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Cory 07-16-2011 12:31 PM

Restoration of Monarchy in Austria
 
How do you see the possibility of a restoration of Monarchy in Austria?

lucien 07-16-2011 12:48 PM

:imperialaustria:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1287462)
How do you see the possibility of a restoration of Monarchy in Austria?



I don't at present,if at all.The late Archduke Otto ,as the outstanding human being he was,would have been a great Emperor by all means,I'm sure.Suppose he truly was the best Emperor they never had.

It was interesting to know,see,hear how the Austrian Top Brass had insisted in paying their respects to the son of the Last Emperor,historical sentiments or the notion the House of Habsburg was treated wrongly for decades.The Parliament's recent decision to abolish the anti humanitarian laws regarding the former House of Habsburg members to run for a political office in Austria,luckily just in time for Otto to witness before his demise.No,Habsburg and Austria are not ready yet,After decades of downplaying the role and meaning of the Monarchy,more and more Austrians have become aware of who they actually are.

But a move to change back to the Monarchy should be founded by the people,Archduke Karl,nor any other Habsburg alive,would ever move against the wish of its people as they abhor both dictatorial systems as well as autocratic ones,ultra right wing ones as well as communist ones,no,they,the Habsburgs or better Archduke Karl,would turn to the people for massive support first.

:habsburg::austria-hungary:

Cory 07-16-2011 02:36 PM

Explaining the role of a constitutional monarchy would be a very normal think even if there is still a little bit of sensitiveness concerning this issue in Austria.

Cory 07-17-2011 02:49 AM

How many important royalist Associations are now in Austria?

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 04:20 AM

I believe that Austria has to separate the notion of monarchy and of the former empire/s. Separate Austrian history only starts in 1918. So the Habsburgs should avoid being seen as a baroque anacronism, and work on a image of a bright future with a prestigious Austria as a constitutional monarchy. This does not mean denying the history of the grandest family in Europe, not at all. Imagine Vienna being a major cultural and diplomatic giant again!

The Habsburgs will always have a chance, always. Now they are finally able to fully integrate in Austrian society and they can prove themselves to be true Austrians at the service of their country. Imperial ambitions of the past should stay inside the history books and flirtations with political movements of unification with Hungary or any other country should be avoided at all costs. Remember that the empires of the past failed to achieve a reasonable amount of national unfication, and it was a constant struggle to achieve internal consensus. Today despite all the EU propaganda, Europe remains as diverse as ever, THANKS GOD! Standarization it works in America (maybe) but not in the glorious and beautiful Old World. If there is ever an empire again it will be far away in the future, Austria first.

Europe is immerse in the biggest crisis since 1945, and it is not only finances that worry me. There are threats to democracy in the East, intolerance toward foreigners and the different, apathy towards democracy, and more. But there is always hope, these very difficult times might bring Europeans back to their roots and I am convinced those roots are: Christianity, language (it does not have to be only one, nor for only one country) and monarchy.
After 1945 it seemed that there was never going to be a war among Europeans again, it seemed that poverty was out of Western Europe for good, and it also seemed that figures like the Pope, Kings and nobles were nice to keep for tourists.
After 1989, things got even better, nor more comunism, nor more wall, the EU was going to grow and grow and everybody was going to be wealthy, educated, tolerant and even multicultural (what a joke!).

So, I think there is big chance that the people of Europe will go back to a true European culture, meaning embracing again Chrsitianity and identifying themselves with a royal family that brings them the past and the present together. It's not going to happen next month, but it will happen. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying that the different (different skin colour, religion, language, etc..) should be kicked out NO. Europe needs to remain a beacon of freedom, respect of human rights and culture, so it needs to keep attracting people from all over the world, like its being doing from millenia. But this doesn't mean, that Europeans should forget what they are, so remain open, tolerant and generous but don't ignore your religion, your language, your history and your culture.

Finally, in a context of strong national/regional identites Europe can have a realistic integration project. I mean integration in the fields of economics, education, the arts, media, etc... But political? I believe is a mistake, and reality shows us that everyday. In this context the Habsburgs can play a key role along with other royal families by becoming the symbol of their nations again. It does not matter if those nations are big or small, what matters is that they are proud and dignified. Unfortunatley, that does not happen in Austria and many other European countries today.

Renata4711 07-17-2011 04:39 AM

Johann Salvator Do you envisage an Austria (or Austria plus?) consisting of several states?
The Belgian model springs to mind, but it's not exactly ideal....

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1287797)
How many important royalist Associations are now in Austria?

There is the Black-Yellow-Alliance (SGA). But I know very little about them

Kasumi 07-17-2011 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1287797)
How many important royalist Associations are now in Austria?

Try this site to know more.

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renata4711 (Post 1287831)
Johann Salvator Do you envisage an Austria (or Austria plus?) consisting of several states?
The Belgian model springs to mind, but it's not exactly ideal....

Austria is already a federal republic. I agree with you about the Belgian model, being hardly a model. I am not a nationalist, and I am open to the idea of new countries, but I don't like autonomies within countries that neither become independent nor support the country they are within (Flemish Region, Wallonia, Basque Country, Catalonia and more).

Call me crazy but I believe Archduke Karl should become King Karl of Austria, and forget the Empire. He can even be Karl II, to have a nice (although inaccurate) continuity with his grandfather. The empire can come later, if ever.

Renata4711 07-17-2011 05:16 AM

Johann Salvator:

I live in Scotland, and I'm a member of the SNP (Scottish National Party) which is trying to move from being a mere "jurisdiction" (along with the Welsh and the Northern Irish) and to become a sovereign state.
Obviously we're still in the UK, but mostly don't want to be.

