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-   -   Queen Maxima of The Netherlands (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f96/queen-maxima-of-the-netherlands-28380.html)

Shikha Pal 08-10-2010 12:30 AM

Queen Maxima of The Netherlands
 
Hi there

As much as I know CP Maxima of the Netherlands is an Argentine with Italian origin.

According to my knowledge a lot of Americans (North, South and Central) are mixed races.

So I am Interested in knowing where are Crown Princess Maxima"s ancestors from other than Italy ?

claypoint2 09-17-2010 03:34 PM

Maxima's maiden name is Zorreguieta, which suggests a Basque origin. That part of her family (patrilineal descent) is probably from the Basque country, which is located in northern Spain and southern France. It's her mother's father's side of the family (i.e., Maxima's maternal grandfather) that is Italian; Cerruti is their family name.

Regarding race: While it is true that there is a great deal of racial intermingling throughout the Americas, it does not mean that you can assume that someone has a multi-racial background just because he or she hails from the American continents. For example, there is very little racial diversity in Argentina; almost everyone is white. Even in American societies that are characterized by racial diversity (such as the United States and much of Latin America), it is easy to find people who are all black, all white, or all native/indigenous, in addition to people who are multi-racial.

Marengo 09-23-2010 05:56 AM

A couple of websites with the anscestors of Princess Máxima:

Ancestry of Maxima Zorreguieta

Ancestors of Mxima Zorreguieta Cerruti

Ancestors of Maxima Zorreguieta Cerruti

The paternal family is from the Basque region indeed. I believe the family originally lived in the town Tolosa: Tolosa, Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The cerutti family seems to be from varese, in the Ligure disctrict in Italy: Varese Ligure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of her anscestors is King Afonso III of Portugal.

Alberto2244 05-14-2013 06:47 AM

Relationship between Máxima and WA:
Le futur roi Guillaume-Alexandre Ier des Pays Bas et la future reine Maxima: lien | généalogies angevines et royales

ashelen 05-14-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claypoint2 (Post 1137818)
Maxima's maiden name is Zorreguieta....

Thanks for the quote! here in amrica they asume if you are from southamerican you are dark, when i did my papaers for theUS and I got my citiceship state i am latin skin dark, and i maade a big complain, i asked what colour you see my skin, and my eyes, they answer white and blue eyes, so you make the corrections in my papers, i born in argentina but my parents are danoish end of story! stop to put labels to the people!

carlota 05-14-2013 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikha Pal (Post 1123005)
...I am Interested in knowing where are Crown Princess Maxima"s ancestors from other than Italy ?

The origins of maxima's family are not italian but Basque. it is in fact quite common for argentinians to be descendants of european immigrants, most of the population (i read some time ago as high as 80%) comes from european origin. amongst these, both spanish and italian origins account for the most.

as i was writing this first paragraph, i checked wikipedia on its article in spanish of "ethnic composition of argentina", which states exactly my facts:

it opens by saying:

Quote:

The current ethnic composition of the population of Argentina is the direct result of the descendants of the great wave of immigration, mostly Europeans mainly Italian and Spanish second, which occurred between 1870 and 1950
to move onto in the next sentences to:

Quote:

According to the results of a study conducted in 2010 by the Argentine geneticist Daniel Corach, the genetic map of Argentina would be composed by 79.9% from different European ethnic groups, 15.8% of different ethnicities Amerindian, and 4.3% of ethnicity africanas.2 3
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composi...a_de_Argentina


so maxima is of a traditional argentinian origin in that her family comes from spain originally, although several generations have lived in argentina and have no personal relationship to their ancestor's countries.

madrid 05-14-2013 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1139564)
A couple of websites with the anscestors of Princess Máxima:


One of her anscestors is King Afonso III of Portugal.

It is strange that we have never heard of before.

Imamonarchist 06-24-2013 12:28 AM

I believe Queen Maxima is also descended from the Inca emperors, is she not?

Marengo 06-25-2013 02:32 AM

Wasn't that claim by the mother of Marie Chantal of Greece? I think that Máxima is mainly of Italian-Basque descent.

madrid 06-25-2013 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imamonarchist (Post 1567674)
I believe Queen Maxima is also descended from the Inca emperors, is she not?


It is hard to believe.

