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-   -   The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy (2010-2019) (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f113/the-prince-andrew-and-jeffrey-epstein-controversy-2010-2019-a-30333.html)

Ista 11-19-2019 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyevale (Post 2268885)
Things will move VERY fast when the PoW returns - he won't brook this kind of disruption to the [previously] smooth 'handover' that we have all witnessed...

i'd expect a 'retirement' announcement PDQ..

We'll see.

I never underestimate the tendency of the BRF to hide their heads in the sand and count on the public's short attention span to permit them to do nothing and hope all the controversy goes away.

Empress Merel 11-19-2019 02:30 PM

The public might have forgotten if he hadn't done the interview. Now he's finally being put on blast.

Lumutqueen 11-19-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress Merel (Post 2268893)
The public might have forgotten if he hadn't done the interview. Now he's finally being put on blast.

THIS!!

Andrew is stupid, possibly one of THE most stupid people I have ever not met. I cannot fathom anyone agreeing that this interview was a good idea, when at the time he wasn't being featured prominently in any newspaper.

Claire 11-19-2019 03:08 PM

I feel there must have been something coming or something that we are not aware of happening that prompted the interview. Only thing that makes sense.

Zaira 11-19-2019 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress Merel (Post 2268893)
The public might have forgotten if he hadn't done the interview. Now he's finally being put on blast.

I believe I read that Virginia has done an interview with the BBC. IDK the timing of when that happened but it may be because of that.

Osipi 11-19-2019 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 2268840)
I am actually convinced that the friendship was more for money and influence for Sarah, then for the Duke. How many more of these friendship are there is this the tip of the iceberg?

It is a difficult situation as a monarchy they should retire him gently. But Andrew is there son and their brother - personally I would support him. I would tell him is an idiot but I would not abandon him. I don't think this is the worst thing to ever happen to the monarchy. I don't know how people judge these problems and place them in a ranking system to begin with. Yes - work and reputation building needs to happen and fast. He needs to go to the American and offer up everything he knows - everything. Even if he is not telling the truth, he should start telling it now. Meet with the women, unequivocally showing remorse and sincerity. He created a mountain when he could have shown character and strength here. Now he needs to show backbone.
I was told today that the only thing that will save him is if he remarries a rich English model/actress/ heiress - does anyone know anyone available. Everything in the monarchy is forgotten with a wedding or a funeral - I would prefer the first option. What I am getting at is the British are fickle and easily swayed by rumours and gossip. Tomorrow he will be the best Windsor again.

Last I heard, Ghislaine Maxwell is single and available. :hiding:

But seriously folks, what do we think would really happen if Andrew did an about face, turned on the sympathy and the charm and became an advocate for the victims of Epstein's perversions? I don't think people would buy it any more than they'd buy repackaged week old bread under another label. It would be deemed a "dog and pony" show lacking sincerity and done only for damage control to what is happening to Andrew at this time.

Perhaps the Queen and Charles will not have to do anything publicly to admonish Andrew. Its only been, what, three days since the interview and the list of people dropping Andrew like a hot potato is growing by leaps and bounds. He doesn't need a spanking by mummy or a slap upside the head from his brother as the actual people Andrew has been depending on to support his Pitch@Palace schemes are getting smaller and smaller and to lose a chancellorship at an university is very reminiscent of Bill Cosby being ousted in that regards. All of these repercussions put a black mark next to Andrew's name that states they cannot and do not accept Andrew as being someone to look up to, to admire and to emulate. This is what reputation suicide does to a person and there it is in indelible black ink that will never be erased.

The final straw that broke Andrew's camel's back would be to be ousted from the "Firm". It may be a needed decision made but not as a punishment from mummy or Charles, but because of the drastic loss of respect that Andrew is now bringing upon himself.

Andrew has lived up to the idiom "to thine self be true". He presented himself as he saw himself and has been found to be a lesser person character wise and because of that, has left no option but for the public opinion to feel disgusted with him.

IMO, even a criminal charge or talking to the FBI will not make a difference in how Andrew is perceived. No matter what he does, even curing cancer or entering the clergy, cannot and will not redeem this man in my eyes.

Claire 11-19-2019 03:12 PM

Question - how many of the royal ladies are patrons or presidents of women charities that deal with women abuse, trafficking, violence towards women?

Nico 11-19-2019 03:19 PM

...
Because, all the sordid details from this good ol sex scandal put aside, the real problem here is Andrew himself, his character and his ego.
The question for any member of the BRF is : are you useful or useless for the Crown ? The duke of York is now useless, worse, he's now dangerous, for the Crown.
Andrew must go. period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 2268907)
Question - how many of the royal ladies are patrons or presidents of women charities that deal with women abuse, trafficking, violence towards women?

