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HRHofNothing 05-07-2011 11:03 PM

Daniel's Title
 
I had questions about Daniel's Duke of Vastergotland title. I believe that he does not hold the title in his own right he just has it because he is Victoria's husband right? Thus, say if Victoria and Daniel were to divorce and he to remarry his new wife would not be the Duchess of Vastergotland?

What happens in the case Victoria dies before she accedes the throne? As her widower would he still be styled HRH The Duke of Vastergotland? In this situation could a new wife become HRH The Duchess of Vastergotland?

What happens when if Victoria becomes Queen and he is not granted any other titles? Since The Duchess of Vastergotland title no longer exsists will he simply be Prince Daniel

MRSJ 05-07-2011 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRHofNothing
I had questions about Daniel's Duke of Vastergotland title. I believe that he does not hold the title in his own right he just has it because he is Victoria's husband right? Thus, say if Victoria and Daniel were to divorce and he to remarry his new wife would not be the Duchess of Vastergotland?

What happens in the case Victoria dies before she accedes the throne? As her widower would he still be styled HRH The Duke of Vastergotland? In this situation could a new wife become HRH The Duchess of Vastergotland?

What happens when if Victoria becomes Queen and he is not granted any other titles? Since The Duchess of Vastergotland title no longer exsists will he simply be Prince Daniel

Others might be able to answer better but my belief is if they were to divorce he would forfeit the title (since she is the Duchess and he is only Duke due to their marriage) or be given something less a la Alexandera in Denmark who is now a Countess (especially were his child to be future monoarch). Though I suppose he could keep it a la Sarah, Duchess of York.....if Sarah remarries she'd lose the DoY so thus probably would Daniel....

Were Victoria to die my guess he would still keep title (again especially if they've had children) not sure about future spouses....but my guess would be no he couldn't pass it to his (new) wife and would lose it if he remarried

Once she is Queen I believe he'll remain a Duke a la Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Endinburgh- even as Queen Victoria would still be Duchess of Vastergotland she would just use high title....

Again, these are guess based on other Royal families....not sure how Swedish Royal Family do it but good question

Iva 05-08-2011 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRHofNothing (Post 1249866)
I had questions about Daniel's Duke of Vastergotland title. I believe that he does not hold the title in his own right he just has it because he is Victoria's husband right? Thus, say if Victoria and Daniel were to divorce and he to remarry his new wife would not be the Duchess of Vastergotland?

Yes, he does not hold the title in his own right, but was granted to use his wife's title. If they divorce I think he'll lose it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRHofNothing (Post 1249866)
What happens in the case Victoria dies before she accedes the throne? As her widower would he still be styled HRH The Duke of Vastergotland? In this situation could a new wife become HRH The Duchess of Vastergotland?

Based on the case of Bertil and Lilian, where she's still styled HRH Princess Lilian, Duchess of Halland I think it would be the same for Daniel. I don't think his new wife could use the title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRHofNothing (Post 1249866)
What happens when if Victoria becomes Queen and he is not granted any other titles? Since The Duchess of Vastergotland title no longer exsists will he simply be Prince Daniel

No, he'll still be HRH Prince Daniel, Duke of Västergötland, nothing changes for him, if he's not given any more titles.

Charlotte_Aster 05-08-2011 06:19 AM

HRHofNothing- The Duchess of Vastergotland title stil exists it has only merged with the crown. In a way, Victoria would stillbe the Duchess of Vastergotland, but since she will be the Queen, it outranks any other titles.

An Ard Ri 05-08-2011 06:33 AM

A recent Divorce example is the Infanta Elena of Spain,Duchess of Lugo,the Dukedom was granted in Elena for life.

Her husband Don Jaime de Marichalar was styled His Excellency The Duke of Lugo during their marriage.When they divorced in 2009 Jaime de Marichalar was no longer permitted to use his former wife's ducal title, and the styles Grandee of Spain and Excellency and he is no longer considered to be an official member of the Spanish Royal Family.

As the son of a Spanish Count he is still styled Don Jaime de Marichalar .

DukeOfAster 05-08-2011 11:09 AM

Perfectly said MRSJ.

DukeOfAster 05-08-2011 11:15 AM

Is he a prince???
 
I was talking in another thread about the Duchess of Cambridge who is not a Princess she is HRH, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge so is Daniel HRH, Daniel, Duke of V. or is he HRH, Prince Daniel, Duke of V. I know it is probly different in Sweden then in England but I was just interested to know. Thanks

MRSJ 05-08-2011 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster
I was talking in another thread about the Duchess of Cambridge who is not a Princess she is HRH, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge so is Daniel HRH, Daniel, Duke of V. or is he HRH, Prince Daniel, Duke of V. I know it is probly different in Sweden then in England but I was just interested to know. Thanks

He is Prince Daniel Duke of V I believe. So either husband can take wides rank in Sweden or the King made him a prince....I thought on the official website he is listed as Prince Daniel bur maybe I'm wrong....

LadyFinn 05-08-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster (Post 1250034)
I was talking in another thread about the Duchess of Cambridge who is not a Princess she is HRH, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge so is Daniel HRH, Daniel, Duke of V. or is he HRH, Prince Daniel, Duke of V. I know it is probly different in Sweden then in England but I was just interested to know. Thanks

Daniel is
H.R.H. Prince Daniel;
Olof Daniel, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland.
H.R.H. Prince Daniel - Sveriges Kungahus

janb 05-10-2011 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRSJ (Post 1250043)
He is Prince Daniel Duke of V I believe. So either husband can take wides rank in Sweden or the King made him a prince....I thought on the official website he is listed as Prince Daniel bur maybe I'm wrong....

