beginning thrown in at the deep end on the sudden death of her father. Would the circumstances of coming to the throne later in life have changed her style of reigning I wonder?

NGalitzine 06-19-2012 08:37 AM

As for the jewels, would Queen Mary have left anything to Queen Wallis or would she have bypassed her and left the bulks of her jewels to the Duchess of York and her eldest daughter?

MichelleQ2 06-19-2012 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NGalitzine
As for the jewels, would Queen Mary have left anything to Queen Wallis or would she have bypassed her and left the bulks of her jewels to the Duchess of York and her eldest daughter?

I wonder how much of Mary leaving the jewels to QE2 was the tax laws whereby the sovereign is exempt from paying inheritance tax

Duke of Marmalade 06-19-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen (Post 1429704)
Elizabeth would have become Queen and potentially her father a King, if Edward never had any children. Simple.

Quite a likely scenario, one of the things that I cant really imagine is Wallis as a mother.

auntie 06-19-2012 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NGalitzine (Post 1432537)
As for the jewels, would Queen Mary have left anything to Queen Wallis or would she have bypassed her and left the bulks of her jewels to the Duchess of York and her eldest daughter?

George V did pass a law that any presents received by the monarch or consort during their reign belonged to the state and could not go to anyone else, thus preventing major peices from getting lost along the line (Kokoshnik tiara comes to mind) b/c of a favorite daughter. As of private pieces, Queen Mary could have bequeathed it in her lifetime. But haveing Princess Lilian of Belgium on mind, she did sell major pieces, perhaps to spite the fact that her children were not part of the succesion. I do recall reading that Edward VIII was so desperate to keep the throne and Wallis, he suggested that maybe if Parliament was in agreement, he would marry her, she would never be crowned queen, and any children would never succeed, parliament (and maybe Wallis) never agreed


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