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pamela18335 06-30-2010 09:11 PM

A bride for Alexei
 
Vasillisos, this thread is entirely your fault! ;)

Let's say that no revolution occurred, and that Alexei lived to see his majority. Given as Vasillisos has said, Nicky and Alix would be very careful to ensure that Alexei didn't marry anyone who might carry the gene defect that caused hemophilia.

The marriage would have to be an "equal" one, and, unless I miss my guess, the candidate could not be a descendent of Queen Victoria via the material line.

Candidates, anyone?

pamela18335 06-30-2010 09:20 PM

Oops, my bad! I forgot to note that the candidate must be Orthodox, or willing to convert to Orthodoxy. :bang:

Vasillisos Markos 06-30-2010 10:55 PM

How about the Greek Royal Family? They would already be orthodox, surely there were some princesses there. Princess Olga was born in 1903, which makes her slightly older than Alexei, but Princess Marina, who later married the Duke of Kent, was born in 1906 and they were both descended from the Russian Royal Families. I am not sure, however, if they were first cousins to Alexei which would automatically rule them ineligible (or should have by Orthodox beliefs) to marry him but I don't think they were first cousins.

Leslie2006 07-01-2010 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos (Post 1105087)
How about the Greek Royal Family? They would already be orthodox, surely there were some princesses there. Princess Olga was born in 1903, which makes her slightly older than Alexei, but Princess Marina, who later married the Duke of Kent, was born in 1906 and they were both descended from the Russian Royal Families. I am not sure, however, if they were first cousins to Alexei which would automatically rule them ineligible (or should have by Orthodox beliefs) to marry him but I don't think they were first cousins.

No, Alexei was not a first cousin to the Greek girls (Olga, Elizabeth and Marina). In fact, he was their double second cousin through Alexander II and Christian IX. So you are correct, both being of the Orthodox faith, Alexei could have married one of his Greek cousins.

Christian IX ------> George I -----> Nicholas ----->OEM
Christian IX ------> Dagmar ------>Nicholas II----> Alexei

Alexander II ------> Alexander III ------> Nicholas II -----> Alexei
Alexander II ------> Vladimir -----------> Elena -----------> OEM

Royal Fan 07-01-2010 02:24 PM

How about the Countess of Harewood

Lumutqueen 07-01-2010 02:38 PM

Which Countess of Harewood?

Vasillisos Markos 07-01-2010 03:34 PM

I think Royal Fan means Princess Mary, the Princess Royal, when mentioning the Countess of Harewood. Mary would have had to convert to the Orthodox faith but Alix did it after some soul searching. Since Mary was descended from the male line (Victoria-Edward VII-George V) there would have been no fear that she could pass the hemophilia gene along to Alexei, so she would have been a suitable candidate, but 8 years older than Alexei

Lumutqueen 07-01-2010 03:44 PM

Well age doesn't matter if your in love.

MAfan 07-01-2010 04:23 PM

Excluding all the Catholic Princesses, because the Pope wouldn't agree about their conversion:
Ingrid or Astrid of Sweden;
Feodora, Carolina Mathilde or Alexandrina Louise of Denmark;
Evgenia, Olga, Elisabeta or Marina of Greece;
Friederike of Hannover;
Irene or Viktoria of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld;
Viktoria of Schleswig Holstein;
Karoline, Sieglinde or Elisabeth of Lippe-Biesterfeld;
Eleonore of Lippe-Weissenfeld;
Marie Therese, Luise, Marianne, Elisabeth of Prussia;
Ileana of Romania;
Sophie of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach;
Elisabeth of Saxe-Altenburg;
Sibylle or Caroline of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha;
Elisabeth or Bathildis of Schaumburg-Lippe.

Royal Fan 07-01-2010 05:26 PM

Didnt he once say he wanted to marry Ileana of Romania

pamela18335 07-01-2010 10:12 PM

MAfan: I quite like the idea of Princess Ileana of Romania. Already Orthodox, certainly an "equal" marriage, and a woman of compassion and strength. She would likely have made an excellent Empress Consort.

And since one of the things held so darkly against Alix was her German nationality, Ileana, who considered herself Romanian to her very soul, would have been an ideal choice.

MAfan 07-02-2010 05:24 AM

Considering that his (much in love) parents dared to the whole world in order to marry, since nobody wanted them to do but the German Emperor, I wonder whether Nicholas and Alexandra would force him to a politically convenient marriage or they would allow him to marry only the woman he loved (but of course, a Royal woman).

persian85033 07-02-2010 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 1105673)
Considering that his (much in love) parents dared to the whole world in order to marry, since nobody wanted them to do but the German Emperor, I wonder whether Nicholas and Alexandra would force him to a politically convenient marriage or they would allow him to marry only the woman he loved (but of course, a Royal woman).

Didn't Ella and Serge also want them to marry?

