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-   -   Most Children In Shortest Time (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f161/most-children-in-shortest-time-31546.html)

Meraude 03-27-2013 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire (Post 1532837)
Empress Leopoldina of Brazil had seven children between April 4, 1819, and December 2, 1825. Seven children in six years and a half. Died in December 1826 after a miscarriage at the age of 29.

Empress Teresa Cristina of Brazil had four children between February 23, 1845, and July 19, 1848. Four children in three years and a half.

Princess Leopoldina of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (neé Princess of Brazil) had four sons between May 19, 1866, and September 15, 1870. Four sons in four years and a half. Died in typhoid fever in February 1871 at the age of 23.

Princess Maria Elizabeth of Brazil had twelve children between June 6, 1938, and July 14, 1959. Twelve children in 21 years (the last pregnancy was with twins).

Several pregnancies in a short period of time can be dangerous to the life of the mother.

BrazilianEmpire 03-27-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meraude (Post 1532936)
Several pregnancies in a short period of time can be dangerous to the life of the mother.

In fact, Empress Leopoldina's miscarriage was due a fall from the stairs of the Imperial Palace.

And which's the relation between typhoid fever and pregnancy?

Lady Kathleen 03-27-2013 05:18 PM

Princess Maria Pia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (wife of Robert I, Duke of Parma) had twelve children in twelve years, and died in childbirth. Robert then then married Infanta Maria Antonia of Portugal and had twelve more children, including the future Empress Zita.

BrazilianEmpire 03-27-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Kathleen (Post 1532941)
Princess Maria Pia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (wife of Robert I, Duke of Parma) had twelve children in twelve years, and died in childbirth. Robert then then married Infanta Maria Antonia of Portugal and had twelve more children, including the future Empress Zita.

And Princess Maria Ana died at age of 96. Just like Princess Maria Elizabeth of Brazil, she also had twelve children and died at the age of 96.

Having a big number of pregnancies don't mean that a woman will die at childbirth.

Meraude 03-27-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire (Post 1532939)
And which's the relation between typhoid fever and pregnancy?

Many pregnancies in a short time weakens the body, and the stronger/healthier a person is, the better are their chances to survive an infection.
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire (Post 1532945)
And Princess Maria Ana died at age of 96. Just like Princess Maria Elizabeth of Brazil, she also had twelve children and died at the age of 96.

Having a big number of pregnancies don't mean that a woman will die at childbirth.

It all depends on how robust/healthy a woman was, if she suffered from other health issues too, even one pregnancy could be detrimental to her health. For a long time in human history pregnancy and childbirth have been a major cause of ill-health and death among women, regardless of their social status, and still is in some parts of the world.

Lady Kathleen 03-27-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire (Post 1532945)

And Princess Maria Ana died at age of 96. Just like Princess Maria Elizabeth of Brazil, she also had twelve children and died at the age of 96.

Having a big number of pregnancies don't mean that a woman will die at childbirth.

I didn't say it did.

BrazilianEmpire 03-27-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meraude (Post 1532947)
Many pregnancies in a short time weakens the body, and the stronger/healthier a person is, the better are their chances to survive an infection.

It all depends on how robust/healthy a woman was, if she suffered from other health issues too, even one pregnancy could be detrimental to her health. For a long time in human history pregnancy and childbirth have been a major cause of ill-health and death among women, regardless of their social status, and still is in some parts of the world.

Well, having lots of children in a short period of time was pretty common by that time.

Some women died at childbirth, others had a dozen of children and lived to be 80 or 90 years old.

And you're right. It all depends robust/healthy a woman is.

sarahedwards2 03-27-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Kathleen
Queen Victoria's granddaughter, Princess Margarete of Prussia, had four children in three years (two were twins). She had a second set of twins later on.

My brother's friend Amy has a twin sister, and their older brother and sister are also twins.

BrazilianEmpire 03-27-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 (Post 1532970)
My brother's friend Amy has a twin sister, and their older brother and sister are also twins.

Princess Maria Elizabeth of Brazil had twin daughters two months shy from her 45th birthday.

Princesses Maria Teresa and Maria Gabriela of Orleans-Braganza (neé Princesses of Brazil).

