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marian 12-07-2009 06:36 PM

The Origins of Monarchy
 
ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY:flowers:?

Soli Deo Gloria 02-06-2010 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marian (Post 1028227)
ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY:flowers:?

Some people back in the history would answer the question of the origin of monarch with just one word: God.

But from a Biblical (Jewish-Christian) point of wiew I cant find that 100% correct...
In the old testament (first part of the Bible) we can read about the first king of Israel: Saul (Books of Samuel). He became king because the people wanted a king.
God didnt want to give them a king because God didnt think they needed a king, because God was their king and wanted to remain as their king :smile:
But the people said: please give us a king, please give us a king, please give us a king, please, please, please...(and so on)
And finally God said: OK,OK ,OK, I will give you a king... And so they got Saul.

From this we can see two things:
1) God did not think it was nessesary with a (another) king
2) the people knew what a king was... They had probably learned it from other people/countrys "in the neigborhood"
For example: At that time they was back from the slavery in Egypth, and in Egypth there was a king (Pharao), so its clear they had a pretty good picture of what a king was...

On the other hand St Paul (I think) is telling that all authority is from God (someting like that) so its not a easy question...

But the historical answer is more about wealth and high culture coming from a rich agriculture. If you have wealth and a rich agriculture some people can afford to not work... and instead spend time ruling...(or fooling around:whistling:)
So maybe thats the answer...
I mean for example Egypth is an good example of this... rich soils by the Nile - early culture- early kingdom...
I can compare to my own deep frozen poor country where we got our first king(s) around 800 a.c (Vikings!)...

Tilia C. 02-06-2010 06:25 PM

In pre-historic times, when people were living in large family groups or tribes, it became obvious that some people were more skillful and knowledgeable. These people became natural leaders of their group. They passed down their knowledge and skills to the next generation, and of course their own children were in the best position to learn from their parents. So knowledge, which also meant power, was passed down within families. Later on, when the hunter and gatherer societies turned to farming and settled down, land, which also meant power and wealth, was added to the assets of leadership. Over time this concept of leadership became formalized, titles and rules for the succession were invented. In the beginning, leadership had a lot to do with priesthood. Like in Egypt, where the first Pharaohs were able to predict the yearly floods because of their astronomical knowledge. Since science and supernatural beliefs and religion where not separated at the time, these knowledgeable people were seen as divine, children of the gods, or something like it. E. g. the Japanese emperors claim to decent from the goddess Amaterasu. The first Christian King of the Francs was Clovis. Before he went to a certain battle, he promised god that he would be baptized if he won the battle. Well, he did win and became a Christian. Of course he thought that he won with godís help. So the people at the time could only interpret it as godís will that he should be king: to them royalty came from god.
This is a very basic explanation, but I don't happen to be a historian.

Shikha Pal 08-10-2010 12:34 AM

How did Royalty start? and when?
 
I have always been curious to know how and when did Royalty start all over the world?.

Leslie2006 08-10-2010 03:53 AM

Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing it started when man started walking on two legs, and then became more organized as time went on, until you get into the preteen centuries where it changed to someone was chosen as ruler and only his direct descendants could rule after him, ect.

Lumutqueen 08-10-2010 05:04 AM

Are you talking about royalty in general or specific royal families?

BRF family tree all the way back to William the Conquerer
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...yal_Family.JPG

However the first person to claim himself "King of The English" was Offa of Mercia.
Wales came under the crown in 1245, and England and Scotland were united by James 1.
List of English monarchs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

COUNTESS 08-10-2010 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie2006 (Post 1123034)
Don't quote me on this, but I'm guessing it started when man started walking on two legs, and then became more organized as time went on, until you get into the preteen centuries where it changed to someone was chosen as ruler and only his direct descendants could rule after him, ect.

You got it. They had the weapons and created "little fifedoms", then they gathered more men about them to fight the other "little fifedoms" and the winners tooks charge of the losers lands and so on and so forth. Then they sought the church to say that God wanted them to rule and so, "Divine Right" and people had no education and were frightened of the people down the road, so they clung to being "protected" by these strong men. and eventually, the system evolved. The more educated the people, the less likely the awe.

Smart 12-21-2010 11:41 AM

Royalty likely began with the advent of cities in the Levant - such as Byblos. The most powerful commander and leader became "King".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria (Post 1048691)
Some people back in the history would answer the question of the origin of monarch with just one word: God.

