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Regina 12-13-2007 05:24 AM

Bourbon-Parma: Spain, Carlist political activity, the Montejura Shootings
 
Sixtus Henry, on 17 July 2001 wrote his Manifesto, where he asks for himself the support of all Carlists.

Manifesto of HRH of Sixtus Henry of Bourbon

Marengo 12-14-2007 06:28 AM

He really seems to be living in a world of his own, calling his father ´King Xavier´ and he is even signing the letter with the words ´in exile´, would that be voluntairy ´exile´ or isn´t he allowed to enter ´anarchistic´ Spain?

But he probably doesn´t have these idiotic ideas from a stranger, both his parents were rather weird too. A few days after the engagement of Princess Irene of The Netherlands to Carlos-Hugo Juliana, Bernhard and Beatrix left for a state visit to Mexico. During the days of absensce the Parma clan (in Dutch books they usually write ´his horrible sisters´) took over Palace Soestdijk and I believe the courtiers and/or Princess Margriet had to call (or threaten to call) the police of Baarn to get them to behave.

Regina 12-14-2007 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 704800)
But he probably doesn´t have these idiotic ideas from a stranger, both his parents were rather weird too. A few days after the engagement of Princess Irene of The Netherlands to Carlos-Hugo Juliana, Bernhard and Beatrix left for a state visit to Mexico. During the days of absensce the Parma clan (in Dutch books they usually write ´his horrible sisters´) took over Palace Soestdijk and I believe the courtiers and/or Princess Margriet had to call (or threaten to call) the police of Baarn to get them to behave.

Let's say humbleness and discernment are not this family's strongest points :rolleyes:

Next Star 05-10-2008 01:16 AM

Is Prince Carlos Hugo of Bourbon-Parma still trying to claim this right to the Spanish throne or ihas he stopped making claims to the throne? For anyone who answers this question thanks in advance.

Marengo 05-10-2008 04:53 AM

Carlos-Hugo came to terms with his position a long time ago. I believe he gave up much of the ideals of Carlism at the time of the shooting incident, which led to a divorce from his wife (they noticed they didn't share much else than the cause they had been fighting for in vein) and a rift with his family, who stayed leaning to the ultra-catholic side.

Carlos-Hugo accepted Juan-Carlos as king of Spain soon enough too, and I believe it was reported that in the late 90-ties the Duke and the King had lunch together at Zarzuela. Some say that Prince Felipe and Princess Maria-Carolina were also present, but that might have been wishfull thinking (but what a great match it would have been).

lucien 05-10-2008 12:21 PM

Yes,the King and CH did have lunch together and old differences were buried for good.I've seen pics of that meeting at the time,IIRC at the Palacio del Oriente,in full regal splendour,but can't recall Princess Maria-Carolina being there as well.Sure,it was wishfull thinking,but good lord,what a match it would have been indeed!...sigh...

Dear Maria-Carolina did accompany her aunt,Queen Beatrix, at the funeral of HRH The Countess of Barcelona,the King's mother tho.

Carlos-Hugo,like Marengo said,has since decades given up the claim as he realised it wasn't in any way realistic anymore.

Marengo 06-04-2009 09:33 AM

On the french wikipedia site prince Sixtus is listed as 'Duke of Aranjuez', does anybody know when he started uing the title. Did his father give it to him, or is it an invention by himself?

Sixte Henri de Bourbon-Parme - Wikipédia

MAfan 06-04-2009 09:40 AM

In 1965 he enlistes in the Foreign Legion as Enrique Aranjuez; it makes me think about a connection with the title of Duke of Aranjuez he uses; but I don't know it.

Marengo 06-04-2009 09:47 AM

The english wikipedia says that he became duke of San Jaime in 1957, while Carlos Hugo became prince of Asturias. In 1964 prince Carlos Hugo also received the title duke of Madrid, according to the article.

Carlos Hugo, Duke of Parma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suppose Carlos Hugo dropped all Spanish titles in 1979, when he abandoned the Carlist claims.