Warren 06-25-2013 04:07 PM

I'm not sure whether it was a throwaway joke, a self-deprecating aside, or if it was ever said at all. Whatever the case, it was trotted out at regular intervals by lazy journalists to be used against her as evidence of gasp! unseemly social ambition. That is until the journos got over the fact that all three of her daughters - the boringly well-educated, well-mannered, well-behaved and very rich Miller sisters - had married (on the suface at least) extremely well, after which there was not much left to be said.

Imamonarchist 06-25-2013 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1568130)
Wasn't that claim by the mother of Marie Chantal of Greece? I think that Máxima is mainly of Italian-Basque descent.

I've never heard that at all, but I know Reitwiesner proved Maxima's descent from a Peruvian conquistador, complete with a note that Pedro Alvarez de Holguin had this ancestor of Maxima's (a daughter) with an Amerindian woman. Also, on her Wikipedia article this assertion is given, her father and many other ancestry tracings providing support.

The descent is apparently from Tupac Huallpa, puppet Emperor in 1533 after the Spanish conquistadors overthrew Atahualpa.

Reitwiesner also proved her descent twice over from Afonso III of Portugal, I believe by two of Afonso's illegitimate children. One of them from a Jewish mistress of Afonso's, if I'm correct.

carlota 06-26-2013 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imamonarchist (Post 1567674)
I believe Queen Maxima is also descended from the Inca emperors, is she not?

inca emperors? i am not sure where you got this info from. as Marengo says, you may be getting confused with marie chantal miller.

besides, the incas were never very active in argentina, but rather in the northern countries of south america.

Marc23 06-29-2013 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlota (Post 1568558)
inca emperors? i am not sure where you got this info from. as Marengo says, you may be getting confused with marie chantal miller.

besides, the incas were never very active in argentina, but rather in the northern countries of south america.

Here is the link where you can find the descent line from the Emperor Tupac Huallpa to Queen Maxima:

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/et_deo/incas.wps.htm

Just scroll down and find the line 17A-2 to see the descent connection.

IslandDweller 08-22-2013 03:58 PM

It's long occurred to me that Maxima's lineage has a bit more snob appeal than most spouses in her generation of royals, i.e. Mary, Mette-Marit, Daniel, Letizia, or Kate.

It's true her heritage is varied in this respect, and one paternal great-grandmother was evidently a farm laborer in Italy, but most branches of her family tree have been genteelly established for at least several generations, and have been government officials, landowners, doctors, and bankers.

Regarding Marie-Chantal's mother, she's often been referred to as "the last of the Inca princesses" because of her grace and style, but I've never read up on her to any great extent and have seen no indication that she is responsible for the fact that she's referred to this way.

Rayarena 05-18-2014 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claypoint2 (Post 1137818)
Maxima's maiden name is Zorreguieta, which suggests a Basque origin. That part of her family (patrilineal descent) is probably from the Basque country, which is located in northern Spain and southern France. It's her mother's father's side of the family (i.e., Maxima's maternal grandfather) that is Italian; Cerruti is their family name.

Regarding race: While it is true that there is a great deal of racial intermingling throughout the Americas, it does not mean that you can assume that someone has a multi-racial background just because he or she hails from the American continents. For example, there is very little racial diversity in Argentina; almost everyone is white. Even in American societies that are characterized by racial diversity (such as the United States and much of Latin America), it is easy to find people who are all black, all white, or all native/indigenous, in addition to people who are multi-racial.

Actually, there is a lot more race mixing in Argentina than most Argentines would leave you to believe. In a country where there's a level of racism, and there is a pride in being European, people tend to sweep under the rug non-white ancestors. There is a documentary called Afroargentines that refutes the self-perpetuated Argentine myth of absolute Europeaness. Here is what it says:

Afroargentines

“Most Argentines, if you ask, will tell you: ‘In Argentina there are no black people.’” So opens AFROARGENTINES, a film which unearths the hidden history of black people in Argentina and their contributions to Argentine culture and society, from the slaves who fought in the revolutionary wars against Spain, to the contemporary struggles of black Argentines against racism and marginalization. The film uses historical documents from the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, but is mostly based on interviews with black Argentines from a variety of backgrounds: intellectuals and taxi drivers, immigrants from Africa and native Afroargentines.

