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Angela - Natalia 06-15-2004 07:19 PM

Miscellaneous States
I read a long time ago that when the last Foix Prince died Andorra was ceeded to France. It seems as thougth it never got it's independance back and is somhow jointly governed bu France and Spain although must have it's own local council of sorts. I think this is much more fuedal than monarchy because it still isn't an independant country really if it doesn't have it's own head of state. Even though this is the 21st Century they still pay 'dues' to their overloards France and Spain.

What about an Andorran Royal Family, home grown or adopted??!! Has anyone else thought about this? Do Andorran's prefer to have the odd visit from the French Premier to their own royals?? Personally I think I would still feel like I was in a French colony!!
Just something that came to mind watching the football and seeing the countries and anthems being played, nationality etc...Just some thoughts..

hrhcp 06-15-2004 09:33 PM

i think what's going against Andorra is its size and two very strong neighbours. Given Spains spats with the UK over Gibraltor, I can't 'see' anything changing until one or both parties mature.

Lalla Meriem 06-16-2004 11:07 AM

There is no Andorran royal family. The Principality of Andorra does, however, have 2 Princes. The President of France and the Spanish Bisop of Urgal are the Co-Princes of Andorra.

helleniki 06-25-2004 08:42 PM

Yes, it's correct. And we may say it's unbelievable how a Republican Head of State could act as a reigning Prince of other country. It's quite absurd, but the President of France is also Prince of Andorra... How republicanist the French Presidents are...

helleniki 06-25-2004 08:46 PM

But we could say inside Spain there are two Heads of State... the King of Spain and thi Bishop of Urgel, Prince of Andorra... It was quite fair if the King of Spain act as Prince of Andorra... In Andorra people spoke Catalan, the same idiom of Spanish region of Catalunya

hrhcp 07-04-2004 03:05 AM,336...93_1_A,00.html
Amazing that Andorra is not a member of the EU, when one "prince" of the co-princes heads up an EU country and the other "prince" of the co-princes ;) lives in an EU country !!!!!!!!!!!

saxon 01-05-2005 01:10 AM

why was switzerland never a Monarchy?...

hrhcp 01-05-2005 01:24 AM


Originally Posted by saxon
why was switzerland never a Monarchy?...

I think because the terrain allowed for small bands to survive raids and sieges. These small bands thus became fiercely independent over time. However, I have read that there was the odd noble or two.

semisquare 01-05-2005 12:31 PM

how were their rulers? and are there any ruling today?

hrhcp 01-05-2005 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by semisquare
how were their rulers? and are there any ruling today?

I will see what I can find, and no there are none ruling today.

DDD 01-05-2005 03:04 PM

Switserland is one on the two countries in Europe who never had a monarch.
The other one is San Marino.
In the beginning of the 20th centery there were 4 republics.
Switserland, San Marino, France and Portugal.
republic is a state without a monarch. It´s latin. Res-Publicia. The state of the people.

Humera 01-05-2005 06:12 PM

Switzerland doesnt have a monarchy but there is a swiss princess. Actually a half-swiss princess to be more accurate: CP Sarah of Brunei

hrhcp 01-05-2005 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Switzerland doesnt have a monarchy but there is a swiss princess. Actually a half-swiss princess to be more accurate: CP Sarah of Brunei

There's also Chantal Hochuli,
former Princess of Hannover
courtesy of Prince Ernst August
(now married to Princess Caroline of Monaco).

Reina 01-05-2005 11:54 PM

wow so she was stripped of her title? does anyone know how devastated she was of this? How much did she get in the divorce settlement. I hope she got a part of a palace or soemthing.

Warren 03-01-2005 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by Reina
wow so she was stripped of her title? does anyone know how devastated she was of this? How much did she get in the divorce settlement. I hope she got a part of a palace or soemthing.

No, she wasn't stripped of her title.

She is now HRH Chantal, Princess of Hanover, and will remain so until she remarries.

Divorce settlement? This divorce was handled fairly privately, so there was no news release as to how much she received.

As she is the mother of two relatively young Princes, one of whom will one day be the Head of the Royal House of Hanover, you would imagine she will be looked after.

Since the divorce Chantal has been very discreet.

Which is how it should be.