Edit: Carlos-Hugo did not give up the Spanish titles, he names his son Carlos 'Duke of Madrid' on 28 September 2003.

maria-olivia 06-04-2009 03:14 PM

Bourbon-Parma: Their involvement with Carlism and the Montejurra Massacre
 
TRHH Prince Xavier and Princess Madeleine, born Bourbon Busset, were really great french royals. They died many years ago.. quarrels of the past have no sense at all and we really don't know what happened in the past.
Their sister in law was His Majesty Empress Zita. When Madeleine of Bourbon Parme died she was terribly affected because they were really closed to-gether.
If they are quarells now between brothers and sisters it is sad.
I wonder why Princess Irene is speaking now about her ex-brother in law.

MAfan 06-04-2009 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amedea (Post 947653)
Are you sure that prince Xavier was against Sixte-Henry and Madeleine? I never heard that and I supposed that as long as he lived there were no problems in the family

I guess he was not against SH and M, but only he supported CH.

The troubles started when X abdicated in favour of CH, in 1975; since CH supported a "socialist" transformation of Carlism, that was opposed by SH, the same SH accused the brother to have constrained X to abdicate, and named himself "abanderado" (standard-bearer) of the "true" Carlism. X soon replied saying that his abdication was voluntary and that SH separated from Carlism.
Later, when X was in hospital going to die, in march 1977, SH published a declaration signed by his father saying that X was supporing the traditional Carlism of SH, and condamning CH's socialist ideals.
Some days later, CH and his sister Cecile took X out from the hospital, and at the same time X signed a declaration condemning SH and confirming his support to CH.
Soon Duchess M condemned CH and C.
On 7 may 1977 X died, and M forbade CH and C to enter in the castle where the body of X was lying before the funeral.

Quote:

quarrels of the past have no sense at all and we really don't know what happened in the past.
Totally agree, Maria Olivia; my is a reconstruction of what happened 32-34 years ago, that make me think that X was not against CH, or at least that his abdication had been volontary.

Marengo 06-04-2009 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 947662)
Totally agree, Maria Olivia; my is a reconstruction of what happened 32-34 years ago, that make me think that X was not against CH, or at least that his abdication had been volontary.

Princess Irene was asked about the matter in an interview that still has to be broadcasted. So what she says exactly is not clear yet, but she does refer to her former brother-in-law (very shortly probably). To be honest I am surprised that she didn't talk about it sooner, if one of my in-laws would shoot at me and kill two people in the process I don't think I would remain silent about it, no matter what title they have.

I wonder how Sixte Henri relates the killing to his faith, that he is fond of flaunting. The Bourbon-Parma family (or rather prince Xavier and his family) indeed made a spectacle out of themselves in the late 70-ties. As I said int he thread about princess Irene, their reputation here (in the Netherlands) was extremely bad (I say was as very little people now remember any other Bourbon-Parma than princess Margarita). That prince Sixte seems to be a fascist and supports anti semitic bisshops doesn't do much for his reputation either I suppose.

lucien 06-24-2009 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 947707)
Princess Irene was asked about the matter in an interview that still has to be broadcasted. So what she says exactly is not clear yet, but she does refer to her former brother-in-law (very shortly probably). To be honest I am surprised that she didn't talk about it sooner, if one of my in-laws would should at me and kill two people in the process I don't think I would remain silent about it, no matter what title they have.

I wonder how Sixte Henri relates the killing to his faith, that he is fond of flaunting. The Bourbon-Parma family (or rather prince Xavier and his family) indeed made a spectacle out of themselves in the late 70-ties. As I said int he thread about princess Irene, their reputation here (in the Netherlands) was extremely bad (I say was as very little people now remember any other Bourbon-Parma than princess Margarita). That prince Sixte seems to be a fascist and supports anti semitic bisshops doesn't do much for his reputation either I suppose.