It's a cause close to Camilla's heart ...

Muhler 11-19-2019 03:22 PM

I see there are a number of members here who believe Andrew should retire from active BRF-service, so to speak.

From a detached and objective viewpoint I ask: Why should he?

He has just in an interview denied he has done anything wrong, except maintaining a relationship with a person of... questionable character. Which he admits was a huge mistake.
So no reason to retire, is there?

He hasn't (so far) been prosecuted for anything, he has not even been charged with anything.
So any reason for retiring?

There are (hopefully) no photos of him with his arm up the skirt of a ten year old girl scout or something like that in circulation anywhere, - which would indeed be so serious that it would warrant an immediate retirement, also without a formal trial.
He may have had intercourse with a girl in her late teens a number of years back, but unless he asked for and saw her birth-certificate or there is proof he specifically asked for a teenager, he can claim plausible deniability.
That someone claims she had intercourse with him when she was seventeen, is at present just that, a claim.
At worst he would be caught lying, which would be bad enough, but reason enough for resigning?

Give an ill-advised interview is no crime.
Taking off his shoes during this interview and jamming both big-toes into the barrels of a shotgun, pulling the trigger, is no crime.
Being stupid is not a crime...
So no reason for resigning is there?

Being the center of a more or less self-inflicted sh*t-storm is no reason for resigning, is it? Otherwise the BRF would be pretty short of active members now...

So at the present stage, and from an ice-cold view, I see no reason why he should resign. On the contrary. Resigning would be a de facto admission of guilt in the eyes of the public.

So why shouldn't he just carry on, and wait for all this to blow over?

Claire 11-19-2019 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 2268908)
The duke of York is now useless, worse, he's now dangerous, for the Crown.

Yep that pretty much sums it up.

Osipi 11-19-2019 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler (Post 2268911)
So at the present stage, and from an ice-cold view, I see no reason why he should resign. On the contrary. Resigning would be a de facto admission of guilt in the eyes of the public.

So why shouldn't he just carry on, and wait for all this to blow over?

I don't think its going to blow over. He may not have to resign either. It may end up that he's left with nothing to do as those he represents and supports and patronizes withdraw themselves from associating with him. That list seems to be growing by the hour. Andrew, himself, having such a high opinion of himself will go on feeling he's entitled as a prince and can do no wrong. Sometimes the hardest person to be real with is the one person he meets in the bathroom mirror.

All I know is that, at this time, there is virtually nothing that could be done for damage control to Andrew's reputation. He may not have done anything "criminal" or "sleazy" or "perverted" but his character and reputation have gone the way of a dead goldfish swimming towards the ocean via a toilet.

irish_royalist 11-19-2019 03:40 PM

...

Also - the 'not being able to sweat' nonsense was pretty much discredited by a Professor of Endocrinology on BBC radio yesterday. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me - he more or less stated that while he was off fighting in the Royal Navy he suffered such a surge of Adrenaline that he was unable to sweat for a period of time. Utter balderdash. This phenomenon has never been described in the medical literature, so to even use this excuse in an interview smacks of 'I know better than everyone else, so I can tell them anything and they'll believe me'

sndral 11-19-2019 04:24 PM

I am reposting this link to an article written when the Andrew/Epstein debacle first surfaced, it highlights that the current controversy is just one of many questionable actions by Andrew.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011...-andrew-201108
Setting aside the undeniable sleaze factor, it seems Andrew has a pattern of misusing his position of power as a Prince of the U.K.. We can add to that misuse evidence of disdain in his behavior towards women and per current reports of his statements, racism. Each one could be individually denied, explained or excused, or somehow claimed to be overreactions to otherwise harmless events, but added together it’s too much.
If I were a charity I wouldn’t want him associated w/ my cause.

Muhler 11-19-2019 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi (Post 2268915)
I don't think its going to blow over. He may not have to resign either. It may end up that he's left with nothing to do as those he represents and supports and patronizes withdraw themselves from associating with him. That list seems to be growing by the hour. Andrew, himself, having such a high opinion of himself will go on feeling he's entitled as a prince and can do no wrong. Sometimes the hardest person to be real with is the one person he meets in the bathroom mirror.

All I know is that, at this time, there is virtually nothing that could be done for damage control to Andrew's reputation. He may not have done anything "criminal" or "sleazy" or "perverted" but his character and reputation have gone the way of a dead goldfish swimming towards the ocean via a toilet.

Being the Devil's Advocate again.

Yes, I've seen the list.
Apart from a couple of universities (universities for whatever reasons seem particularly sensitive to the public opinion these years) none of the protections seem pretty important to me.
And I'm not so sure that many will ditch him.
Why should they? If Andrew has worked for his protections, why should they ditch him, just because the public opinion is currently against him?
Because he is the subject of... a witch-hunt? Would it be a fair thing to do to their patron? Why should they join a sh*t-storm?
Wouldn't it be better to ask him to lay low and keep a discrete distance for a while?