Though I wonder most who would have been a prospective husband, or have been chosen for OTMA. Especially, as, I mean, Olga was 21 or something. She should have been married, or at least have someone in mind for her, if she wasn't engaged. At least most of her aunts/cousins and such were married by the time they were 21, weren't they?

MAfan 07-02-2010 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by persian85033 (Post 1105868)
Didn't Ella and Serge also want them to marry

Yes, probably you're right; but apart from them, all the other relatives of N&A were against the match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by persian85033 (Post 1105868)
Though I wonder most who would have been a prospective husband, or have been chosen for OTMA. Especially, as, I mean, Olga was 21 or something. She should have been married, or at least have someone in mind for her, if she wasn't engaged. At least most of her aunts/cousins and such were married by the time they were 21, weren't they?

Olga was 23, Tatiana 21, Maria 19 and Anastasia 17 when they were murdered; and at the time; I was surprised too that no one of them was engaged at the time. I mean, when their mother married aged 22 she was considered even too old for marrying!
Btw, the Earl Mountbatten of Burma was in love with Maria, and always kept a picture of her beside his bed; but the same Maria once said that her intention was to marry a Russian soldier and have twenty children with him.

pamela18335 07-02-2010 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 1105673)
Considering that his (much in love) parents dared to the whole world in order to marry, since nobody wanted them to do but the German Emperor, I wonder whether Nicholas and Alexandra would force him to a politically convenient marriage or they would allow him to marry only the woman he loved (but of course, a Royal woman).

MAfan, while I would like to hope that his parents would have encouraged a love match, rather than a politically correct one, my bigger question would be what Alix's emotional response to her son's marriage would have been. Alix was so emotionally invested in Alexei, both as her only son and the heir to the throne, that I have a hard time envisioning her "warm approval" of any match that he might make. After all, the bride would be someone who would/should become first in Alexei's heart, supplanting in many ways Alix's place in Alexei's life.

I think Alix would have settled nicely into the life of Dowager Empress (had that occurred), but as a mother-in-law to any bride of Alexei, I suspect she would have been less than stellar.

pamela18335 07-02-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 1105891)

Olga was 23, Tatiana 21, Maria 19 and Anastasia 17 when they were murdered; and at the time; I was surprised too that no one of them was engaged at the time. I mean, when their mother married aged 22 she was considered even too old for marrying!
Btw, the Earl Mountbatten of Burma was in love with Maria, and always kept a picture of her beside his bed; but the same Maria once said that her intention was to marry a Russian soldier and have twenty children with him.

MAfan, I have to laugh at that reference to Maria, I can almost hear her saying that!

I recall reading that Olga at one point in early adulthood stated flatly that she was Russian and would never marry anyone if she were required to move from Russia. That would have drastically limited her choices, since most candidates would have been the progeny of families who were not looked upon with favor by Alix.

Vasillisos Markos 07-02-2010 06:13 PM

Quite right, Pamela, I read the same thing about Olga being Russian to the core and swearing she would only marry a Russian. But then, love does have a way of complicating things. The older Grand Duchesses may have been more in the "marrying mood" if the war had not intervened, which accounts for the lack of suitors to some extent. Right before the war broke out, the family went to Rumania with the idea of seeing what may become of Carol and Olga getting to know one another.

ON the other hand, I don't think Nicky and Alicky were in a big hurry to marry off their daughters and I think sheltered the daughters which may have stunted their emotional growth to the extent that the girls were not agitating to get out and get some boyfriends.

MAfan 07-02-2010 06:37 PM

Indeed the war quite surely postponed the marriage question. The biggest issue was finding a suitable husband for their daughters liked by Alexandra, almost an impossible mission if they wanted to marry to Russian men.
Actually it would cause some troubles, because, unless they married inside the Imperial Family, no Russian man would be of Royal blood, and Russian Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses were requested to marry only to members of Sovereign or Mediatized families.

This leads me to a question: what would be the general reaction to a (equal) marriage of Alexis to a "mere" German Countess, member of a Mediatized House?

vsriCo 07-03-2010 08:35 AM

"Royal blood"? You mean Royal status. Plenty of Russian noble families were descended from the previous Rurikid dynasty. Not to mention the Bagrations were most definitely of "royal blood" despite only having the status of nobility within the empire.

reginalix 07-03-2010 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsriCo (Post 1106134)
"Royal blood"? You mean Royal status. Plenty of Russian noble families were descended from the previous Rurikid dynasty. Not to mention the Bagrations were most definitely of "royal blood" despite only having the status of nobility within the empire.


The Bagrations but only half of the family were in the highest rank of nobility (the rank where all the descendants of Rukhikid, Gedemides, Jagellon, Khans were). It was the branch of the actual Anna Bagration (the unhappy bride, ex wife of Davit).
The branch of the late Grand Duchess Leonida Romanova belonged to the high nobility in Georgian Kingdom, as great vassal and minor branch of Bagration, so the Russian Court respected this hierarchy. They were on lowest rank in the imperial high nobility.
The russian system respected the local system, just adaptated.


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