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-   -   The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy (2010-2019) (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f113/the-prince-andrew-and-jeffrey-epstein-controversy-2010-2019-a-30333.html)

Lilyflo 08-19-2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR76 (Post 2247036)
If members of the Royal family had to cut ties with everyone convicted of crimes professionally and privately they'd have to cut off thousands of people.

"Professionally" is completely different because the BRF carry out engagements at the request of the government or charities so the responsibility lies with those institutions.

"Privately" they might socialise with people convicted of crimes but it depends on the nature of the crime whether it would be acceptable to the British public. A registered sex offender would not be tolerated as a friend of the BRF. It's breathtaking that Prince Andrew assumed this was OK, that he could carry on socialising with post-conviction/prison Epstein while representing the Queen on official duties and acting as UK envoy for British business around the world.

ACO 08-19-2019 12:26 PM

Well more pictures are being dropped to the media. Now we have images of Esptein and Ghislaine Maxwell on the Sandringham Estate back in 2000. He was very appalled though.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ndringham.html

Not a good look at all.

tommy100 08-19-2019 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilyflo (Post 2247078)
"Professionally" is completely different because the BRF carry out engagements at the request of the government or charities so the responsibility lies with those institutions.

"Privately" they might socialise with people convicted of crimes but it depends on the nature of the crime whether it would be acceptable to the British public. A registered sex offender would not be tolerated as a friend of the BRF. It's breathtaking that Prince Andrew assumed this was OK, that he could carry on socialising with post-conviction/prison Epstein while representing the Queen on official duties and acting as UK envoy for British business around the world.

I think it would be acceptable for a member of the RF to be, privately, friends with someone who's committed a very minor, victimless crime/white collar crime. Epstein's crime was not victimless. The fact Andrew wanted to still be loyal to him makes me question his character.

The telegraph has a report on just that:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-saying-loyal/

The Duke of York insisted that he was “loyal to his friends” when he was told to dump Jeffrey Epstein in the wake of his conviction for sex offences, sources have claimed.

Prince Andrew accused a friend who warned him of the dangers of his association with the American financier of being a “puritan” and insisted that he would not abandon him like others had, it is said.


I would agree with this if it was a different type of crime, but for prostitution with under 18 year olds, I don't think finding that wrong is being puritan.

However the unusual decision to issue a statement led to questions over why he visited Epstein at his Manhattan mansion in 2010, two years after Epstein had admitted having sex with an underage girl and had allegedly been linked to the molestation of 36 others, some as young as 14.

A video of his stay in the New York property, dubbed the “House of Horrors” by some of Epstein’s victims, emerged over the weekend.

A Buckingham Palace spokesman said: “The Duke has said that this was an error of judgement.”


Really what he means is he will call it was an error in judgement now as he has been caught out.

The Duke had been warned that his friendship with the convicted paedophile had to come to an end but he had insisted that he would not abandon Epstein like everyone else had, sources told the Telegraph.

He quit his role as UK trade envoy in 2011 after the fallout from the Central Park photos.

In 2011 a friend of the Duke’s told Vanity Fair: “After Jeffrey was convicted, I phoned Andrew and told him: ‘You cannot have a relationship with Jeffrey. You can’t do these things.’ And he said, ‘Stop giving me a hard time. You’re such a puritan’.

“From there, our conversation descended into a screaming match, and finally Andrew said, ‘Leave me alone. Jeffrey’s my friend. Being loyal to your friends is a virtue. And I’m going to be loyal to him’.”

Erin9 08-19-2019 01:10 PM

^^

Generally, I’d consider loyalty to friends an admirable trait, but not in this case.

What Epstein plead guilty to was bad enough and more than enough reason to immediately distance himself from him, but Andrew knew- or should have known- that he was also getting off with the very least of what he was actually guilty of.

Ista 08-19-2019 01:17 PM

In this case, one has to consider if it was loyalty to Epstein as a friend, or was it reluctance to lose access to what Epstein provided for him, with a side serving of fear over what information Epstein had on him?

Thoughts to ponder.

