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Cory 07-17-2011 11:25 AM

The Habsburgs of Hungary (past and present)
In order to avoid to speak about hungarian realities on the thread concerning the Restoration of Monarchy in austria I suppose we'd better speak here about all the involment of the Habsburgs in the past and present of Hungary.
Why Archduke George chose to live in Hungary?
Why Archduke George is not against hungarian nationalist movements and against the new Constitution?
How the hungarians look to archduke Georg?Do they consider him a possible King, a politician or just a famous person?

CSENYC 07-18-2011 06:53 PM

And why hasn't there been any pro-monarchy movement in Hungary in general? The monarchy was restored once before, after WWI. Is it because Hungary hasn't been ruled by its own royal family in so long-since before the Habsburgs?

Johann Salvator 07-18-2011 07:37 PM

True, the monarchy was restored in 1920, this is from Wikipedia: On 1 March 1920, the National Assembly of Hungary re-established the Kingdom of Hungary, but chose not to recall the deposed King Charles IV (Karoly IV of Hungary) from exile as the return of the Habsburg Emperor on the Hungarian throne was unacceptable to the Entente powers. Instead, with National Army officers controlling the parliament building, the assembly voted to install Horthy as head of state; he defeated Count Albert Apponyi by a vote of 131 to 7.

The Habsburgs are Hungary's Royals. There was a branch of Palatines of Hungary started by AD Joseph, but that family died out. Maybe AD Georg is somehow establishing a Hungarian Royal Family by living there. In a hypthetical restoration I doubt the Hungarian nobility will consider the Habsburgs as foreign.

Excellent idea Cory starting this new thread. I always had the idea that Hungary was less reluctant towards a constitutional monarchy than Austria, but I might be wrong. Last year I read 'Uncrowned Emperor' by Gordon Brook-Shepherd, excellent book by the way, and I got that idea of Hungary being more pro-Habsburg than Austria, but I know nothing about what's going on today.

Stefan 07-19-2011 02:57 AM

There are still male descendants of Archduke Joseph.
The present "Head" of this line is Archduke Joseph Arpapd, married to Princess Maria zu Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg.
They have 4 sons who are all married and have also sons.

Cory 07-19-2011 04:57 AM

Maybe the hungarians would try to use the name of the "Crown" only to have influence over the hungarians in the neighbouring countries.Serious thoughts of the Restoration of Habsburgs are not seen.

Lenora 07-19-2011 05:05 AM

Based on the information I've read Hungarian nobilty always had brilliant opportunuties regarding career and marriages(that it was even before they joined the Empire).I think that the first reason of their ascension was a common religion with other kingdoms,that was Catholicism.
More information here on a religious ceremony in Hungary:

Renata4711 07-19-2011 05:54 AM

Has anyone looked at the Wikipedia article with a fine toothcomb?
Hungary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cory 07-19-2011 06:27 AM

Many of the properties of the hungarian nobility were not giver back.

Only a part of the hungarian nobles are catholics, the rest are protestant (especially calvinist).

Dorka 07-19-2011 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1288810)
Maybe the hungarians would try to use the name of the "Crown" only to have influence over the hungarians in the neighbouring countries.Serious thoughts of the Restoration of Habsburgs are not seen.

No. I am convinced that the nationalist movement is far from being royalist. I think whenever they talk about 'neighbouring countries' they never mean a crowned head (let's not get in this topic, though).

I believe much of the popularity of the Monarchy as good old times comes from the fact that Austria-Hungary was a considerable power in Central Europe. At the same time these voices forget how oppressive the very Monarchy was towards minorities and the lower classes. Let's not forget how many times Hungarians or rather the Magyars (the two words definitely not meaning the same) revolted against Habsburg rule before the Compromise in 1867 and how many times they dethroned them...

Otto was regarded as some kind of representative of the good old days and later much loved for his own personality. When Georg started appearing in the media when he moved to Hungary, and revoked royalist feelings, I think it was because of the personality of his father and the nostalgia again (do not forget, it was a few years after the fall of the iron curtain). His wedding did cause some hysteria, as it put Hungary back in the royal map of Europe but I as far as I can remember people were looking for Prince Albert and Prince Felipe in the basilica during the ceremony ;)

In the past years he did not appear much and I believe it's kind over with the passing of Otto - very much like in Austria, a chapter in history closed.