---
I never read anything about a false pregnancy of princess Irene btw. But maybe other posters know more (lucien?).

---
The official reason that Carlos Hugo did not attend the 1st wedding of his daughter was because his plane was delayed. Unofficially it is said he did not approve of the character of Edwin de Roy van Zuydewijn. I am not sure how the duke thinks about unequal marriages but it seems that he has become somewhat more forgiving on the matter.

There are no doubt many who do not know anything on the stories,but I do,I have that age.....

No,there was no false pregnancy at all,a miscarriage yes,but not a false pregnancy.These are downright lies and made up stories by people who haven't got a clue in the first place.

Ofcourse CH didn't approve of that mans (EdRvZ) character,he smelled trouble before his smitten daughter did,and he was right.

On Sixtus.I have posted that story at least twice here,he aimed and shot at Irene and Carlos Hugo that day,and yes,two people in front of them were killed because of it.How Sixtus can relate the killing to his faith?Like he relates anything to himself first and then to anything/anyone else,a false saint,or in dutch,'n schijnheilige.Sixtus is a frustrated two-legged creature,a closeted queen every inch,and lack of it.An affront to mankind and a gay fascist one at that indeed,yes.If I was to meet him,I would still slap him in the face or rearrange his clockwork.That man is evil to the core.
I will never forgive him!!

The B-P family,Xavier and Madeleine were impossible people,pretentious poor rats,nada mas.It was Xavier that announced the engagement of Irene and Carlos,allthough that was the prerogative of HM Queen Juliana,who,in a split second,de-nounced that in a public statement on radio and tv here;" Our daughter is not engaged" .Old Xavier was trouble,Ok,he had been in a nazi concentration camp during the war,but his character was his and never changed,he was a hardliner as pretender.Pretender to what?Nada y nada otravez.There wasn't anything left of the former splendour,it were Irene's millions that patched-up the family and the families castle at Lignieres.

Then,as the engagement was announced by HM,and Irene and Carlos were picked up by plane by Bernhard and came to Soestdijk Palace,there was great joy,really,there was.

But then it appeared Carlos refused to give up his rights as pretender to the Throne of Spain,and Irene had to give up her rights as second in line to the Dutch Throne because of it,and ofcourse she converted to be a Roman-Catholic.The PM (Marijnissen at that time) insisted to have the marriage outside of the Netherlands and on Irene to drop her rights.It was called "the night of Marijnissen",and The Netherlands woke -up with the news that the Princess was to marry outside of the Netherlands and had stepped down as second in-line to the Throne,IIRC it was a rainy day,I remember it as being that,and all felt that way too.The people didn't understand what really happened.

The B-P family meanwhile,moved into Soestdijk Palace,and as HM and Prince Bernhard & Princess Beatrix were on a State Visit to Mexico,one Irene was to accompany them on but refused the last second to be with Carlos,the family really took over the Palace.

So much so,the staff hated their every whimp and one called Bernhard in Mexico.He got so infuriated by just another mediterrenean pretender bunch,and especially this one,that he litterally came to kick them out of Soestdijk Palace.They had taken over everything and ordered staff around as if they were theirs,so they went on strike till Bernhard kicked them out,unceremoniously.

Irene and Carlos wished for children,yes,but it wasn't untill 1971 till Carlos was born.In the meantime Irene received treatment in Geneva for years,forgot the man's name,never mind.She gave birth to Carlos in the dutch city of Nijmegen,at the (Catholic-) Radboud University hospital.
All had been forgiven by that time,btw,very soon after the wedding they were in Italy along with the rest of the family for the summer holidays,and they always came along to Lech for the winter holidays.

I recall everyones joy that Princess Irene finally gave birth,then came the twins,and then Maria-Carolina,who's 35th birthday it was yesterday.