Mariel 03-27-2013 11:56 PM

My great grandma had 14 sons and no daughters. The last two were twins born at 52.
The Irish started late in those days. Every generation known to me had 10-14 children, but my grandma was very insistent that her 6 living children have few children, so there were only 3 of us in the next generation, out of the 6. And now I have no sibling, no cousin who is not incommunicado in Alaska, no niece, no nephew. On the other side of my family my aunts died of Porphyria and had no children. So you can have a big big big family and it can dwindle to nothing, just as GeorgeIII's family dwindled to only Queen Victoria and I think one other female heiress. I guess my relatives are somewhere out there, probably half the Irish in America. They dropped babies like going out for brunch.

sarahedwards2 03-28-2013 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariel
My great grandma had 14 sons and no daughters. The last two were twins born at 52.
The Irish started late in those days. Every generation known to me had 10-14 children, but my grandma was very insistent that her 6 living children have few children, so there were only 3 of us in the next generation, out of the 6. And now I have no sibling, no cousin who is not incommunicado in Alaska, no niece, no nephew. On the other side of my family my aunts died of Porphyria and had no children. So you can have a big big big family and it can dwindle to nothing, just as GeorgeIII's family dwindled to only Queen Victoria and I think one other female heiress. I guess my relatives are somewhere out there, probably half the Irish in America. They dropped babies like going out for brunch.

Wow, 52! That's how old my dad's maternal grandfather was when their last (and 11th) was born. My dad's paternal grandfather was 59 (yes, 59!) when my grandpa was born. He died when my grandpa was 21. My grandpa's mother was 46 when he was born, and he had one sister 4 years older. My maternal grandmother was 34, almost 35 when my mom was born (my maternal grandfather was 42) and 41 when my uncle was born (the baby of 6 kids.) My dad's parents were 35 when their youngest son of 5 children was born (only 1 was a girl), when my dad was almost 6. And my mom was 43 when my youngest brother was born; who's now 17. My parents are both turning 61 this year.

Iluvbertie 03-28-2013 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariel (Post 1533081)
My great grandma had 14 sons and no daughters. The last two were twins born at 52.
The Irish started late in those days. Every generation known to me had 10-14 children, but my grandma was very insistent that her 6 living children have few children, so there were only 3 of us in the next generation, out of the 6. And now I have no sibling, no cousin who is not incommunicado in Alaska, no niece, no nephew. On the other side of my family my aunts died of Porphyria and had no children. So you can have a big big big family and it can dwindle to nothing, just as GeorgeIII's family dwindled to only Queen Victoria and I think one other female heiress. I guess my relatives are somewhere out there, probably half the Irish in America. They dropped babies like going out for brunch.


George III had a number of legitimate descendents as a number of his younger sons had children about the same time as Victoria. The most senior of which is the Hanover line from George III's fifth son - The Duke of Cumberland through his son, George. The Duke of Cambridge also had a son, George and daughters Augusta and Mary Adelaide. This list doesn't include those that died without issue.

Queen Mary was the child of Mary Adelaide while Ernest of Hanover is a direct descendent of the Duke of Cumberland.

Ish 03-28-2013 02:51 AM

^^^ George III also had a number of illegitimate descendants: his third son, William IV, had 10 illegitimate children, the FitzClarences, and his sixth son had 2, the d'Estes. Victoria really just came to the throne through a series of bad luck; George III's first son's only child died, his second son had no children, and his third son had no legitimate children - Victoria the only child to the fourth son. The fifth and seventh sons also had legitimate children. In fact, when it comes down to it only 1 of George's surviving sons didn't have any children, although none of his 6 surviving daughters had any (only 3 of them married, as opposed to all 7 of his sons entering into some sort of marriage with at least one woman).

Countessmeout 03-28-2013 03:45 AM

Of his 13 children to reach adulthood, only 4 sons had legitamite chilldren, a fifth had kids from an invalid marriage. Of course, none of his daughters had kids, 3 didn't even marry.

George: had Charlotte
Edward: had Victoria

Ernst: had one son George. Three royal families can directly trace through him. Of course the main one would be EA, Princess Caroline's husband, the current Prince of Hannover. But The Greek and Spanish royal families as well. Sofia and Constantine's mother Frederica was born a princess of Hannover, and is the great-great granddaughter of George III's son Ernst.

Adolphus- his title and male line died out legitamitely with his only son George who never married. He had three illegitamite children, George who had three kids but no grandkids, Adolphus had one daughter who gave him grandchildren, and a third who never wed. But Adolphus had two daughters. Princess Augusta married the Duke of Mecklenberg-Strelitz, and her line continues through her daughters. Mary Adelaide, married the Duke of Tech and her daughter Mary was Queen of Great Britain. She also has descendents from two sons.

Augutus had two children from his invalid marriage, none from his valid. His son is one of the first reporter sufferers of MS, and never had children. His daughter wed, but she had no kids either.