Erin9 08-19-2019 01:23 PM

^^
Those are good points/questions.

I’ve wondered when exactly Fergie borrowed the money. All I’ve found is when it became public knowledge.

Madame Verseau 08-19-2019 01:34 PM

Jesus take the wheel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ges-claims/amp

The BRF is not going to be able to control this . Get. In. Front. Of. This. Mess, Ma'am.

ladongas 08-19-2019 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2247095)
Jesus take the wheel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ges-claims/amp

The BRF is not going to be able to control this . Get. In. Front. Of. This. Mess, Ma'am.

But...but... Epstein taught Andrew how to relax and wear sweatpants..

That picture of them walking in Central Park? They couldn’t have a real talk in Epstein’s mansion because everything that happened there was filmed and/or taped.

Time for Andrew to make a genuine and humble mea culpa speech. So sorry for his daughters, his ‘wife’, and the rest of his family.

Empress Merel 08-19-2019 02:38 PM

A genuine and humble speech will probably do the opposite. There's no coming back for this and he should hope that QEII lives until forever because Prince Charles is probably salivating at the thought of having a damn good reason to cut him from the working BRF.

ACO 08-19-2019 02:58 PM

I think it is becoming increasingly clear that all these photos and videos haven't just mysteriously popped up after all these years. They have always been locked away for safe keeping until an opportunity presented itself like this...

Or a real cynic might think whoever was, maybe, handsomely rewarded to keep said images away might feel it is no longer worth it. Either way it is clear this is just the beginning and if the BRF is not careful something might really be revealed that could cause serious damage to them.

Get ahead of it and I don't mean that like that pathetic statement.

tommy100 08-19-2019 03:16 PM

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The RF and Household will protect Andrew, up until the point the wider RF and HM get dragged into it. Then the decision may well be made (rather like in Spain) that letting Andy go down for it will save the rest of the RF and the Sovereign.

Lilyflo 08-19-2019 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2247095)
Jesus take the wheel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ges-claims/amp

The BRF is not going to be able to control this . Get. In. Front. Of. This. Mess, Ma'am.

That article in Vanity Fair was published in 2011. It's not news that an Epstein employee made a sworn testimony saying Prince Andrew "attended naked pool parties and was treated to massages by a harem of adolescent girls."

These stories will continue to resurface while the fallout from Epstein's latest arrest & death continues to be reported. Prince Andrew can expect a bumpy ride as all the previous knowledge is raked over & shared across the Internet. He might also expect worse if there is anything new to be uncovered & published.

sndral 08-19-2019 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau (Post 2247095)
Jesus take the wheel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...ges-claims/amp

The BRF is not going to be able to control this . Get. In. Front. Of. This. Mess, Ma'am.

I remember from articles a couple of years ago Epstein’s employee saying that Andrew had participated in the naked pool parties with under age girls and had massages, so this is not new news. If this employee was telling the truth, then there are more potential witnesses out there.
According to the article w/ the video of Andrew at Epstein’s front door post conviction, the lawyer for several of Epstein’s victims hired a private investigater to follow/investigate/document his activities for several years, this video is from that source, I assume there are more videos, although whether any include footage of Andrew is unknown. What is extremely troubling is that when the video was taken Epstein was a registered sex offender, yet we see the young girl with him in his NY apartment while Andrew is there. If your choice is to remain ‘loyal’ to your convicted sex offender friend, shouldn’t you draw the line at staying in his home with him while he’s also hosting under age looking females?
I’ve always wondered why Andrew never remarried, I’m beginning to think he never remarried because he enjoys his playboy lifestyle too much.
Andrew lost his trade envoy role for several reasons one of which was Epstein but it wasn’t the only reason https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-12663378
I was a bit shocked that after the unsavory details of Epstein emerged and the obvious PR issues with Andrew appearing to enjoy the company of very young women, the replacement role they found for Andrew was ‘Pitch at the palace’ where Andrew brings together young people and powerful/moneyed rich people -it seemed tone deaf to me, wouldn’t it have been better to find something else?