Lena 03-01-2005 08:45 AM

Summary of Switzerland´s history.
Obviously it (the country, that what Switzerland is today) was at least part of the empire of the Habsburg´s until the death of Rudolf, the first (in 1291)
Personally I would say, they had a lot of luck, that their plea for neutrality was accepted and that they weren´t involved in wars (at least not directly, that Switzerland played an infamous, though little role in WWII is well known)
And maybe Switzerland´s geography helped the luck a bit. Can imagine that generals weren´t too keen to fight in this mountainous area.

tancarville 11-19-2005 12:23 AM

Naxos Islands - Pretenders

Brief account of the history of the Aegean Islands

Christianity spread quickly to the island. Initially Naxos was ruled by the Church of Rhodes, but in 1083 it became the seat of the Metropolis of Paronaxia. In 1207 the Venetian, Marco Sanudo, conquered the islands of the Cyclades and established the Duchy of the Aegean, with its headquarters on Naxos. For six weeks the islanders held out valiantly against the Venetians, barricading themselves inside the old Byzantine fortress at Apalyros, but finally had to admit defeat. Sanudo built a strong fortress and divided the island into 56 provinces which he shared out amongst his officers. The Duchy remained a powerful force for nigh on three centuries. In 1564 the island was conquered by the Turks, but the administration remained, to all intents and purposes, in the hands of the Venetians, the sole concern of the Turks being to collect taxes. Indeed, it is said that the Turks' fear of the Greeks and of pirates was so great that very few actually lived on Naxos; consequently Turkish influence on the island is virtually non-existent.

The history of the dukes of Naxos and the Aegean Islands

The history of Latin dominion in the islands of the Aegeans begins shortly after the fourth crusade, with the capture of Naxos by the Venetians Marco Sanudo. With a fleet of eight gallerys loaned him by the Venetian authories, Sanudo cast anchor in the harbour of Potamidides, in the south-west of the island of Naxos, and advanced upon the inland Greek fortress of Apalire, which fell to him after a five week seige, despite the ad rendered to the Greeks by the Genoses. A little later, while the Latin Emperor Henry was engrossed in his struggle with Theodore Lascaris of Nicaea , and the Venetian government was much occipied with the conquest of Crete, Sanudo with some adventurous companion, most of whom apparently paid their own expense, undertook the reduction of the other islands of the Aegean. Sanudo's islands were organised as a Duchy, with Naxos as its capital, and here the conqueror rule as Duke Marcos I for twenty years (1207-27). As a result of several similiar expedtions a dozen Venetains acquired as fiefs , more than two dozen islands in the Aegean, for which some of them did homage to the duke of Naxos or the Archipelago as the islands and the duchy were later called (that is, Egean pelago).The long and little Annuls of the Latin Archipelago, filled with the names of the Sanudo and Ghisi, Crispo and Sommaripa, Quirini, Barozzi and Gozzadini.

