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Daphoenyx 10-29-2011 04:14 PM

Frederick, Prince of Wales (1707-1751) and Family
 
I have found online this portrait, made in 1751, of the family of Frederick, Prince of Wales.

Can anyone help me identify all the people in the painting? There is writing at the bottom, but I can't understand all of it, especially when it comes to the last column...

So, seated there is Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha, in her arms there should be her youngest child, Caroline Matilda.

On the left, standing, the older siblings: Augusta, George (in blue) and Edward (in red).

Now it gets confusing for me: the Princes of Wales had another 3 boys (William Henry, Henry and Frederick), but there are only two in the painting... Also, in the picture there are still three girls, the ones on the right, but the Wales' only had Elizabeth and Louisa... Can anyone help clarify this?

Thanks in advance :flowers:

Lumutqueen 10-29-2011 04:33 PM

The writing details, Augusta, George, Edward, another Augusta his wife, Caroline (actually Princess Elizabeth Caroline), William Henry, Henry Frederick, Louisa, Frederick William and Caroline Mathilda.

The Prince had 5 sons and 4 daughters according to wiki which accounts for the 9 people minus his wife in the picture. The baby sat on The Princess of Wales lap his Prince William Henry born in 1743 and the painting was done in 1744.

Daphoenyx 10-31-2011 01:13 AM

Thanks Lumutqueen for your answer!

But the portrait couldn't have been done in 1744, since at that time only 5 out of 9 children were born (and also the Prince of Wales was still alive at that time, while in the picture wasn't)... And in The Royal Collection website it's stated that the picture dates back to 1751. Thus, the baby in Augusta's arms should be their younger child, Caroline... Or not? Any thoughts about this?

Kataryn 11-01-2011 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daphoenyx (Post 1332260)
Thanks Lumutqueen for your answer!

But the portrait couldn't have been done in 1744, since at that time only 5 out of 9 children were born (and also the Prince of Wales was still alive at that time, while in the picture wasn't)... And in The Royal Collection website it's stated that the picture dates back to 1751. Thus, the baby in Augusta's arms should be their younger child, Caroline... Or not? Any thoughts about this?

Caroline Mathilda was born after her father's death in 1751. Frederick and Augusta had 9 children:

Augusta, George, Edward, Elizabeth, William, Henry, Louisa, Frederick and Caroline. So it's the persons that are portrayed: the eldest Augusta as a young lady, two taller princes - George and Edward.. But then it's strange: there should be three small princes (William, Henry and Frederick) and only two small princesses (Elizabeth and Louisa) plus Baby Caroline. In fact there should be two babies as Frederick was just one year old when Caroline was born. Come think of it, Louisa is only two in 1751. Probably old enough to play with a dog, though. Maybe it's a portrait of the Princess of Wales still pregnant with her last child. She looks as if she could be pregnant, as her dress is rather unrestricting. But who is the girl in the pink dress to the right, about 6 to 8 years old, considering Princess Elizabeth is 11, so surely the girl playing the lute?

Nice Nofret 11-01-2011 09:39 AM

.. as boy' where dressed as girls, till thei got there first trousers with around 3 to 4 Years ... the babies in dresses can be also boys

Kataryn 11-01-2011 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nice Nofret (Post 1332675)
.. as boy' where dressed as girls, till thei got there first trousers with around 3 to 4 Years ... the babies in dresses can be also boys

Yes, I had thought of that as well, but the smallest "girl" is too old to be Frederick and the second smallest is too old to be Louisa, who was only two and a half in 1751.

Daphoenyx 11-03-2011 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1332653)
But then it's strange: there should be three small princes (William, Henry and Frederick) and only two small princesses (Elizabeth and Louisa) plus Baby Caroline.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found this strange... Like you said, the Princess of Wales could be pregnant (I didn't notice the loose clothes, but in fact they are...), but there are still 9 children on the picture :bang::bang::bang:

Ok, let's list the children's names with their ages in 1751:
1. Augusta, 14;
2. George, 13;
3. Edward, 12;
4. Elizabeth, 10;
5. William Henry, 8;
6. Henry, 6;
7. Louisa, 2;
8. Frederick, 1;
9. Caroline Matilda, 0.

I can easily "locate" Augusta, in blue next to her mother, George and Edward, with the map, Elizabeth, with the flute, William Henry and Henry, sitting... But when it comes to the last three children I'm totally stuck...

Daphoenyx 11-03-2011 12:31 AM

Mmm I just noticed something, of the four children in dresses (we are still speculating if they are all girls or not ;)), only three have some sort of headgear (a cap or a flowery headband), the child in red at the bottom doesn't have any... Does it mean she's a he?

It also comes to my mind another portrait (it was done at least a century before) where a child (supposedly the heir of some dynasty, I can't remember) was with a dog, and they explained they made it like that to show that the child was brave and not afraid... Could it be this case too?

EDIT:
Still it doesn't make any sense if the child in red is Frederick, there is no way a 1-year-old would be sitting and playing with a dog, and still even if that was the case, there would be 2-years-old Louisa missing... Mmmm this is the worst of the puzzles http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...anghead6mx.gifhttp://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...anghead6mx.gifhttp://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...anghead6mx.gif

CyrilVladisla 01-06-2014 07:00 PM

Anne, the Princess Royal and Princess of Orange, was Prince Frederick's sister. Who was her favorite sister: Amelia, Caroline, Mary, or Louisa (Louise)?


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