But from a Biblical (Jewish-Christian) point of wiew I cant find that 100% correct...
In the old testament (first part of the Bible) we can read about the first king of Israel: Saul (Books of Samuel). He became king because the people wanted a king.
God didnt want to give them a king because God didnt think they needed a king, because God was their king and wanted to remain as their king :smile:
But the people said: please give us a king, please give us a king, please give us a king, please, please, please...(and so on)
And finally God said: OK,OK ,OK, I will give you a king... And so they got Saul.

From this we can see two things:
1) God did not think it was nessesary with a (another) king
2) the people knew what a king was... They had probably learned it from other people/countrys "in the neigborhood"
For example: At that time they was back from the slavery in Egypth, and in Egypth there was a king (Pharao), so its clear they had a pretty good picture of what a king was...

On the other hand St Paul (I think) is telling that all authority is from God (someting like that) so its not a easy question...

But the historical answer is more about wealth and high culture coming from a rich agriculture. If you have wealth and a rich agriculture some people can afford to not work... and instead spend time ruling...(or fooling around:whistling:)
So maybe thats the answer...
I mean for example Egypth is an good example of this... rich soils by the Nile - early culture- early kingdom...
I can compare to my own deep frozen poor country where we got our first king(s) around 800 a.c (Vikings!)...

Considering Jesus' title is haMoshiach (the Anointed One) - a title (Moshiach) given to only Kings and Priests, it's quite clear from the Christian POV there's only one King, all others receive power from him.

janb 12-22-2010 06:02 AM

The King is elected by the people* from the suitable candidates* for life or the life of the dynasty, that's the way it been in Sweden longer than our recorded history.




* definition of the people and needed qualification for suitable candidates have changed over the centuries.

Smart 12-24-2010 11:45 PM

No. Sweden is not an elected Monarchy, and has not been in many centuries. It is hereditary.

janb 12-25-2010 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smart (Post 1180586)
No. Sweden is not an elected Monarchy, and has not been in many centuries. It is hereditary.

Nope. Last elected was Johan XIV he and his decentes was elected for the lifetime of the dynasty. Same have been true for ever dynasty we had since Gustav Vasa before that we elected Kings just for life.
Sweden use the term hereditary Monarcy since the normal use for that term is that each king is elected we changed that during Gustav Vasa.
But still, for example the house of Windsor goes extinct the crown would go to a distant relative, if the House or Bernadotte (or actullay just the Royal family) would go extinct the Crown would revert to the Riksdag to elected a new dyansti (as have happend a few timea since Gustav Vasa).

Edit: missed a ,

Smart 12-25-2010 03:32 PM

I'm pretty sure there are other royals who are closer to the UK Throne than the Bernadottes.

Lumutqueen 12-25-2010 04:01 PM

The Swedish royals start at 202 and end at 229 in the order of succesion to the British throne.
First comes Norway, then Romania, then Yugoslavia, then Russia, then Germany.

IloveCP 08-02-2011 07:37 PM

I read on wiki that the first monarchy ever was Egypt in 3500 BC.

doric44 08-02-2011 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IloveCP (Post 1296867)
I read on wiki that the first monarchy ever was Egypt in 3500 BC.

oh im pretty sure they go back farther than that, as soon as man started to gather into large farming societys from hunter gatherer groups.
they started forming societial hierarchys and kings and royalty formed from those groups

norenxaq 08-03-2011 12:48 AM

recorded history began in Egypt and Sumer about the same time, so which group of kings is older is a matter of debate. as for the institution, it predates the written record

PrincessKaimi 08-03-2011 01:01 AM

Good thread. Sometimes the Scorpion King is credited with being the first king.

I was wondering what the etymology of the English word "king" is. Various words are translated into English as "king" (rex in Latin of course), and I know it's vaguely Germanic - so did it come in with The Saxons?

Grandduchess24 09-19-2011 03:48 PM

Well i guess I could say that they have to be a descendent of the founder of the royal house in some way except the imperial family of japan who claim to be the decedents of a goddess-amaterarsu- and the first emperor of japan.

RubyPrincess168 09-21-2011 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marian (Post 1028227)
ANYONE KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF THE MONARCHY:flowers:?

I'm going to guess that the biggest, scariest barrbarian-bully who was really good with his club decided he was going to be the first leader/monarch.

norenxaq 09-22-2011 03:27 AM

divine origin in some regard is relatively common among royal houses, thus the Japanese are not particularly unique with this


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