alvinking 08-19-2019 04:14 PM

Given the current climate and the storm that seems to be brewing, maybe just maybe Princess Eugenie's podcast about sexual slavery does not seem to be such a good idea

Lilyflo 08-19-2019 05:35 PM

Prince Andrew urged to tell all he knows about Jeffrey Epstein
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

Prince Andrew should give sworn testimony on “everything he knows” about his friend Jeffrey Epstein after saying he was appalled by the disgraced financier’s sex crimes, lawyers for some of Epstein’s victims have said.
(...)
“I look forward to coordinating a formal deposition where he will be given the opportunity to tell us everything he knows,” Brad Edwards, a lawyer for Giuffre, told the Guardian on Monday. “We would like to do this as soon as possible, at his convenience, and again we are very appreciative of his willingness to help.”
(...)
Edwards said on Monday that Andrew’s latest remarks “give the impression that he will do his part to ensure the victims of Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes are able to get answers and justice”. He added: “I would like to personally help him provide these victims his assistance.”

Ista 08-19-2019 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilyflo (Post 2247195)
Prince Andrew urged to tell all he knows about Jeffrey Epstein
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

Prince Andrew should give sworn testimony on “everything he knows” about his friend Jeffrey Epstein after saying he was appalled by the disgraced financier’s sex crimes, lawyers for some of Epstein’s victims have said.
(...)
“I look forward to coordinating a formal deposition where he will be given the opportunity to tell us everything he knows,” Brad Edwards, a lawyer for Giuffre, told the Guardian on Monday. “We would like to do this as soon as possible, at his convenience, and again we are very appreciative of his willingness to help.”
(...)
Edwards said on Monday that Andrew’s latest remarks “give the impression that he will do his part to ensure the victims of Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes are able to get answers and justice”. He added: “I would like to personally help him provide these victims his assistance.”

I am not holding my breath, but it's a nice tactic from Brad Edwards. I'm sure he has no expectation that Andrew will suddenly be helpful, but it highlights the ridiculousness of BP's statement.

tommy100 08-19-2019 08:00 PM

The DM isn't letting it go, some actual half decent investigative journalism going on

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...locations.html

Pressure was mounting on Prince Andrew last night to answer questions about his paedophile friend Jeffrey Epstein.

Young victims of Epstein begged the Duke of York to help them get justice as the prince was offered the opportunity to give sworn testimony on 'everything he knows'.

After the duke declared himself 'appalled' at reports of the US financier's sex abuse of teenage girls, he was offered the chance to stand by his word and help their cases.

Today it can be revealed that flight logs, obtained by the Daily Mail, show that one of Epstein's victims, 'sex-slave' Virginia Roberts, was flown to London, New York and the Caribbean in 2001.

She has claimed that as a 17-year-old she met the duke in all three places and, in each case, research by the Mail suggests the duke was in the same vicinity at the same time.

Lilyflo 08-19-2019 08:36 PM

For anyone wondering about dates of events and how often Prince Andrew socialised with Epstein, the Daily Mail has published a timeline.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-Epstein.html

COUNTESS 08-19-2019 09:11 PM

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Andrew has made some lame excuses and I'm sure he thought this would go away some time ago. But for him and others, alas not. It is foolish to think this was just a friendship or a business acquaintance. The BRF has had it problems before, but it is not being investigated in Britain and they have no control. Actually, what may be revealed, if anything from this side of the world, Andrew means nothing.

Moonmaiden23 08-19-2019 11:31 PM

During his youthful Randy Andy years I remember reading that despite his movie star looks, Royal status and first rate education, HRH was dumber than a box of hammers.

I put it all down to spiteful gossip.

And now this...how could a middle aged man who is also the father of DAUGHTERS...young women he obviously dotes on...put himself in company like Epstein's if not for arrogance and idiocy on a grand scale??

The reason for his apparently unbreakable bond with Sarah becomes clearer by the day. Only a woman who got caught red handed trying to collect cash for access to her former husband can truly appreciate the depths he has sunk to now.:sad:


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