The story that unfolds provides a counternarrative to the national myth of Argentina’s exclusively European heritage. Prizewinner at the 2003 CINESUL Festival, AFROARGENTINES is a refutation of the pervasive exclusion of blacks from official Argentine history. It shows that the first Argentine president, Bernardino Rivadavia, was of African descent. It details black Argentines’ important participation in the revolutionary wars. It shows how tango, a touchstone for Argentine national identity, is rooted in milonga, candombe, cañiegue, and other musical and dance forms of 19th century black Argentines. AFROARGENTINES also exposes how the whitewashing of the Argentine self-image came about. Racist ideas about blacks as dangerous for national progress brought about such genocidal official practices as the drafting of blacks into the most dangerous positions in the army and their quarantining during the cholera epidemics, even as race mixture both diminished the black population and spread African blood throughout the Argentine population, including those who now consider themselves “white.” But the descendants of the first black Argentines live on, their numbers bolstered by black immigration from Cape Verde (such as the parents of Afroargentine co-director Jorge Fortes) in the early 20th century, and in the last 10 years, from West Africa. These immigrants have made their own contributions and faced their own challenges in Argentine society.

Which brings me to Maxima. According to her genealogical trace, she may very likely have black ancestry:

See below [taken from: http://www.wargs.com/royal/maxima.html] her 7th great grand parents were probably mestizos or mulattos:

583 Juana María Aguirre (posiblemente, ambos cónyuges eran mestizos ó mulatos)

Duc_et_Pair 05-19-2014 08:36 AM

How can Máxima Zorreguieta Cerruti ever, ever descend from indians as it is documented that in 1790 a certain gentleman named José Antonio de Sorreguieta y Oyarzábal, Gamboa y Sagastume from the city of Tolosa (Basque, Spain) moved to Salta in Argentina. He is the first Argentine Zorreguieta in Máxima's parental. He married an Argentine named Micaela Maurín y Bamonde.

A hundred years later a certain gentleman named Giacomo Cerruti from the city of Varese (Liguria, Italy) moved to San Nicólas de Arroyos in Argentina. He is the first Argentine Cerruti in Máxima's parental. He married an Argentine named Petrona Rita Ponce de León y Pastor.

It is from these two that Máxima's "Argentine" parental is constructed. Really, any link with Inca-emperors looks most unlikely and far-fetched to me...

:rofl:

ashelen 05-19-2014 10:54 AM

Most of the black Argentinean died with the yellow fever and the ones who were alive were moved to Brasil before the slavery abolition in 1813. May be in the last 10 years you can have immigration from Africa, but I lived there for 20 years and I had never seen a black person. Certenly Maxima does not have any African blood.

Duc_et_Pair 05-19-2014 12:46 PM

I think the chance that Máxima has a black person in her ancestry is greater than the chance that she descends from an Inca Emperor...

:lol:

But a closer look to the ancestry learns:

In the paternal line :
- her father Jorge Zorreguieta was a landowner, a government minister and president of employers unions
- her grandfather Juan Antonio Zorreguieta was a landowner and a banker
- her great-grandfather Amadeo Zorreguieta was a landowner, a mayor and a government minister
- her great-grandfather Oreste Stefanini was a maritime enterpreneur
- her great-great-grandfather Mariano Zorreguieta was a landowner, a government minister, member and president of the senate
- Etc.

In the maternal line:
- her grandfather Jorge Horacio Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon
- her great-grandfather Santiago Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon
- her great-grandfather Domingo Carricart was a landowner, a banker and a mayor
- her great-great-grandfather Santiago Cerruti (the Cerruti whom emigrated to Argentina) was a marine enterpreneur
- her great-great-grandfather Bernardo Carricart (the Carricart whom emigrated to Argentina) was a veterinarian doctor
- Etc.

So all by all, Máxima's ancestors seems to have belonged more to the Haves than to the Have-nots in society. Back then Argentine society was very class-conscious, so I doubt a marriage with someone "below the standing" (mayors, bankers, ministers, surgeons) would have been acceptable...

:whistling:

Marengo 05-19-2014 06:41 PM

I believe it was the Roman emperor Hadrian who aid that we will all have a shepherd somewhere in our family trees ;). But considering a large part of Máxima's anscestors are from the Iberian peninsula, a black anscestor a few centuries ago is rather likely.


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