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davidf85 06-11-2012 01:15 PM

European Union
 
Maybe someone can answer me this:
What kind of part are the Royal Families in Europe playing alongside the looming European Union and its reformation towards a financial dominion in Europe, based in Germany?

It seems to me like now is the time for the Royal Family, whether officially and majestically recognized, or legally pretenders, to take hold upon their royal duties within their respective countries, to their supporters and countrymen.

If the European Union succeeds in all its intentions, there may be no more royal families, or Royal Titles at all. All European countries' money would be governed by an EU office in Berlin which would officially annex any legal and monetary responsibility for any of the Royal Households.

I sincerely hope the EU does not succeed, and I hope the Crown rises again in Europe under the greatest, and most gracious of majesties.

Lumutqueen 06-11-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidf85 (Post 1429059)
What kind of part are the Royal Families in Europe playing alongside the looming European Union and its reformation towards a financial dominion in Europe, based in Germany?

They don't have a role in the European Union. Politics is not their business and decisions are made within their respectives government.

EIIR 06-11-2012 03:22 PM

Interestingly, there is a substantial group of people in the UK who believe that the Queen has broken her coronation oath by giving royal assent to treaties and laws which have diluted the sovereignty of the United Kingdom by handing power to unaccountable bureaucrats in the European Union. By allowing European law to have supremacy over the law of her own sovereign Parliament.

I don't think the EU will get as far as essentially abolishing the nation state; although for 'true believers' of the EU that is the ultimate goal. The EU will implode shortly when the peoples, particularly in the Eurozone, realise the utterly catastrophic mistake that was the creation of the Euro. The only solution to the current problem is to create a system like that in the US, whereby the wealthier states transfer funds to the poorer states. That's acceptable to Americans because it's helping their fellow countrymen and women. It's not the same when it's Germans who are expected to transfer hundreds of billions of Euros to Greeks or Spaniards, with whom they have very little in common and very little allegiance.

In short, I don't think this is going to be a huge issue because the EU is going to collapse in the short to medium term. Just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.

davidf85 06-11-2012 10:06 PM

UK supporters
 
Could you tell me what these groups are?
Do you know of any active groups that support the Queens rule, or any rule of any of the Royal Families?

Artemisia 06-12-2012 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EIIR (Post 1429122)
Interestingly, there is a substantial group of people in the UK who believe that the Queen has broken her coronation oath by giving royal assent to treaties and laws which have diluted the sovereignty of the United Kingdom by handing power to unaccountable bureaucrats in the European Union. By allowing European law to have supremacy over the law of her own sovereign Parliament.

I often wondered, isn't the supremacy of European law over British one simply illegal?
To my understanding, Magna Carta (which is still the basis of law in Britain) is very specific about "foreign powers".
Article 37 (passed during the reign of Elizabeth I and still in force): "The Queen's Majesty ... is not, and ought not to be, subject to any foreign jurisdiction".

Lumutqueen 06-12-2012 03:01 PM

I think a few laws have been passed or some have clauses in which lead to British Law being dictated or controlled in certain ways by the EU. I studied it a while back for my A-Levels, there was a lot of fuss over the matter last year.

EIIR 06-12-2012 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemisia (Post 1429435)
I often wondered, isn't the supremacy of European law over British one simply illegal?
To my understanding, Magna Carta (which is still the basis of law in Britain) is very specific about "foreign powers".
Article 37 (passed during the reign of Elizabeth I and still in force): "The Queen's Majesty ... is not, and ought not to be, subject to any foreign jurisdiction".

One of the central tenets of the British Constitution is that no parliament can tie the hands of any future parliament. So, in 1972 Parliament passed the European Communities Act which ensured the supremacy of EU law in those areas where the EU had competency. Essentially, Parliament has chosen to limit its own sovereignty.

Strictly speaking, Parliament could repeal the ECA and once again proclaim the supremacy of UK law in all areas; but this would essentially mean leaving the EU altogether. The EU does not recognise the concept of Parliamentary Sovereignty at all.

In all honesty, this is a controversial and much-debated area of constitutional law in the UK. All sorts of different legal experts and judges have differing opinions on this. I studied one module of EU Law for my law degree (google the Factortame case if you're ever having difficulty sleeping) and that was more than enough in all honesty.

