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snowflower 03-07-2010 06:42 PM

It is documented that Amalia had a serious anatomical problem. She had vaginal atresia and was most pobably suffering from Rokitansky-Mayer-Küster-Hauser(RMKH) syndrome. But RMKH was not known during most of her life , so it was difficult to diagnose her properly. Amalia herself confessed to her doctors and her sister Frederika (who came with her in Greece when Amalia became Queen) that she avoided sleeping with Otto because during these times she would suffer intorelable pain , as if she was a virgin. But on ther other hand , she was not really interested in trying new treatments. Not to mention that Otto wasn't really trying to push her into trying new treatments. Whenever her doctors came to him to ask him to pressure her, he would say " Whatever Her Majesty decides. After all, these matters are firstly in God's hands whatever you claim gentlemen",and he would be a pathetic receiver on news about the doctors' treatment. So , apart from this obvious medical issue , there were probably more issues to be solved in her relationship. Their relationship was consumated , but I doubt they had regular physical relationship. And the Greeks who worked in the palace, often heard Bavarians speaking in low voices about " the Queen's virginal pain" and " the King's indifference on the matter". Rumours can start on less basis than that....

Jaya 10-21-2010 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros (Post 1055765)
From all the above accounts, it seems that Amalia, apart from any possible anatomic problems, was suffering from what is called anaphrodisia or in lay terms, frigidity.
Insofar as Otto was concerned, all the Greek literature abounds in vague comments about his impotence. However, this word has two meanings, the layman's, that is, a man's inability to achieve and sustain penile tumescence and the medical, that is, inability to produce adequare count of healthy spermatozoa capable of fertilizing a woman's egg. Which of the two meanings these authors were implying is not clear.
At any rate, the way I perceive it from all these comments is that neither Amalia nor Otto were interested in intercourse and possibly the marriage remained uncosummated. As it is known, unconsummated marriage is a solid reason for annulment particularly in the Catholic Church. So the fact that Otto never sought that suggests that he had no sexual interest.

This sounds like the most credible account of what was These two were just not interested........ thanking you Vlaha!!!!

snowflower 10-22-2010 06:19 PM

Well not only they were not terribly interested in the first but also the medical problems they might have faced, they were not meant to be very lucky in producing a heir and providing stability to their throne. I personally doubt that the marriage was uncossumated , given that bunch of doctors paraded through Amalia's life after a few years of her marriage , but the whole nature of their sexual life seems so obscure.... Anyway I have another large question about this couple and its about religion. Otto was a Roman Catholic and an extremely devout . Amalia was a Lutheran and she was quite serious about her religion too - their personal households were also religiousely divided ( apart from the Greeks memebers of course who were Orthodox in both cases) and they kept their personal priests and confessor. Who they managed to get married in the first place and keeping their faiths? Did they get some dispensation from Rome under the condition of raising their children as Roman Catholic? And to complicate things the Constitution of 1844 was very clear that their heirs would have to be Orthodox in order to succeed Otto in the throne. Whou would they managed to raise Orthodox children?

Vasillisos Markos 10-24-2010 12:30 AM

In the Russian Court, the heir's wife had to be Orthodox, thereby ensuring that future heirs to the throne would be borne of an Orthodox mother. In this situation, could Amelie's Orthodox faith overcome any impediment to Otto being Roman Catholic? By this I mean, was it her faith which would ensure that the children would be raised in the Orthodox Church?

snowflower 10-24-2010 10:26 AM

VM , Amalia was not Orthodox , she was a Lutheran and she remain Lutheran her whole life. That's why I am confused by the whole situtation. Otto was a Devout Roman Catholic, his wife was a Lutheran who must have also been quite devout in order not to convert after her marriage . I suppose that the Catholic Church allowed the marriage but placed some restrictions about the faith of their offspring. And finally the first Greek Constitution which occured after their marriage ( and therefore long after any kind of agreement about the faith of their children), demanded that Otto's heir had to be Orthodox in order to succeed him. In fact it didn't matter what was the religion of the parents - in theory all a possible child needed to get Orthodox would be an Orthodox baptism, and Orthodox godparent to teach him the faith and the consent of the parents to the baptism. But I somehow doubt that Amalia and Otto would have liked to give that consent

Vasillisos Markos 10-24-2010 04:50 PM

Thank you for correcting my mistake -- from the earlier thread, I had assumed that Amelia was Orthodox. This certainly is very strange but it is apparent that the Greeks, by drafting a constitution, wanted their future heirs to be Orthodox.

snowflower 11-02-2010 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos (Post 1151251)
This certainly is very strange but it is apparent that the Greeks, by drafting a constitution, wanted their future heirs to be Orthodox.