BrazilianEmpire 03-28-2013 09:37 AM

My paternal grandfather was 33 when he married my grandmother, who was 24. He was 37 at the birth of their first child, my grandmother was 28. When the youngest child was born, he was 48, and she was 39. They had seven girls and one boy (my father, of course).

Seven of their children had children. I'm the youngest of twelve cousins.

Prince Pedro Henrique of Brazil was 28 when he married Princess Maria Elizabeth of Bavaria, who was 23. He was 29 when their first child, Prince Luiz, was born, and Princess Maria Elizabeth was 24. When their youngest daughters (twins) was born, he was 50 and she was 45.

Between them, their twelve children produced 29 grandchildren. Only Princes Luiz and Bertrand, and Princesses Isabel and Maria Gabriela are childless.

Mariel 03-28-2013 12:26 PM

Thanks for the information on the other legitimate descendants of George III. I knew there were many illegitimate descendants. Probably Edward had other children besides Victoria, but the knowledge of them was suppressed.

BrazilianEmpire 03-28-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariel (Post 1533233)
Thanks for the information on the other legitimate descendants of George III. I knew there were many illegitimate descendants. Probably Edward had other children besides Victoria, but the knowledge of them was suppressed.

I don't think the Duke of Kent had children with his mistress, none of King George III's sons were very discreet regarding their illegitimate children.

Countessmeout 03-28-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariel (Post 1533233)
Thanks for the information on the other legitimate descendants of George III. I knew there were many illegitimate descendants. Probably Edward had other children besides Victoria, but the knowledge of them was suppressed.


Edward has at least two children from before he married. A daughter Adelaide born in 1789, her mother died giving birth to her. And a son Edward, who married but had no kids.He had an 18 year relationship wit Thérèse-Bernardine Montgenet, who accompanied him until his marriage. There is no recognized children, but some families claim descendence from them.

Ish 03-28-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire (Post 1533240)

I don't think the Duke of Kent had children with his mistress, none of King George III's sons were very discreet regarding their illegitimate children.

It's said that he had two children by mistresses, actually.

1. Adelaide Victoria Auguste Dubus (1789-around 1832) by his mistress Adelaide Dubus
2. Edward Schenker Scheener (1789-1853) by his mistress Anne Gabrielle Alexadrine Moré

His longtime mistress was Madam de Saint-Laurent, also known as Julie de St Laurent or Therese-Bsrnadine Montgenet, and was with him from 1790 until 1818 when he got married. There is no evidence that they had children.

Information about Edward's illegitimate children is said to have been suppressed during the reign of Victoria, who didn't take kindly to illegitimacy. It could simply be that Edward didn't actually father these children and they're just an urban legend of sorts, or that he didn't acknowledge them in his life time. The children born to his brothers were born to long term mistresses - women that they would have likely married legally had they been allowed to. William IV was with Dorothea Jordan for 20 years, the Duke of Sussex married both his mistresses in contravention to the Royal Marriage Act. It makes sense that children born through these unions would have been acknowledged, while children born through more general liaisons with the Duke of Kent wouldn't have been.

Countessmeout 03-28-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ish (Post 1533245)
It's said that he had two children by mistresses, actually.

1. Adelaide Victoria Auguste Dubus (1789-around 1832) by his mistress Adelaide Dubus
2. Edward Schenker Scheener (1789-1853) by his mistress Anne Gabrielle Alexadrine Moré

His longtime mistress was Madam de Saint-Laurent, also known as Julie de St Laurent or Therese-Bsrnadine Montgenet, and was with him from 1790 until 1818 when he got married. There is no evidence that they had children.

Information about Edward's illegitimate children is said to have been suppressed during the reign of Victoria, who didn't take kindly to illegitimacy. It could simply be that Edward didn't actually father these children and they're just an urban legend of sorts, or that he didn't acknowledge them in his life time. The children born to his brothers were born to long term mistresses - women that they would have likely married legally had they been allowed to. William IV was with Dorothea Jordan for 20 years, the Duke of Sussex married both his mistresses in contravention to the Royal Marriage Act. It makes sense that children born through these unions would have been acknowledged, while children born through more general liaisons with the Duke of Kent wouldn't have been.

I am surprised, I don't think Victoria had any real issue with her Uncle's marriages or children born from them. The Duke of Sussex's second wife was created Duchess of Inverness in her own right. She had been unable to sit with the Duke at royal functions, due to her lower status, so Victoria has her raised to a Duchesss in her own right. If they had children, the title could have passed to them. So it seems at least the sake for her Uncle, Victoria could over look that. Her opinion on her father's children from other women may be a whole new issue.


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