Cory 07-19-2011 02:18 PM

Hungary seems to become less and less democratical, more and more nationalist and very far from the european values.
Archduke George 's attitude towars all this is rather represented by his silence.

Georg, left, and Karl von Habsburg, right, sons of Otto von Habsburg carry the urn containing his heart during the requiem in the Basilica of the Pannonhalma Abbey, in Pannonhalma, Hungary, Sunday, July 17, 2011. The oldest son of Austria-Hungary's l

Heart of last Austro-Hungarian heir buried - FRANCE 24

Kataryn 12-03-2012 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1288766)
There are still male descendants of Archduke Joseph the present "Head" of this line is Archduke Joseph Arpapd married to Princess Maria zu Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg. They have 4 sons who are all married and have also sons.

Non the less they are just a cadet branch of the Habsburgs while Georg is the younger brother of the Head of the family.

fortimo 12-03-2012 09:37 AM

The Habsburgs are here in Hungary not important people (anymore). I know who Archduke Georg is, because I am interested on royalty, but I think the most people here don't recognize him. I think the hungarian people saw the Habsburgs as foreign royals and not really accept them. When we should become a monarchy again, than I think the most people would choose an ancient Hungarian aristocrat-family... But the most of them live abroad, and I don't think that they would live here... :)

maria-olivia 12-03-2012 11:35 AM

I agree with you, Fortimo.
I visited in Budapest the historical Museum and was really impressed by Imre Nagy !
No-body knows ambitious Archduke Georg who seems not be happy to be the N° 2.
Do you have nowadays a lot of aristocrat families whose portraits I saw in your Museum?

fortimo 12-03-2012 02:49 PM

We had in the past very much aristocrats: barons, earls, dukes and from the history we know also the most important names of the hungarian nobility: Almássy, Battyhány, Bánffy, Esterházy, Festetics, Hunyady, Széchenyi, Zichy, Teleki etc. And I am sure, that this families have also todays descendants, but they are here in Hungary not well known. About a few we know what they do (for example the writer Péter Esterházy - Esterházy Péter - Wikipédia,, but the most are unknown.
They lost after the worldwar their properties, goods, and after a law it was not allowed to use their titles (1947/IV.: 1947. évi IV. törvény - Wikipédia, Google Fordító).
They couldn't study if it come out that they are from the nobility!!
It was very hard with them, the most families emigrated.
So I think here in Hungary don't live so much aristocrats...

maria-olivia 12-03-2012 04:53 PM

What a difficult situation your country had.
Fortimo your thread was very interesting it goes about a situation we can't believe in our countries.
I sincerely hope time is easier now and that the everyday life is comfortable . Kind regards from MO

fortimo 12-04-2012 02:39 AM

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, we had a "turbulent" history and often really difficult and hard past. But now is more easier and I hope for me, for my children and for my country, that our future will be more relaxed and predictable. Best regards..

claypoint2 01-25-2013 12:10 AM

Very interesting thread. Thank you, Fortimo. I join Maria Olivia's sentiments.

Biri 10-06-2013 07:23 AM

Count Maximilian von Habsburg (b.7 July 1974) [son of Archduke Geza of Austria (Palatine of Hungary line) (b.1940) by his first wife, Monica Decker (b.1939)] married Arabella Stafford Northcote (b.1975) [oldest of five children of Hugh Cecil Camden Stafford Northcote (b.1938) & his wife Hillary Jane, nee Evans]on 17 August.

Sources: Genealogical News 2013
Archduke Géza of Austria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Marengo 01-15-2014 09:18 AM

An interview with AD Eduard, eldest son of AD Michael and ADss Christiana:

Gast im Schloss: "Im Nachtkastl riechen" - Servus TV -

CyrilVladisla 02-12-2014 04:15 PM

In Hungary the Habsburgs created over 100 new titles of nobility between 1606 and 1657.
The present members of the Batthyany family bear the title of Graf/Grafin Batthyany von Nemet-Ujvar.

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