The truth is that they had some pretty good reasons to wish it. The first problems between Otto and the Orthodox clergy started very early , the year 1833. That year Mauer issued a Royal Decree stating that the Orthodox Church of Greece was from taht moment an autocephalous church. This happened without a previous agreement between the Patriachate of Constantinople and the Bavarian Regency which irritated the Patriach very much because he , as the spiritual leader of all Orthodoxs, had to give his consent before the declaration, and as a result he refused to recognise the newly founded Greek Church(without declaring it schismatic of course)and canonical communion between the Greek Church and the Patriarchate stopped until 1850 when the Greek bishops followed the formall way and asked him to recognize the Church of Greece as an autonomous and autocephalous Church. But this Royal Decree also irritated many Greek priests and Bishops for two reasons: a) because they feared that the Regency wanted to make the Church a subject to the State and b) because the Roman Catholics deared to mess with internal religious matters instead of leaving them to deal with it. The truth is that the Church had to become autonomous for practical reasons and because it was clear that since Greece was now an independent state the Patriach could no longer be the administrative head of the Church of Greece, but very few Greeks, if any, liked the way the Bavarians handled it.
But apart from this incident which had political implications and so Otto had some right to intervene, The Greeks felt that Otto and before him the Regency tried to undermine Orthodoxy in the country. They "forgave" him and Amalia for not converting but they were never content with the amount of respect he showed for their religion which in their eyes was not sufficient. For example one Easter they had big argument I believe because during the Holy Friday , when the Epitaphios procession passed before the Palace , they stopped for the King and Queen to come and pay their respects. Otto felt that it was not proper for him to just get out in the street and asked for the Epitaph to come inside the Palace yard. The Priests on their part got very angry that the King felt the pavement wasn't good enough for him to show his respect to the Epitaphios and that he wanted them to move the procession were it suited him . And many other incidents like this occured over the years. And last , but not least, Otto showed great support to Catholic missionaires who came in Greece and opened schools for the children, supporting them with money and supplies they needed . This made the Greeks feared that their King not only didn't show enough respect for their Church but wanted to push them towards convrting to Catholicism. So, they were not willing to tolerate a second Catholic King and once they got their chance the made sure that the next Monarch would share the religion of his people.

Kasumi 10-28-2011 11:49 AM

Ottosaeule monument
The Ottosaeule monument, honouring Prince Otto or King Othon as he was known in Greece, is pictured October 16, 2011 in Ottobrunn, a small town established outside Munich in 1955 at the spot Otto departed for Greece.
During the nineteenth century 'Europe's Great Powers' of France, UK and Russia believed establishing a monarchy in newly-independent but penniless Greece, which they bank rolled and had helped liberate from Ottoman rule, would be the best form of government, but they wanted a second-tier royal family without much ambition and which wouldn't pose a threat.
Prince Otto second son of Bavarian King Ludwig I, arrived in Greece as a 17-year-old in 1832 with a team of Bavarian bureaucrats, only one of whom had ever been to Greece before, marking the start of a long period of Western meddling, spawning a resentment that continues to this day.

daylife gallery

vetterteri 08-21-2012 09:24 PM

Assistance with King Otto Genealogy during his youth
Hi - I need some help with understanding some of the history of Otto King of Greece. My ancestors ( two brothers) went to Munich University with Otto in his youth just prior to his reign. They actually traveled back to Greece with him as they were childhood friends of the family. One of my ancestor brothers became a court physician during Otto's reign and the other ancestor brother of mine was an artist whom was commissioned to decorate the Queen's chambers ( Otto's mother) He went on to marry a Countess whom was a companion friend to the Queen at the time. Can anyone assist me with further discussion on the youth of Otto and or to whom I would write for knowledge of artifacts from this time frame? I can provide any names that I have and timelines if this will help! Thank you in advance!

CyrilVladisla 05-28-2016 11:42 PM

Amalia's arrival in Greece caused much sensation. as well as curiosity among the Greeks. Amalia's fair hair and complexion were a novelty in Greece.

wartenberg7 12-17-2016 05:40 PM

A question: The discription of this painting by Dominique Louis Papety only says The Duke of Montpensier and his suite visiting the ruins of Athens.
1st) Where is the Duke? The man with the blue sash?
2nd) Is he joined by King Otto and his Queen? I think the rider on the left in greek costume looks a lot like Otto?! Any clarification will be much appreciated!

Royaland : Photo

maria-olivia 12-17-2016 06:22 PM

King Louis Philippe of France 's Son.
Painting is at the musée du château de Versailles.

wartenberg7 12-17-2016 06:27 PM

I did a little research myself and was lucky to find something:
The painting indeed shows an excursion of the King and Queen of Greece, Otto I and Queen Amalia, with the Orléans Duke on Sept. 12th 1845.

Lee-Z 12-17-2016 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by snowflower (Post 1057689)
It is documented that Amalia had a serious anatomical problem. She had vaginal atresia and was most pobably suffering from Rokitansky-Mayer-Küster-Hauser(RMKH) syndrome....<snip>

Quoted post was posted in 2010; in the wiki article linked it appears that in 2011 research was done to the situation from which on wiki this article is linked:

eya 07-30-2017 01:35 PM

"The holy Roman Catholic Church, the Teatinerkirche Munich are the sarcophagi of the members of the Royal House Wittelsbach that from 1180 to 1918 reigned in Bavaria.
Every year the Duke of Bavaria has been in Teatinerkirche memorial for all members of the Royal House.
The current Douke Frantz of Bavaria invites every year and the Metropolis representative Germany Protopresbyteros Apostolos Malamousis to attend the memorial, where there is the sarcophagus of King Otto of Greece, a member of the Royal House Wittelsbach and Queen Amalia.
On July 26, 2017, Memorial Day for the King of Greece, Othonas, took place in Munich on the initiative of the Protopresbyteros Apostolos Malamousis , on the occasion of the 150th anniversary of his death."

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CyrilVladisla 11-06-2018 07:43 PM

The heir of the deposed King Otto
Prince Leopold of Bavaria was, according to the provisions of the 1843 Greek constitution, the heir of the deposed King Otto. Due to the renunciation by his elder brother Ludwig of all his rights to the Greek succession and since the Greek Constitution forbade the monarch to be ruler of another country (Ludwig became King Ludwig III of Bavaria), Leopold technically succeeded upon Ludwig's renunciation to the rights of the deposed Otto I.

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