Besides the capital islands of Naxos, Marco Sanudo himself took over about eleven islands, including Paros, Antiparos, Nio and Amorgos as well as Cythnos, Siphnos and Melos. Marcos cousin, Marino Dandolo was enfeoffed with the important island of Andros. The brothers Andrea and Geremia Ghisi relatives of Doge Enrico acquired Tenos, Mykones , and the Northern Sporades, Skypros and Skiathos, to which they soon added shares in Seriphos and in Zia. Where the Greeks Metropolitian of Athens , Michael Choniates was then living in exile, within sight of his beloved Attica. Jacopo Barozzi became lord of the volcanic islands of Thera, called Santorin and Leonardo Foscolo of adjoining Namfio. Giovanni Quirini took over the neighbouring island of Astypalaea, called by the Latins Stampalia, which was added to the Quirini family name , and is presevered to this day in Venice in the Campiello Palazzo, and Pinacoteca Quirini-Stampalia. Marcos Venier received Cythera, and Jacopo Viaro , the island of Cerigotto, while entirely on his own initiative Filocalo Navigaioso took possession of Lemnos , of which the Latin Emperor Henry made him Grand Duke (Megadux). In the islands as on the mainland Latin feudalism supp;ied, in good parts the political and social structure under which the Greeks of high estate and low now lived as Vassals and serfs. The introduction of the feudal system was easy here, as in continentl Greece, because the inhabitants were familiar with the Byzantine Pronoia, which resembled the Western Fief Certain feudal rights of Latin origins survived in the island of Naxos and elsewhere untill their abrogation in 1720 by the Turks.
After Marco I Sanudo the ducal sceptre of the Archipelago was borne by his heirs for more than a century and a half. They were succeeded , violently, by the Crispos in 1383. Twenty-One dukes of the two-dynasties ruled, first as vassals of the Latin Emperors, next of the Villhardouin Princes of Achaia, and thereafter of the Angevins of Naples and Taranto, in 1418 they became vassals of the Serene Republic of Venice, and later tributaries of the Sublime Porte. The last Latin Christian duke, was Jacopo IV Crispo was desposed in 1566 by the Sultan Selim II , who appointed a rich Jew, Joseph Nasi, the last Duke of Archipelago (1566-79). Even now , however, latin Christian rule was not entirely extinguished for the Gozzadini, a family of Bolognese origins, survived, with many vicissitudes of fortune , as lords of Siphnos, Cythnos , and five other little islands in the Cyclades untill 1617, and the island of Tenos remained Venetian untill 1714. In the years following 1206-07, Marcos Sanudo built on a hill, on the west side of the island of Naxos, the castle, where a Roman Catholic colony still lives. Below the Castle there quickly appeared a walled town , know as Borgo, and below the Borgo there grew up , along the coast , the Modern town of Neochori. A large influx of westerners into the aristocratic clony on the hill caused Sanudo to build a Latin Cathedral in the Castro beside his own Palace,A full complement of canons was appointed to the new cathedral, and the name of Naxos was added by papal scribes to the Provinciale Romanum. The Archbishop of Naxos had under him the four suffragans of Melos Santorin, Tenos and Syra. Throughout the thirteenth century and much of the fourteenth , the Duchy of the Archipelago and the island of Naxos , and the capital city in particular, enjoyed a prosperity such as it had seldom know since the ancient Naxiotes had been members of the Delian League. From the later forteenth century, however , war and piracy again disrupted the economy of the Aegean destroyed much commerce, rendered agriculture unprofitable , and sapped the strenght and hope of the inhabitants . Rhodes fell to the Turks in JANUARY 1523, Chios in 1566, the same year in which the Naxiote Duchy of the Crispo came to an end. With the return of some slight measure of orderly rule under the Ottoman government just before the mid-sixteenth century, a little of the prosperity which the Aegean islanders had know under the Sanudi was theirs again and the population, sadly depleted in the fifteehth and earlier sixteenth centuries , grew again in numbers and in confidence.

For genealogical data to view this page:'Oro/crispo.html'Oro/naxos.html

drcomet 06-15-2006 09:11 AM

Princess of Andorra
This personality does exist, although little known to many people. Do you all know who she'll be surprised if I gave you the answer!:D

Warren 06-15-2006 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by drcomet
This personality does exist, although little known to many people. Do you all know who she'll be surprised if I gave you the answer!:D

The co-princes are the Bishop of Urgel and the President of France.
Since the Bishop is unlikely to be married you probably mean Mrs Chirac. But there is no co-princess, just as there is no "presidentess".

drcomet 06-15-2006 11:44 PM

Princess of Andorra
Spot on Warren! A very unusual arrangement for the office of Head of State isn't it? In fact, wikipedia has an entry for this

Toledo 06-16-2006 12:53 AM


Originally Posted by drcomet
This personality does exist, although little known to many people. Do you all know who she'll be surprised if I gave you the answer!:D

If you knew the answer why not post it from the start? :confused: I did not know either Andorra had an honorary princess but here is something more on it:

Royalist0007 06-01-2007 04:47 PM

The Seto Kingdom.
How many of you are aware that Estonia,although it is a republic,actually has a native monarchy? The native monarchy is that of the Seto people,whose distinctive culture & language (which is very close to the Estonian language) has been under threat,but there is a plan to revive this.

Here's is a link to the official website of the Seto Kingdom (in Seto only); Seto Kuningriik - Avaleht .

The current King (or Tsootskas valiti (Sootskas)) is Evar Riitsaar.

Here's a link from the B.B.C.'s website depicting some scenes from the Seto Kingdom; BBC NEWS | In pictures: The Seto people, A border people .

