Illegitimate Offspring of King Henry I (1068-1135)
Has anyone done much reading and research on the descendants of Henry I's illegitimate offspring?
Particularly Robert of Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester.
From what I have read, Robert was the eldest of Henry's many illegitimate children. When Matilda was Henry's only legitimate surviving child, she engaged in was with her cousin, Steven of Blois, for the crown. Despite many believing that Robert would make a better monarch, he threw his support behind Matilda, thereby ensuring that the crown would pass down to his nephew, Henry II. I would have to think that at the time, his illegitimacy would have made his ascension impossible.
Why? It didn't stop his grandfather from inheriting Normandy and becoming King of Engand (albeit by right of conquest) but only after he had been Duke of Normandy for many years.
I think William's conquest had a lot to do with his claiming the crown, but another deciding factor was his father naming him as heir to the dukedom of Normandy. I do not believe that Henry I acknowledged Robert of Caen as his heir.
I wrote in generalizations when I stated that Robert's illegitimate status may have worked against him but when one considers that the claimants (Matilda, daughter of Henry I; Stephen of Blois, son of Henry's sister) were products of legal unions, then his illegitimacy may have been a blow to any real chance to sit on the throne. Indeed, if memory serves, Stephen had an older brother whose claim was stronger than his but that did not stop Stephen from taking the crown And of course Matilda's gender was the reason why she was not acknowledged throughout the land as Henry's true heir.
So William's acknowledgment by his father as heir to the dukedom, his military prowess and his tenuous claim to the throne (great aunt was a consort to the English king?)all came together when he invaded, won and was crowned King.
King Henry is famed for holding the record for the largest number of acknowledged illegitimate children born to any English king, with the number being around 20 or 25. He had many mistresses, and identifying which mistress is the mother of which child is difficult. His illegitimate offspring for whom there is documentation are:
Ansfride was born c. 1070. She was the wife of Anskill of Seacourt, at Wytham in Berkshire (now Oxfordshire).
Lady Sybilla Corbet of Alcester was born in 1077 in Alcester in Warwickshire. She married Herbert FitzHerbert, son of Herbert 'the Chamberlain' of Winchester and Emma de Blois. She died after 1157 and was also known as Adela (or Lucia) Corbet. Sybil was definitely mother of Sybil and Rainald, possibly also of William and Rohese. Some sources suggest that there was another daughter by this relationship, Gundred, but it appears that she was thought as such because she was a sister of Reginald de Dunstanville but it appears that that was another person of that name who was not related to this family.
Nest ferch Rhys was born about 1073 at Dinefwr Castle, Carmarthenshire, the daughter of Prince Rhys ap Tewdwr of Deheubarth and his wife, Gwladys ferch Rhywallon. She married, in 1095, to Gerald de Windsor (aka Geraldus FitzWalter) son of Walter FitzOther, Constable of Windsor Castle and Keeper of the Forests of Berkshire. She had several other liaisons — including one with Stephen of Cardigan, Constable of Cardigan (1136) — and subsequently other illegitimate children. The date of her death is unknown.
Isabel (Elizabeth) de Beaumont (after 1102 – after 1172), daughter of Robert de Beaumont, sister of Robert de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Leicester. She married Gilbert de Clare, 1st Earl of Pembroke, in 1130. She was also known as Isabella de Meulan.
Through his son, William FitzRobert, 2nd Earl of Gloucester (and wife Hawise de Beaumont), Robert is the grandfather of
Amice, Countess of Hertford
Isabel, Countess of Gloucester and Essex
In this line, he is the ancestor of
the de Clare Earls of Hertford (beginning with the 4th Earl)
the de Braose Barons of Bramber and Gower
the 1st Baron Camoys
and Maredudd ap Rhys, Prince of Deheubarth (Wales)
Through his daughter, Matilda/Maud FitzRobert, Countess of Chester (and husband Ranulph de Gernon, 3rd Earl of Chester), Robert is the grandfather of Maud, Countess of Huntingdon; Ranulph, 6th Earl of Chester; Mabel, Countess of Arundel; Agnes, Countess of Derby and Hawise de Quincy.
In this line, (through Maud) he is the ancestor of:
Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland
John de Balliol, King of Scotland
the Earls of Huntingdon
the Barons Hastings
the Lords of Badenoch (Scotland)
and the Earls of Pembroke (3rd creation)
the Fitzalan Earls of Arundel (beginning with the 6th Earl)
the Barons Percy of Alnwick
the 1st Earl of Westmorland and the Neville family
the 5th Earl of Derby
the Barons Ferrers de Groby
the 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton
and the Barons Ferrers of Chartley
Margaret de Quincy, Countess of Lincoln
the Earls of Hertford (beginning with the 6th Earl)
and Margaret de Audley, Countess of Stafford
Does anyone have a good resource/resources for researching the descendants of Maud FitzRobert - particularly the Bruce descendants & the Earls of Huntingdon descendants.