Now this is the funny bit: in England we think of "the Queen" as QEII (of Great Britain), but NOT in Scotland where we go back in history and call her Queen Elizabeth the First of Scotland !! Perfectly legit.

Our First Minister is perfectly happy to have the Monarch, but at the same time we espouse independence.

What do you think of that ? And does it resemble your King Karl of Austria scenario?

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 05:44 AM

Thanks Renata, love your question but is a tough one LOL!
I studied in England for four years, and I must tell you Scotland was and is my favourite 'jurisdiction' of the UK.
What I know is that Mr. Salmon is slowly and firmly achieving victory after victory for the SNP, and that there is going to be a referendum on idependence before 2015. I also read somewhere that the idea is to keep Scotland within the Commonwealth realms, basically not to become a republic.
The Queen is the second of England, indeed, but the first of Scotland, Canada, Australia and should be the also the first of Great Britain, since that kingdom was created in 1701, so Elizabeth I was not of Great Britain and Ireland... Anyway, forgive my gibberish.

The scenario could become similar, a monarch that has to revive old titles like King of Scotland or England, because 'the union' disappears. So, a King of Austria could end up being King of Hungary a few years later too, why not?

Renata4711 07-17-2011 06:17 AM

Johann Salvator - Yes, I was there at the polling booths and the rallies, and the landslide victory. I still have the map of Scotland which had gone almost completely yellow !

You're right, there is little appetite for becoming a republic, except from some hotheads in one or two splinter parties. Equally, there is no wish to get rid of the Commonwealth links.
I wasn't actually aware that QEII was QEI of Canada and Oz also.....

Coming back to the thread topic :-) .... How real is the possibility of getting an Austria/Hungary monarchy, do you think ?
I was surprised how many groups turned out to attend the funeral.
I was also pleasantly surprised to be able to see the whole event on my PC !

Cory 07-17-2011 06:39 AM

If the habsburgs try to unify under the same Crown austria and Hungary again they will have strong opposition from manu countries.I agree the Habsburgs should try to fight for a constitutional Monarchy for Austria.

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renata4711 (Post 1287886)
...I wasn't actually aware that QEII was QEI of Canada and Oz also....

Yes, she is the Queen of 16 countries, with Governor Generals representing her.

About Austria, I think the chances of a restoration are insignificant. Like in most wealthy Western countries, people there are just apathetic towards politics. The hope lies in the fact that Austrians are not convinced republicans like the French.

What it could be more achievable is to get a social movement within Austrian society to revive the idea of a constitutional monarchy, as something real, possible and that can bring back a sense of purpose to the small country. Is not easy, the Habsburgs must play politics again, but nobody should notice it. Tricky.

In Hungary there are more chances and Archduke Georg is doing a brilliant job. Besides that I know very little about Hungary.

The funeral was splendid, but I see more as the funeral of a great man than as loyalty to the house of Habsburg. Austria needs more loyal Tyroleans :)

Cory 07-17-2011 07:02 AM

If the Habsburgs want to reign again they musnt't be involved in parties' polities directly but protect a royalist movement.If they are involved in politics they can't speak about a neutral role of a constitutional monarch.

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1287899)
If the habsburgs try to unify under the same Crown austria and Hungary again they will have strong opposition from manu countries.I agree the Habsburgs should try to fight for a constitutional Monarchy for Austria.

Absolutely, in many Eastern European countries (and a few Western ones) they keep teaching children that the old empire was a ruthless opressor and an inefficient administrator. When the truth is that the old empire was 'the golden era' of most of those countries, and by stubbornly opposing a recreation of the empire they got rewarded with communism. It will take time for people to get their history lessons right.

Cory 07-17-2011 07:13 AM

The nationalism of the hungarians who try to destroy the cultural identity of romanians, ruthenians and slovakians could not be defined as a "golden era"!

Renata4711 07-17-2011 07:14 AM

I have never been to Austria, but it strikes me as a society which treasures the past, but is also a modern federal state.

Am I right in thinking that Austria has had some bad press in the recent past, e.g. Haider, and the chap who kept his family prisoner etc. ?

If so, a modern constitutional monarchy could make an impact for good.

Why did you choose Johann Salvator as your namesake ? :-)

Cory 07-17-2011 07:15 AM

For Austria a restoration of Monarchy (under the system of a constitutional Monarchy) is the best solution.But the Habsburgs must avoid to speak about the "Kingdom of St.Steven" if they want not to create problems in Eastern Europe.

Johann Salvator 07-17-2011 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory (Post 1287922)
The nationalism of the hungarians who try to destroy the cultural identity of romanians, ruthenians and slovakians could not be defined as a "golden era"!

Those are the touching nationalistic issues that 21st century Habsburgs must avoid at all costs. In my opinion, to let Hungarians free rein on ruling the 'other half of the empire' was a mistake. Hungary treated its minorities very bad, they acted in a very imperialistic way and did not respect languages and traditions. They were and still are pretty much disliked. I am not denying Habsburg responsibility, but the way the Austrian part was ruled (Austria, Bohemia, some parts of Northern Italy and Southern Poland) was way better. This is a very difficult topic, but I am not going to stop saying what I believe:ohmy: Also the Hungarian half was a constant source of opposition to the empire and they kept what today is Hungary, Western Romania, Croatia, etc as backwards regions of the empire.
That being said, I still believe the Habsburgs helped liberate that part of Europe of Turkish rule and they brought the XIX century to those countries.
A restoration of the Crown Saint Stephen would be against people wishes, and that would be unacceptable.


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