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Freedom 09-05-2005 09:32 PM

Democratically Elected Prince
 
Has anyone heard of Seborga, where the prince is democratically elected? http://seborga.net/help/index.html

oskana 09-05-2005 11:20 PM

hmmmm.....never heard of it but its an interesting idea

Warren 09-06-2005 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskana
hmmmm.....never heard of it but its an interesting idea

I think the relevant point from the article is that the Bendictine Abbott "conferred the title of prince upon himself" after buying the land from a Count.

And that bit about "constitutional experts" claiming that it cannot be considered part of the Italian Republic is a nonsense. Whatever happened with the demise of the Holy Roman Empire, or at the Congress of Vienna, has no relevance to the formation of the Kingdom of Italy in 1861.

A "principality" for gullible tourists and stamp collectors?
.

Freedom 09-06-2005 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren
I think the relevant point from the article is that the Bendictine Abbott "conferred the title of prince upon himself" after buying the land from a Count.

And that bit about "constitutional experts" claiming that it cannot be considered part of the Italian Republic is a nonsense. Whatever happened with the demise of the Holy Roman Empire, or at the Congress of Vienna, has no relevance to the formation of the Kingdom of Italy in 1861.

A "principality" for gullible tourists and stamp collectors?
.



Interesting Warren. Thanks for responding.

kwanfan 06-04-2007 10:44 PM

Elected monarchs throughout history
 
I thought it would be interesting to look at some situations through history where a monarch has been elected.
King George I of Greece-Born a Danish Prince-Elected King of Greece at age 17.

Prince Alexander I of Bulgaria was elected in 1879.

Prince William of Albania was elected in 1914.

Carol I of Romania was elected in 1866.

King Haakon VII of Norway was elected in 1905.
These were some that I found on wikipedia. Are there any others?
It's interesting to me that 4 of the 5 monarchies that had elected monarchs are now overthrown. Do you think that countries are more willing to overthrow an elected monarch or royal family that started with an elected monarch?

Lady Jennifer 06-04-2007 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwanfan
Do you think that countries are more willing to overthrow an elected monarch or royal family that started with an elected monarch?

I think in a way they are. There isn't that much invested in them (well some of them) at that point. I think the governments were already unstable when those monarchs were voted in...why else would they have changed their governments.

Toledo 06-04-2007 11:17 PM

Agustin de Iturbide was elected Emperor when the Spanish Borbons refused the offer of the Mexican throne. Mexico had also it's own titled nobility created by Spain*
3 Dukes
45 Marquesses
42 Counts
3 Viscounts
1 Baron
3 Señor(es) (Lord)

*from what I read in Almanach de Bruxelles


three-years old King Magnus of Norway is elected King of Sweden too


Lunalilo I, elected King of Hawaii — born as William Charles Lunalilo


After the Přemyslide line became extinct (1306), John of Luxemburg was elected king of Bohemia in 1310.


Charles VII (1697-1745), Elector of Bavaria, was elected King of Bohemia 7 Dec 1741

Lady Jennifer, thanks for the help with the post assembly ;) :flowers:

norwegianne 06-05-2007 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo

As with tradition in Norway at the time, he also had to be "elected" by the Norwegians to a certain extent - ie. he had to journey around to the legal "tings" and be acknowledged by the people as their leader.

Given that his father was the brother of King Birger of Sweden, it is perhaps not so unnatural that he was elected - the unnatural thing is his age.

Of course, he didn't get to reign over either Sweden or Norway until he was 15.

norwegianne 06-05-2007 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwanfan
I thought it would be interesting to look at some situations through history where a monarch has been elected.
King George I of Greece-Born a Danish Prince-Elected King of Greece at age 17.

Prince Alexander I of Bulgaria was elected in 1879.

Prince William of Albania was elected in 1914.

Carol I of Romania was elected in 1866.

King Haakon VII of Norway was elected in 1905.
These were some that I found on wikipedia. Are there any others?
It's interesting to me that 4 of the 5 monarchies that had elected monarchs are now overthrown. Do you think that countries are more willing to overthrow an elected monarch or royal family that started with an elected monarch?

The situation in Greece was so uncertain when George was elected, that his father insisted that his descendants also carry the surplus title :prince/ss of Denmark. When King Haakon was elected to be king of Norway a generation later - no such surplus title followed his descendants. A difference in the political situation? But maybe also a difference in the political climate in different corners of Europe?

ysbel 06-05-2007 05:38 AM

The Danish monarchy had elected kings until 1660.

Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article.

The Danish royal family is one of the oldest reigning dynasties in the world, second only to that of the Japanese emperors.
The house of Oldenburg held the Danish Crown between 1448 and 1863, when it passed to the house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, a cadet branch of Oldenburg (itself a cadet branch of the dynasty ruling prior to 1448). The kingdom had been elective (although the eldest son or brother of the previous king was usually elected) until 1660, when it became hereditary and absolutist. Until 1864 Denmark was also united in a personal union with the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein.

RhapsodyBrat 06-05-2007 05:43 AM

the monarchs of Malaysia would fit in here. every five years the sultans gather to elect a new king, with the latest one the 13th Yang di Pertuan) taking to the throne just recently.

Marengo 06-05-2007 05:44 AM

Wasn't Catherine de Medici's 3rd and favourite son elected King of Poland?
He later became King of France due to the deaths of his elder brothers.

BeatrixFan 06-05-2007 10:48 AM

Pope Benedict XVI is an absolute monarch who has been elected, the same as every Pope before him. The Kings of Cambodia are chosen by an elective council, there's also Malaysia and of course the Maori monarch.