You might get a start on where to search by googling her name
Robert of Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester, was ancestor only to the 9th Earl. He was John Dunkeld, son of David of Scotland, Earl of Huntingdon, and Maud of Chester.
The 9th Earl was also known as John of Scotia, and he married Elen ferch Llywelyn circa 1222. She was a daughter of Llywelyn the Great, but they had no surviving children and John died childless at the age of 30. The Earldom of Huntingdon and the Earldom of Chester, which he had inherited from his uncle, became extinct in this family at his death.
The Earldom of Chester was purchased by Henry III of England from Ranulph de Blondville's sisters, to whom it reverted after John of Scotia died. Henry III gave the Earldom to his son Edward, and it has remained a royal earldom since 1301, usually given to the heirs-apparent to the English throne.
The Earldom of Huntingdon remained extinct until 1337, when it was recreated for William de Clinton, whose mother was a great-great granddaughter of Henry II. William de Clinton died in 1354, leaving only a daughter. So with his death, the Earldom became extinct again.
The Earldom of Huntingdon has been created seven times, with the seventh creation invested in the Hastings family, which still survives. This Hastings family is descended from Sir Leonard Hastings, a member of the English gentry, who may or may not have been descended from Henry de Hastings and Ada Dunkeld.
Sir Leonard's wife, however, was Alice Camoys, daughter of Thomas, 1st Baron Camoys, and was also a descendant of Robert of Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester.
The present 17th Earl of Huntingdon is William Hastings-Bass.
If you care to PM me with your email address, I will be happy to send you an outline of these descendants to get you started.
After reading the Wikipedia article referenced by lumutqueen's post, I was wondering if anyone could provide some information on William De Tracy. If you click on the link to him from the Henry I page, it gives the article of a knight involved in the Thomas Becket incident who has different parents. The reason I ask is because there seems to be a lot of errors in a family tree that I am often running across on the internet. Here is an example:
Could anyone help fix the mistakes?
What I can tell so far:
1.) Robert 1est earl of Gloucester had a wife named Mabel but not a daughter who married Jordan DeChampernon.
2.) Alice of Normandy was not a child of Henry I and Princess Nest.
There are so many conflicting accounts on the internet, I am unable to find any credible answers so I would be eternally grateful fo any information to help clear this up.
Here are some corrections for you:
Henry I of England and (presumably) Sybilla Corbet had a daughter named Sybilla of Normandy. She married Alexander I of Scotland and became Queen Consort of Scotland, despite being illegitimate. Her marriage, however, was childless and she died in 1122.
Henry did have a daughter with an unidentified mistress named Aline or Alice FitzRoy, but there is no other information about her as far as I know.
He also had a daughter named Adeliza FitzEdith with mistress Edith FitzForne. She could have also been called Alice, but again, there are no further known facts concerning this child.
Henry's only known child with Nest ferch Rhys was named Henry FitzRoy, who was born circa 1103, and was killed in battle circa 1158.
There was never an Alice of Normandy, as far as I know.
Robert of Caen, 1st Earl of Gloucester, did have a wife named Mabel FitzRobert. In keeping with the naming traditions of the time, Mabel would have taken her father's first name as her surname. Since her father's name was Robert FitzHamon, she would have been Mabel FitzRobert. Her father took his surname from his own father, Hamon.
Robert and Mabel are supposed to have had a daughter named Mabel (also FitzRobert, after her father), who married Aubrey de Vere.
The Mabel FitzRobert that married Jordan de Cambernon was the granddaughter of Robert of Caen. She was the daughter of Robert FitzRobert (known as Robert of Ilchester), and Hawise de Redvers, daughter of the 1st Earl of Devon.
This tree shows that William de Tracy, son of Henry I, supposedly married his own half-sister, which is not the case. I think I have some further information on William de Tracy somewhere.. but I'll have to look for it and get back to you. :flowers:
Here is the information I have found for William de Tracy, although I cannot say how accurate it is..
Henry I of England and his mistress, Gieva de Tracy, had one known child named William de Tracy.
The name of William's wife is unknown, but he apparently had a son circa 1134. The son was also named William.
William II de Tracy married a Pomeroy (first name unknown), who was the daughter of Henry de Pomeroy and Rohese FitzHerbert. She was the granddaughter of Sybilla Corbet and her husband, Herbert FitzHerbert.
There is only one known surviving child of this couple. Her name was Rohese de Tracy, and she was born circa 1170 in Devon. She married Henry de Champernowne circa 1169 and bore him two sons, Oliver and John.
