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Roberta 01-23-2011 09:19 PM

Sophie of Wurttenberg - Names of Her Ladies in Waiting?
 
My great grandmother was reputedly a Lady in Waiting to Sophie of Wurttenberg sometime between 1870 and 1877. Is there a source available in which the names of her ladies in waiting might be listed? My great grandmother was French but in time married a Prussian, took the married name Schieck, and moved to Germany. In 1885, she and her children immigrated to the United States. There names were Paul(e) Schieck (F 1853), Joseph (M 1885), Marga (F 1882), Paula (F 1880), Ottelie (F 1880), Marie Teresa (F 1877). Any leads you might have for me would be most appreciated.

lucien 01-24-2011 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roberta (Post 1196693)
My great grandmother was reputedly a Lady in Waiting to Sophie of Wurttenberg sometime between 1870 and 1877. Is there a source available in which the names of her ladies in waiting might be listed? My great grandmother was French but in time married a Prussian, took the married name Schieck, and moved to Germany. In 1885, she and her children immigrated to the United States. There names were Paul(e) Schieck (F 1853), Joseph (M 1885), Marga (F 1882), Paula (F 1880), Ottelie (F 1880), Marie Teresa (F 1877). Any leads you might have for me would be most appreciated.

You have to do better then this.Best way is to find a good geneology site and look under your great grandmothers maiden name and then go from there.There are so many with a claim to this that and another thing,n'importe pas,we really couldn't go into.
There isn't all that much known of the Ladies in Waiting of Queen Sophie either.

Kataryn 01-24-2011 02:14 AM

There's a book with edited letters from Queen Sophie to Lady Malet, maybe you find a hint in there:

Sophie of Württemberg. A Stranger in The Hague: The Letters of Queen Sophie of the Netherlands to Lady Malet, 1842-1877. S.W. Jackson and Hella Haasse (eds.). Duke University Press. 1989.

lucien 01-24-2011 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1196757)
There's a book with edited letters from Queen Sophie to Lady Malet, maybe you find a hint in there:

Sophie of Württemberg. A Stranger in The Hague: The Letters of Queen Sophie of the Netherlands to Lady Malet, 1842-1877. S.W. Jackson and Hella Haasse (eds.). Duke University Press. 1989.

Yes I know,Lady Malet was the wife of the British Ambassador and an equal blabbermouth as the Queen,
but not a Lady in Waiting to Queen Sophie.:smile:

Kataryn 01-24-2011 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 1196760)
Yes I know,Lady Malet was the wife of the British Ambassador and an equal blabbermouth as the Queen,
but not a Lady in Waiting to Queen Sophie.:smile:

There is a very old and noble German family "von Schieck" which have roots in Saxony, Baden and Wuerttemberg. As queen Sophie spent a lot of her time not in the Netherlands, but at home in Stuttgart, it could well be that a Frau von Schieck served as her lady-in-waiting and is mentioned in these letters.

lucien 02-07-2011 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1196833)
There is a very old and noble German family "von Schieck" which have roots in Saxony, Baden and Wuerttemberg. As queen Sophie spent a lot of her time not in the Netherlands, but at home in Stuttgart, it could well be that a Frau von Schieck served as her lady-in-waiting and is mentioned in these letters.

Ladies-in-Waiting were appointed in & lived in The Netherlands.At home was The Hague.A mere Frau von this or that would not have been elevated to the ranks of Ladies-in-Waiting at Court.With all due respect,but she must have been of the lower aristocracy,if any.

Kataryn 02-07-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 1202139)
Ladies-in-Waiting were appointed in & lived in The Netherlands.At home was The Hague.A mere Frau von this or that would not have been elevated to the ranks of Ladies-in-Waiting at Court.With all due respect,but she must have been of the lower aristocracy,if any.

Okay, several German sources about Sophie of Würrtemberg, queen of The Netherlands, say that because of the unhappiness of her marriage the queen spend a lot of her time with her parents and siblings in Stuttgart. Which was not so uncommon, just think of empress Elisabeth of Austria, who spend long months away from Vienna. Elisabeth, too, had a lady-in-waiting which was only of the lower aristocracy (Ida von Ferenczy) but was very close to her.

From a new biography, published in 2010:
In 1855 Sophie spend the whole summer and autumn in Stuttgart and on the estates of her family in Wuerttemberg. Meanwhile her father and husband worked out a contract which granted the queen, for whom divorce obviously was not an option, a judicial seperation from her husband. The contract was signed on 25. december 1955 by queen Sophie, Prince Frederick of Orange, the then minister of justice Donker Curtius and the private secretaries of king and queen. The contract stated that king and queen had to turn up together for official events but had seperate rooms at the palace of The Hague and in summer, when Sophie was in residence in Huis ten Bosch, the king did not come there but left her alone.

Each year she spent months in spring and autumn in Stuttgart, staying with her father and step-mother at the Neue Schloß (New Palace) where she was allowed to hold court as she liked.

All information about her is from the new biography by historian Sabine Thomson: "Goldene Bräute" (Golden Brides - Princesses of Wuerttemberg on European thrones), Silberburg Verlag, Tübingen, 2010.

The author writes that Sophie in the beginning had two ladies-in-waiting, Miss "von Pabst" and Miss "von Stirum", the first one she kept on after becoming queen and Miss von Pabst travelled with her a lot in her later years.

lucien 02-08-2011 03:32 AM

I am aware of her history,an unhappy life,partially inflickted upon her by herself.A highly intellectual but also highly manipulative concocting woman making it all to clear to her husband from the very beginning that she was superior to him in the grey cells area,and emphasizing that over and over.Not very wise when your counterpart is a very touchy and rather direct man as King Willem III was,to say the very least.

She might have the ladies you mention,the Limburg Stirum Lady was one with another connection.Mattie van Limburg Stirum was refused by King Willem III as a bride for his son the Crown Prince Willem,or Wiwill as he was called in the family,as it was rumored she might be the King's offspring out of wedlock...This refusal set about the moving to Paris of the Prince and refusal to return and to have any contact with his father.He didn't die well there and passed over in 1879.

I know the contract,and they lived seperately "happily after that" ,except for the constant whining of Sophie who elevated that to an artform on itself,as you can see in her correspondence with Lady Mallet fe.If there wasn't anything to nag about,she'd invent something,and when you do that long enough you're up believing it all yourself.Yes,she spend a lot of time in Württemberg in summer,but,she could go anywhere she wanted but still she had herself with her all the time,and you can't run from yourself.Over doing it over the top with her care of son Alexander,poor man,he was totally bezirk about his mother as a result and turned away from his father as the latter didn't think him to be much of a man he should be,a whimp.He wasn't,but was a desperately lonely fellow.After his mother died,he was overcome with grief and visited the Royal Family's cript at Delft over and over weaping over his mother's coffin.A drama avant le lettre.Tragic,all lives involved in the Royal Family at that time were rather tragic.

Marc23 02-24-2011 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataryn (Post 1202202)
The author writes that Sophie in the beginning had two ladies-in-waiting, Miss "von Pabst" and Miss "von Stirum", the first one she kept on after becoming queen and Miss von Pabst travelled with her a lot in her later years.

There is also a family in Netherlands "van Pabst"...they descended from the family of Edler von Pabst who originated from Dusseldorf area...


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