Will anyone outside Britain and the Commonwealth, and royal fora like this, even remember this in five years?
And after all, Andrew may be right.
He may actually not recall this particular woman. - Bad memory. He meet so many different people, can't possibly remember them all. He was somewhat intoxicated, so can't remember people he may have met at some party and so on...
He finds it much easier to remember things he did with his daughters. Hardly surprising, eh?
He may actually suffer from a condition where he has problems perspiring. Whether that condition is physical or psychosomatic.

Andrew comes across, and maybe he indeed is (I don't know him) as arrogant, aloof, insensitive, having a high opinion of himself, self-centered, not too smart and difficult to like.
But if that should be reason to ditch a patron, a lot of royals would be in trouble!

As for being the admittedly currently least popular person in the BRF, with a shattered reputation, well only two weeks ago, a considerable number of people in Britain would happily sign a petition for resigning Meghan!
And before her Kate. And before her Harry. And before him Charles.

And as for damage control. All he can do now IMO is to lay low, and stick to his story and wait for the public to focus on someone else. He sure has not helped himself by this interview!
He will simply have to accept that for the time being he is the villain of the BRF. Someone has to be.
If he is obliging he can grow a hunchback. :biggrin:

ACO 11-19-2019 04:32 PM

...

Back to Andrew— he doesn’t have to retire but the fact so many of the organizations connected to him are clearly trying to remove their association says all you need to know. The list keeps growing. Eventually he will have to acknowledge it.

So something has to give. He can do it himself or he can have it done for him.

Osipi 11-19-2019 04:35 PM

With all the repercussions of sponsors withdrawing support for Pitch@Palace and the possibility of Andrew losing the Chancellorship at the University of Huddersfield, it gave me a thought that perhaps has not been overly discussed here as a possibility of Andrew's reputation suicide.

We know that Andrew has served in the military and even has been deemed a "war hero" as he, quite frankly, reminded us all of during his interview. Andrew also holds very honorable ranks still within the military along with patronages of military organizations. One thing I've come to believe is that the UK military, much like the US military holds its officers to a high standard of character.

My question now is. What are the chances of Andrew being labeled with "conduct unbecoming of an officer and a gentleman"? I've never been military and have no clue so asking as I imagine there are people here that would know. Would any of this fallout affect his honorary roles militarily wise? He most recently took center stage at the 2019 Trooping the Color as Colonel of the Grenadier Guards.

This is what I believe would hit Andrew like a ton of bricks. Would the military even consider this solely from Andrew's behavior in this Epstein matter or would Andrew have to be "convicted" of something first?

Curious minds ask questions. :biggrin:

Muhler 11-19-2019 04:40 PM

I can't imagine the military would subject Andrew to what would basically be a dishonorable discharge without it being based on something very solid, like a conviction or a personal admission of guilt.
Not least since Andrew is a member of the BRF.

Not sure how it works in Britain, but isn't it up to QEII to sanction Andrew (or alternatively allow the courts to sanction him) if he has done something wrong?
And isn't QEII the formal commander-in-chief? So ultimately it would be up to her to strip him of his military titles, I guess.

Osipi 11-19-2019 04:56 PM

I had forgotten about the Queen being the Commander in Chief of the military. To take any kind of action requested by the armed forces would really put HM between a rock and hard place. It would be a question of which to honor. Duty or family. Perhaps it would be best if there was something even more drastic before the military reaches the point of asking HM to decide.

I wouldn't wish this on any mother. Ever.

Somebody 11-19-2019 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire (Post 2268907)
Question - how many of the royal ladies are patrons or presidents of women charities that deal with women abuse, trafficking, violence towards women?

Within the royal family, the number one person could well be his own daughter: princess Eugenie with her work to end slavery with The Anti-Slavery Collective that she founded with her friend Julia de Boinville.

On the 'our team' page they even refer to an initiative (Key to Freedom) by the duke and duchess of York. I assume this is what Andrew referred to in his interview when he said he had been working on this issue, so he was aware what signals to look for (which he later somewhat contradicted by saying that of course he would not go into a friend's house looking for signs of such behavior).

ACO 11-19-2019 05:30 PM

Another university has walked away from Pitch@Palace. This one from Australia.

Fallout from Prince Andrew’s tell-all interview has gone global with Bond University on the Gold Coast cutting ties with one of the Duke’s charities. “In light of recent events, the university does not intend to seek any further involvement.”

https://twitter.com/sophie_walsh9/st...02675184586758


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