Interestingly, the name Champernowne appears to be the anglicized form of de Cambernon. So Henry Champernowne may have been the son of Jordan de Cambernon and Mabel FitzRobert (granddaughter of Robert of Caen). I have seen at least one tree that lists Henry Champernowne as the son of Jordan and Mabel, but I don't know how accurate that is.
Nothing is known of John Champernowne, but Oliver apparently married Eve of Cardigan, who may have been the descendant of Stephen of Cardigan (another lover of Nest ferch Rhys).
Oliver Champernowne and Eve of Cardigan had a son named Henry Champernowne.
Henry Champernowne's wife was Dyonisia, and they had at least two sons, Richard and William Champernowne.
Does anyone have any information on the Tracy line.. as to where it goes because I know that wikipedia had the wrong link for William de Tracy. It clearly states in the entry for the William de Tracy that was linked to Henry's illegit child William that his parents are a John de Sudeley, son of Harold de Mantes who married Grace de Tracey, daughter and heiress of Henri de Tracey, feudal lord of Barnstaple in Devonshire. There are lines that lead to an Eva Tracy eventually who married possibly Warin Bassingbourne; would anyone know anything about these possible descendants? It has been discussed that
Grace is given in all standard sources as the daughter & heiress of William de Tracy of Devonshire.
However, recent research reveals that William de Tracy, d. ca. 1135, was succeeded in his lands circa 1165 or before, by another William de Tracy who was apparently his son.
This second William de Tracy was not Grace's son as commonly claimed even though she had a son with this name. Grace's son, William de Tracy, was an adult by the 1140s, and he seems to have held only the manor of Toddington, co. Gloucester, of the honour of Sudeley.
Chronology suggests that Grace herself was likely of the same generation as King Henry's bastard son, William de Tracy. In any event, she was probably not William's daughter and certainly not his heir.
CP says that Grace, married John de Sudeley, of Sudeley Castle and Toddington, co. Gloucester, 3rd son of Harold de Ewias, lord of Ewias (co. Hereford) and Sudeley, son and heir of Ralph, Earl of Hereford, son of Dreu, Count of the French Vexin, by Godgifu, sister of Edward the Confessor.
The 1st son, Ralph de Sudeley, succeeded his father at Sudeley; the 2nd son, William of Toddington, took his mother's name of Tracy or Tracey; hence Ralph de Sudeley confirmed a gift of his brother William de Tracy to Gloucester Abbey. The direct line of Tracy of Toddington became extinct on the death of Henry (Tracy), 8th Viscount Tracy, in 1797.
CP gives Grace's father as William de Tracy, son of an unknown mother, who left a daughter and heiress by his wife, also unknown.. and this is cited under King Henry's illegitimate children.
But AR says that Grace de Tracy's parentage is unknown.
In any event, I have seen Grace's father as being said to be Henry de Tracy, who held Barnstaple, Devon by 1130, according to 'The
Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families', by Lewis C Loyd, 1999. Loyd does not mention Grace, but puts Henry de Tracy's origin at Tracy, La Manche, Normandy.
But there are some medieval researchers who question whether Grace de Tracy existed at all. Historian Katherine Keats-Rohan says that John de Sudeley married Grace, daughter of William de Tracy, a natural son of King Henry I. She cites D. Bates, "Lord Sudeley's Ancestors: the family of the counts of Amiens, Valois and the Vexin", in "The Sudeleys - Lords of Toddington", The Manorial Society of Great Britain (1987).
The marriage of John and Grace is dated either c.1130/35 or apparently before 1129, when John accounted for a plea of his wife.
While it is correct that John de Sudeley's wife was named Grace, there seems to be no evidence whatsoever that Grace was the daughter of William de Tracy, the illegitimate son of King Henry I of England. Also, there is no evidence that William de Tracy the bastard, was the same person as the William de Tracy who held the barony of Bradninch, Devon.
William de Tracy who held the barony of Bradninch, Devon was succeeded by a second William de Tracy, who was one of the four murderers of Archbishop Thomas a Becket. He in turn was succeeded by a son and heir, Henry de Tracy.
As for Grace, wife of John de Sudeley, the only evidence that suggests she was a Tracy is that her younger son adopted that surname.
Warin de Bassingbourne of Bassingbourne and Meldreth, co. Cambridge was married before 1228 to Eve de Tracy, daughter of Oliver de Tracy, baron of Barnstaple, Devon, by his wife, Eve.
As your quote says, there is no question which Tracy family she belongs to.
Eve de Tracy, wife of Warin de Bassingbourne, comes from the Barnstable Tracys. And even if Grace de Tracy is someday confirmed to also be a member of this Barnstable family, there is still no known link between these Tracys and Henry I's bastard.