Henri M. 06-05-2007 11:36 AM

Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte: a French marshal elected Crown Prince
 
In 1810 Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte, Maréchal de France, was unexpectedly elected heir to King Carl XIII of Sweden, partly because a large part of the Swedish Army, in view of future complications with Russia, were in favour of electing a soldier, and partly because Bernadotte was very popular in Sweden, owing to the kindness he had shown to the Swedish prisoners during the late war with Denmark.

The matter was decided by one of the Swedish courtiers, Baron Karl Otto Mörner, who, entirely on his own initiative, offered the succession to the Swedish crown to Bernadotte. The marshal communicated Mörner's offer to Napoleon, who treated the whole affair as an absurdity.

Bernadotte thereupon informed Mörner that he would not refuse the honour if he were duly elected. Although the Swedish Government, amazed at Baron Mörner's effrontery, at once placed him under arrest on his return to Sweden, the candidature of Bernadotte gradually gained favour there, and in 1810, he was elected Crown Prince. Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte adapted his name to Carl Johan.

The new Crown Prince was very soon the most popular and the most powerful man in Sweden. In 1818 Prince Carl Johan succeeded the King as the new King of Sweden and Norway.

Following only the male lines of the thrones of Sweden, Carl Johan, once a French marshal, is the male-line ancestor to the heirs of the present throne of Sweden:

Carl XIV Johan, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Desideria (Désirée Clary)

Oskar I, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Josefina (Joséphine de Beauharnais, Princess of Leuchtenberg)

Carl XV, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Lovisa (Louise Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau)

Oskar II, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Sofia (Sofia Princess of Nassau)

Gustaf V, King of Sweden x Queen Victoria (Viktoria Princess of Baden)

Gustaf VI, Adolf King of Sweden x Queen Margaretha (Princess Margaret of Connaught)

Gustaf Adolf, Prince of Sweden x Princess Sibylla (Sibylla Princess of Saxen-Coburg and Gotha)

Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden x Queen Silvia (Silvia Sommerlath)

Victoria, Crown Princess of Sweden

norwegianne 06-05-2007 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henri M.
Following only the male lines of the thrones of Sweden, Carl Johan, once a French marshal, is the male-line ancestor to the heirs of the present throne of Sweden:

Carl XIV Johan, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Desideria (Désirée Clary)

Oskar I, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Josefina (Joséphine de Beauharnais, Princess of Leuchtenberg)

Carl XV, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Lovisa (Louise Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau)

Oskar II, King of Sweden and Norway x Queen Sofia (Sofia Princess of Nassau)

Gustaf V, King of Sweden x Queen Victoria (Viktoria Princess of Baden)

Gustaf VI, Adolf King of Sweden x Queen Margaretha (Princess Margaret of Connaught)

Gustaf Adolf, Prince of Sweden x Princess Sibylla (Sibylla Princess of Saxen-Coburg and Gotha)

Carl XVI Gustaf, King of Sweden x Queen Silvia (Silvia Sommerlath)

Victoria, Crown Princess of Sweden

Excellent, Henri M. :flowers: One note, though. Margaretha died before becoming queen, so her title was Crown Princess Margaretha. Gustaf VI Adolf's queen was Queen Louise (née Louise Mountbatten/Battenberg).

zarat 06-08-2007 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo
Wasn't Catherine de Medici's 3rd and favourite son elected King of Poland?
He later became King of France due to the deaths of his elder brothers.

Yes, you are right Marengo. But he choose to left Poland in order to become the King of France.


Henry III of France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

magnik 06-08-2007 05:36 PM

Yes, but we in POLAND had few elected kings. From Grand Duke Władysław Jagiełło's (he was a husband of the Polish King Jadwiga later known as Saint Jadwiga the Queen) election to 1573 we had principle elections of the Jagiellon Dynasty. After Władysław II we had 6 kings from this family: Władysław III of Varna, Kazimierz IV (husband of Elisabeth of Austria known as Mother of the Kings), Jan I, Alexander, Zygmunt I the Old, Zygmunt II August (husband of Elisabeth of Austria, Barbara Radziwiłł and Catherine of Austria).
List of Polish monarchs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After extint of Jagiellon's since 1573 we had 13 elected kings.

Free election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Furienna 06-08-2007 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne
Excellent, Henri M. :flowers: One note, though. Margaretha died before becoming queen, so her title was Crown Princess Margaretha. Gustaf VI Adolf's queen was Queen Louise (née Louise Mountbatten/Battenberg).

True, even though I actually didn't notice it. But Margareth was the one, who brought new heirs into the royal family, not Louise.

I didn't think about Jean Baptiste Bernadotte, when I opened this thread. Maybe because I consider him more "chosen" to be a king than "elected".



ysbel 06-09-2007 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna

True, even though I actually didn't notice it. But Margareth was the one, who brought new heirs into the royal family, not Louise.

I didn't think about Jean Baptiste Bernadotte, when I opened this thread. Maybe because I consider him more "chosen" to be a king than "elected".




Unless they were voted in by an electorate of 'one' - Napoleon! :rolleyes:

Marengo 06-13-2007 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnik
Yes, but we in POLAND had few elected kings. From Grand Duke Władysław Jagiełło's (he was a husband of the Polish King Jadwiga later known as Saint Jadwiga the Queen) election to 1573 we had principle elections of the Jagiellon Dynasty. After Władysław II we had 6 kings from this family: Władysław III of Varna, Kazimierz IV (husband of Elisabeth of Austria known as Mother of the Kings), Jan I, Alexander, Zygmunt I the Old, Zygmunt II August (husband of Elisabeth of Austria, Barbara Radziwiłł and Catherine of Austria).
List of Polish monarchs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After extint of Jagiellon's since 1573 we had 13 elected kings.

Free election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weren't all Polish Kings elected by the Polish nobility (and usually from the Polish nobility too)? Of course some might have been elected due to severe pressure put on the nobles (Catherine the Great's lover for example).


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