Here's another couple of links; Seto language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia & Setos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .


maidmarion 06-03-2007 08:26 AM

This is such great info Royalist0007. I always wonder when I read stories like this how much of these similar stories the world has still yet to discover. Thank You for sharing this as it is truly facinating!

Royalist0007 06-04-2007 04:06 AM

I didn't even know about this myself until I saw this on the BBC's website.I wouldn't be too surprised if there were other native monarchies inside various European republican states today.

Unfortunately,I can't read what is on the Seto Kingdom's official website,as my command of Estonian,let alone Seto,is non-existent.


Karposh 03-16-2010 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by Lalla Meriem (Post 102523)
There is no Andorran royal family. The Principality of Andorra does, however, have 2 Princes. The President of France and the Spanish Bisop of Urgal are the Co-Princes of Andorra.

In 20th century there was at least an attempt to create an Andorran dynasty. A white Russian emigree, Boris Skozyreff seized power and reigned as Boris I of Andorra for a few days or weeks in 1933/34. Recently a book has been published in Spain about his adventure. King/Prince Boris is still a popular legendary figure in Andorra. We do not know if he had any offspring to claim the Andorran throne.

RoyalistRiley 04-01-2010 04:04 AM


Originally Posted by lucien (Post 823295)
The Bishop of Urgel (Spain) and the French President are the Co-Princes of Andorra.

I have always found it odd that the President of France is also a Co-Prince. Isn't the idea of the President holding a royal post sort of going against the republican ideals that modern France is built on?

Duchess 07-27-2010 06:52 AM

Shambhala royals expecting child
Shambhala royals expecting child - -

Duchess 08-11-2010 12:49 PM

Shambhala king, queen have baby in Halifax
i know i started a thread about this back a little while ago but can't seem to find it. anyone that is interested in/practices buddhism might be interested in this:

Shambhala king, queen have baby in Halifax - Front -

Kasumi 08-11-2010 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 1123538)
i know i started a thread about this back a little while ago but can't seem to find it.

Here it is.
Great news, Duchess!:smile: Thank you for the update.

The new princess, who was born at the IWK Health Centre, has been named Drukmo Yeshe Sarasvati Ziji Mukpo, which means Lady Dragon Wisdom. - CBS News

norenxaq 05-04-2011 02:14 AM

the president of france "inherited" his role as a ruler of Andorra from the French kings who were co-rulers before they were overthrown

Kasumi 05-20-2011 04:12 PM

New photos of a daughter of King and Queen of Shambala.
The princess Drukmo Yeshe Sarasvati Ziji Mukpo was born in Canada and is 8 months now.
The photos were taken in April 2011.
Lovely princess
Queen of Shambala (nee princess of Eastern Tibet) with her daughter - courtesy of this blog

Pindo 10-22-2011 11:52 AM

The Principality and the Grand Duchy was also known as Pindo or Pindos, sometimes Pindus and Moglena; Македонски - Пиндско - Македонско кнежевство , Aromanian: Printsipat di la Pind; Greek: Πριγκιπάτο της Πίνδου; Italian: Principato del Pindo) was an autonomous state set up under Italian and later German control in northwest Greece in the regions of Epirus, Thessaly and West Macedonia during World War II. It was proclaimed during the Italian occupation of northern Greece in the summer of 1941 as the fatherland of ethnic Aromanians(Macedon Armn )and the Endopi Makedonci , but was never able to assert itself over the local population until its de facto disbandment in 1944. The capital of the statelet was Metsovo (Aminciu in Aromanian), but the national assembly sat in Trikala.
After a long legal battle by the heirs of Prince Alcibiades, the titles of "Prince of Pindus" and "Duke of Macedonia" were reinstated. HRH Andres Ayala, Prince of Pindus and the Duke of Macedonia, direct descendant of the family Diamandi and the current owner of all titles and honors of the Princely House.
The Princely House of Pindus and Macedonia have no diplomatic relations with the current government and has no territorial ambitions on its former dominions, or seek any recognition of them.
There is no doubt that the Prince of Pindus and the Duke of Macedonia has the rights and Ius honorum majestatis, the right to grant titles of nobility and Honorary Orders of Knighthood of the Dynastic Heritage of Princely and Ducal House.

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