Bassingbourne descendants can certainly be traced through the Lords of St. Maur, whose family name eventually morphed into Seymour, and whose current head is the Duke of Somerset. I do not know anything at this time regarding the male-line descent, although the family does appear in records in the 15th century.. perhaps there are some descendants alive today.
Illegitimate heir of King Henry I, Henry Fitzhenry
I am wondering if anyone knows the descendants of Henry FitzHenry, son of King Henry I and Nesta verch Rhys. I show that Henry Fitzhenry had two daughters, Emma Ameblis and Amebilis Fitzhenry. Those names sound a little fishy to me plus the birth date I show for Emma Ameblis is 1040 AD while Henry Fitzhenry was born in 1105 and died in 1157. I also don't know who the mother of Henry Fitzhenry's children was. Ann Shafer
Of the four children Henry left behind, only one produced surviving offspring, and that was Amabilis FitzHenry. His three sons, Robert, Meiler and Morgan, did not leave descendants as far as is known.
Meiler FitzHenry was the eldest surviving son, and he inherited his father's lands in Pembrokeshire. He is believed to have been married twice. His first wife is unknown, but his second wife was a niece of Hugh de Lacy, whom he married circa 1182. He did have a son with his second wife, but the son died prior to Meiler's death circa 1220. He apparently did not leave any issue.
Robert FitzHenry died in Leinster in 1185, without issue. There is no mention of him ever being married.
Morgan FitzHenry's death date is not recorded, but he is believed to have died relatively young.
Amabilis (or Amabel) FitzHenry married Sir Walter de Riddlesford (or Ridlesford) and they were parents to two children:
Sir Walter de Riddlesford, Lord Bray, and Basilie de Riddlesford. Both of these children left descendants.
Lord Bray was married to Annora de Vitre, and they had one known surviving daughter, Emeline, circa 1223. Emeline was married to Stephen de Longespee, son of the 3rd Earl of Salisbury (jure uxoris) and also a grandson of Henry I Beauclerc and his mistress Ida de Tosny.
Emeline and Stephen had two surviving daughters, Ela de Longespee (born 1244), who married Roger la Zouche, Lord of Ashby; and Emeline de Longespee (born 1250), who married Sir Maurice FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 3rd Baron Offaly.
Emeline, Lady Offaly, died without issue.
Ela, Lady Ashby was the mother of Alan la Zouche, 1st Baron la Zouche of Ashby, whose daughter Maud was the wife of Robert de Holland and the mother of 13 children - including Thomas de Holland, 1st Earl of Kent.
Basilie de Riddlesford was the wife of Richard de Cogan. They had one surviving son, Sir John de Cogan, born 1169.
John and his wife Marie de Prendergast, had at least one surviving daughter named Juliana. For a long time it was thought that she was the same Juliana that was the wife of Maurice FitzGerald, 2nd Baron Offaly. She is now not considered to be the same woman, and so as far as I know Basilie's line ends with her son. but the possibility exists that there are further descendants in this line.
Looking for info on Sara SAMUELSDOTTER . . .
Am trying to research Sara Samuelsdotter, born in Sweden 1440, died 1513 in Cumberland, England. She married Wylley (1423-1503 unknown first name), they had a son named Robert. All I can find is her 'parents' were Malcolm III Canmore Dunkeld and St Margaret Atheling (King and Queen of Scotland (1031-1093) As you can see....there is a time gap of about 400 years !
I suspect she was an illegitimate (possible Royal) somehow, some where.
If anyone can help, would be very thankful to hear from you.
I am very interested to find out where you got the information from to confirm that Sara Samueldotter was Robert Wylley of Thorley's mother. I have traced my line back to Robert Wylley and so very interested to find that it might be possible to go even further back...especially if we might be connected to Scottish royalty!
Re: Sara Samuelsdotter/Robert Wylley (don't know about the Thorley name). My info came from ancestry.com. Somewhere in my internet travels have seen her birth year as 1040, so assuming it may possibly be a typo error somewhere along the way. I also feel this could be an illegimate offspring situation. It goes back further than Scottish royalty, into England then to Sweden ! Yes, we would be related but not have any claim to the throne nor its riches ....:lol: drat !! If you discover anything new, please let me know.
from the quote above,
Rohese cannot be the mother of these people - she was born after them......
Rohese of England, born 1114; married William de Tracy (b. 1040 in Normandy, France d. 1110 in Barnstaple, Devon, England)son of Turgisus de Tracy. They married in 1075. They had four children 1)Turgisus II de Tracy b. 1066, 2) Henry de Tracy b. 1068, 3) Gieva de Tracy b. 1068 d. 1100, 4)Henry of Barnstaple Tracy b. 1070 d.1170.
|All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 AM.|
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014