Yes, the King made him one. He wouldn't have become one under the older rules that was made when women couldn't inherit the throne. But I guess the reasoining is sound, if women can inherit the crown as well as men can, men must be able to get a title by marriage as well women do.

dilsnub 05-10-2011 05:17 AM

if your entire family was titled but your grandmother and mother both married untitled men what claim would you have if any to a title or to anything else?

Kataryn 05-12-2011 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFinn (Post 1250074)
Daniel is
H.R.H. Prince Daniel;
Olof Daniel, Prince of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland.
H.R.H. Prince Daniel - Sveriges Kungahus

I think it's important that his full name is now Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden and duke of Västergotland. He is the only one of the family on the Swedish edition of the Royal webpage who is name with a family name. So I think the "westling bernadotte" part is important.

Im not sure about Swedish family laws but normally one can decide between keeping the family name as it was decided on at marriage or returning to the former family name.

So probably Daniel could stay being Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden after a divorce just like Sarah Mountbatten-Windsor, Duchess of York kept Andrew's name but I doubt he would do it. He doesn't strike me as a man who would stick to a Royal name when he is not longer married to the Princess. IMHO he would revert to Mr. Daniel Westling.

In case of his becoming a widower I guess he would be granted his own title in case he wanted to remarry. Especiall if his child is the new Crown Prince/Princess while the current king is still alive.

I read they have a pre-nup, surely these questions have been decided before they signed the contract and became a married couple.

Kataryn 05-12-2011 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilsnub (Post 1250826)
if your entire family was titled but your grandmother and mother both married untitled men what claim would you have if any to a title or to anything else?

Depends on the country, I guess. Here in Germany, where the former titles are just part of the name, on marriage the couple could decide to keep the noble name of the wife but I read it is not considered good style. But it was done in order to transfer/save the noble name to the next male generation when no male heir was in the current generation.

dilsnub 05-12-2011 05:46 AM

I just know in royal bloodlines there are a lot of members excluded so much because they are not the son of the son of the son.... instead of simply being a member of the family. Being the great grandchild of a king would mean a lot if you were in the direct male line, you'd be someone, but if it were through your mothers mother than you would be as common as the wind.

Kataryn 05-12-2011 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilsnub (Post 1251965)
I just know in royal bloodlines there are a lot of members excluded so much because they are not the son of the son of the son.... instead of simply being a member of the family. Being the great grandchild of a king would mean a lot if you were in the direct male line, you'd be someone, but if it were through your mothers mother than you would be as common as the wind.

Depends on who the king's daughter and her daughter married. This is the reason why so many houses were (and some still are) such sticklers for "equal" marriages - the wanted to have a great enough supply of bridesgrooms for their daughters, not necessarily brides for their sons....

They chamged the system in the Netherlands, where all children of the queen's sisters are Prince/Princess of Oranje-Nassau and their daughters are Countesses of Oranje-Nassau.

dilsnub 05-12-2011 06:51 AM

In my own experience though some of them (us) are stuck at the bottom of the peerage. If somewhere down the line your relative didn't marry royal.... youre pretty much out.

Iva 05-12-2011 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1251949)
I think it's important that his full name is now Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Prince of Sweden and duke of Västergotland. He is the only one of the family on the Swedish edition of the Royal webpage who is name with a family name. So I think the "westling bernadotte" part is important.

It's actually a bit of mystery what his name/full name is. ;) He is officialy styled as HRH Prince Daniel of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland. The royal court talks about Olof Daniel, Pr of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland, the swedish version calls him Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Pr of Sweden, Duke of Västergötland. For legal purposes he is called Olof Daniel Bernadotte Westling, with Bernadotte being his middle name and keeping Westling as his last name. But after the wedding it was said that it would be the exact opposite, moving Westling to middle name spot and last name being Bernadotte. So...at least we know that he goes by Daniel. :rofl:

monica17 06-03-2011 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilsnub (Post 1251965)
I just know in royal bloodlines there are a lot of members excluded so much because they are not the son of the son of the son.... instead of simply being a member of the family. Being the great grandchild of a king would mean a lot if you were in the direct male line, you'd be someone, but if it were through your mothers mother than you would be as common as the wind.

Not in all cases. It also depends on whether the marriage of the female descendant was considered equal, at least for the older generations of royals.

monica17 06-03-2011 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilsnub (Post 1251981)
In my own experience though some of them (us) are stuck at the bottom of the peerage. If somewhere down the line your relative didn't marry royal.... youre pretty much out.

In the older generations yes. Because titles and birth (social status) were determined by equal rank and/or father's title(s) if any.

lilnana 06-03-2011 11:43 PM

The reason he didn't drop his surname (and just have his titles and first and middle name) is because there is law stating that a person is not allowed to drop there surname. The rest of the family doesn't have to have a surname is either the law wasn't in place at the time of their birth/wedding, or as wife/children of the king they were allowed circumvent the law. But rather then change his surname from Westling to Bernadotte they opted to make/treat his previous surname as another middle name with Bernadette as a the surname.


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