35 Already.Time flies and heals many wounds.Duke Carlos Hugo ( who did hold the title Duke of Madrid,and I think still does allthough not connected to any claim any longer,he and Juanito get along very good) suffers of cancer.He received treatment here in Amsterdam and that is how I met him on several occasions.A modest warm and very kind frail man.
He is doing much better at present,thank goodness,and is still a dear and close companion to the various members of our Royal Family and as we know,he's always invited to the family events and warmly greeted by the a tad older as they recognise him and like him still.
What a life he had/has.His aunt the last Empress of Austria,all that is gone,all the splendour,what is left is a smiling friendly and warm human.

lucien 06-24-2009 03:44 AM

Bourbon-Parma: Their involvement with Carlism and the Montejurra Massacre
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 750768)
He is out and about,yes,but still receives treatment here at the Anthony van Leeuwenhoek hospital in Amsterdam.He reacts well to the treatment,thank goodness.

He's a kind modest man,the exact opposite of that loud and lousy brother,who's the risé of Royal Europe and who didn't feel it was beneath him to shoot at both his brother Carlos Hugo and Princess Irene at a Carlist gathering years ago.Just because this reactionary queen didn't agree with his brother.I never forgave him.And it was not a warning shot either,he aimed.And missed,like he missed so many things in his existance.A grey cell here and there.

Oh yes,he gets me going too,as you see.Not that he's really worth it tho.:ermm:

Ah,see,I knew I had posted on that creature Sixtus previously.

MAfan 06-24-2009 04:43 AM

A very hard and critical portrayt, Lucien; I don't know much about this Family and in particular about Sixte-Henri, here in Italy they are not very known (I've looked in the archives of one of our main newspaper, and since 1992 only 4-5 articles have been written about them, and full of mistakes), but my impression is that you are totally right...

Warren 06-24-2009 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 957569)
A very hard and critical portrayt, Lucien...

We would expect nothing else. Lucien holds strong views on Prince Sixte. :biggrin:
The Bourbon-Parma "takeover" of Soestdijk and the resulting forced ejection from the premises was hardly a glorious moment in the annals of the B-P dynasty.

claypoint2 12-25-2009 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 750768)
He's a kind modest man,the exact opposite of that loud and lousy brother,who's the risé of Royal Europe and who didn't feel it was beneath him to shoot at both his brother Carlos Hugo and Princess Irene at a Carlist gathering years ago.Just because this reactionary queen didn't agree with his brother.I never forgave him.And it was not a warning shot either,he aimed.And missed,like he missed so many things in his existance.A grey cell here and there.

Oh yes,he gets me going too,as you see.Not that he's really worth it tho.:ermm:


Sorry to resurrect this unpleasant story, but I was not familiar with it, and I just saw it now. Lucien, was Sixtus-Henri ever prosecuted for the crime? Was there a legal inquest or court proceedings?

I find his ideas distasteful in the extreme, but of course we must tolerate differences of opinion. However, the behavior that you describe in connection with the shooting appears to have been criminal, and I wonder if there were consequences.

MAfan 12-25-2009 05:32 PM

I guess some consequences have been, since two men have been killed...

claypoint2 12-25-2009 08:36 PM

Of course, MAfan, and that is a tragedy. But I was referring specifically to legal consequences for Sixtus-Henri. If he wasn't convicted and put in jail, how come not?

MAfan 12-26-2009 05:32 AM

According to wikipedia, "Although the murders took place in close proximity to the location of security forces, no one was arrested nor their weapons seized.Even though there was photographic evidence of one of the right-wing terrorists taking part of the events, he was not brought to trial."
"Following the requests of the Carlist Party, two Spanish citizens, José Luis Marín García Verde and Hermenegildo García Llorente, were indicted with murder and posteriorly released without trial as part of a blanket amnesty for "political prisoners" in March 1977.
On November 11, 2003, after various failures, one of the Carlist Party's motions led to the recognition by the Spanish high court of the two dead Carlists as victims of terrorism, therefore allowing their families to claim compensation from the Spanish Government."


So, it seems that Sixte Henri had no consequences... :nonono:


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