As regards the people who believe the Queen has broken her Coronation Oath; they're not really an organised group or anything. They often comment at the Telegraph Blogs website. Here's a couple of links to give some idea of what they believe (please note these are very much minority opinions and should be treated as such):

Thoughts on the Diamond Jubilee | The Libertarian Alliance: BLOG
EU Referendum

Jacknch 06-12-2012 04:09 PM

With regard to the Queen's Coronation Oath, I think this is one of many, many examples where ther Queen's postion has been compromised by those who should know better. I would like the Queen and her successors to have more authority over the government for the simple reason that I trust the Queen's judgement more than the judgement of those in government.....on the basis of common sense and self control.
The situation with regard to the Euro is terrible and especially unfortunate for the PEOPLE of those countries in such financial crisis. It is bad enough that hardly a single European was able to vote for the Euro and the EU as it was all done without proper consent, the worst of it now is that we have to see EU governments, financial ministers etc running around like headless chickens trying to find a solution to a problem for which clearly and obviously there is no solution.

EIIR 06-12-2012 04:31 PM

But that sums the EU up in a nutshell, Jack. Total contempt for the citizens of Europe and their opinions. I'll never forget the people of the Republic of Ireland voting against the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum. How did the EU react to that democratic decision of the citizens of the ROI? Made them hold the referendum again to give them the opportunity to make the 'right' choice.

An EU referendum on the UK's membership of this corrupt, anti-democratic club is coming though, I just hope the British people take the chance to restore our sovereignty and independence.

Jack, I understand your point about giving the Queen more power; or rather letting the Queen use her power rather that letting the PM use the Royal Prerogatives. This would cause enormous problems for the monarchy, though. Having an hereditary monarch refusing to sign a law passed by the democratically elected HoC would be the first step in its journey to abolition. Polls have proven the Queen is the most trusted person in the UK, way ahead of any politician; but chances are some monarch down the years would not be trusted and that would be a very dangerous situation for the monarchy.

Lumutqueen 06-12-2012 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EIIR (Post 1429548)
An EU referendum on the UK's membership of this corrupt, anti-democratic club is coming though, I just hope the British people take the chance to restore our sovereignty and independence.

I'll certainly be voting the 'wrong' way. ;)

RoyalistRiley 06-12-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacknch (Post 1429532)
The situation with regard to the Euro is terrible and especially unfortunate for the PEOPLE of those countries in such financial crisis. It is bad enough that hardly a single European was able to vote for the Euro and the EU as it was all done without proper consent, the worst of it now is that we have to see EU governments, financial ministers etc running around like headless chickens trying to find a solution to a problem for which clearly and obviously there is no solution.

As a non-European, I would agree with your sentiments about how the greatest tragedy of the Euro/EU experiment is that no one bothered to ask the people. It is also amusing from a non-EU perspective that when you do get a chance to vote, your government makes you keep voting until you pick the "right" option (e.g. Ireland).

EIIR 06-12-2012 05:30 PM

The democratic deficit is enormous with regards to the EU. The only time the British people have been asked in a referendum about the UK's relationship with Europe was in 1975 when the question was whether to join the European Economic Community i.e. the single market. The electorate backed membership of the EEC.

So, we were happy to join essentially a trade association. However, the powers of the EU have ballooned enormously since then and we have had no say in the matter. We were never asked if we wanted to hand over powers to the EU on defence, foreign affairs, health, education etc. They've been taking powers from elected national governments for a long time.

davidf85 06-12-2012 05:45 PM

Defender of the Faith
 
The right given to the Ruler of the British Monarchy is one very deserving of the title "Defender of the Faith".
The Royal Faith, I do believe is very deep in religious and temporal meaning. It is obvious why there are those who do not believe in a monarchy, but it is sad to see that after years of democratic liberation in which people fight away from the monarchy for the sake of a more democratic whole, there is the possibility of an even greater central "ruler" in Europe (starting with the Central bank, which is the most obvious start to some form of dictator coming to power in Germany or wherever they decide to place the office if they do). And it is a shame that most EU officials perport themselves to be of a high degree of mind, worthy of encompassing the good of the people.... isn't this what a King or Queen was supposed to be doing? So why does the right exist for one who has steeped through democratic reform and moral fortitute but not for the thousand years of virtue and majesty that was obviously held by God for the English King?

davidf85 06-12-2012 05:49 PM

Right to leadership
 
Speaking of democratic sentiment, I am probably correct in assuming that a man trained and learned to the most highest degree of scholarship and experience, would be less accepted as true King of England, than a distant European University graduate affiliated with a recognized political party would be as LEADER OF EUROPEAN Financial interest. It sounds like someone is blowing the whistle on Oxford.

Lumutqueen 06-12-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidf85
why does the right exist for one who has steeped through democratic reform and moral fortitute but not for the thousand years of virtue and majesty that was obviously held by God for the English King?

When it comes down to the basics. A King or Queen is not an elected ruler. They no longer have the powers they used to, but someone else has to.

This thread is turning more political than royal, we have established the royals do not have a connection with the EU.


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