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Warren 04-04-2006 08:21 AM

Heraldry
 

Heraldry

What we call today ‘heraldry’ has evolved from what was ‘armoury’ and is a consequence of the Crusades that began in the eleventh century. The large armies which went to the Holy Land were made up of disparate groups who had to be able to identify themselves to their allies on the battlefield. The development of all-encompassing armour made the need for visible recognition even greater. With the requirement that any symbol or sign had to be represented on medieval armour, in particular a battle shield, the symbols and designs and the rules governing them that we know as heraldry came into being.

As the profusion of symbols grew, emperors, kings, princes, barons and warlords relied upon a select group of people who had the skills and knowledge to recognise the range of distinctive symbols. These men were the heralds, the custodians of the heraldic records and the arbiters of the rules governing their creation and use. The records contained depictions of the symbols or arms along with the technical descriptions, known as blazons in heraldic terminology.

For England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Commonwealth countries the College of Arms keeps the records and makes grants of arms.
For Scotland the Lyon King of Arms is the heraldic authority.

useful links
Wikipedia: Heraldry
College of Arms
Lyon King of Arms

magnik 09-20-2006 12:58 PM

Heraldry
 
Fleur-de-lis
The fleur-de-lis (or "fleur-de-lys"; plural: fleurs-de-lis) is a stylised design of a lily or iris flower much used in heraldry, where it is particularly associated with the French monarchy. The fleur-de-lis remains an unofficial symbol of France (along with the bees and the Napoleonic eagle), but has not been used as an official symbol by the various French republics. The fleur-de-lis is used by various Scouting organisations worldwide as part of their logo.
More here: http://www.heraldica.org/topics/fdl.htm

eborarmorist 07-13-2008 12:02 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Coat of Arms of HRH The Duchess of Gloucester (neé Birgitte van Deurs)
Assigned by Royal Warrant 18 Jul 1973
Image reconstructed from information in Boutell's Heraldry (a 1970's edn.):-
Basic Arms
Marital Arms, with Van Deurs arms 'in pretence' in centre of Duke's arms

Lord Sosnowitz 07-22-2008 02:57 PM

DssG
 
:previous:
Oh, I have never seen such as that british royal arms, where the wife's crest in centre of husbands's arms ! ! ! :eek:

brandon 07-25-2008 05:56 PM

Most elements that exist in heraldry signify something historic about the past or actions of the original holder of the family crest. In the case of the escallop in the Spencer crest, it means one of their ancestors went to the Holy Land. The shell (or escallop) symbolizes the journey by sea that most pilgrims made. Of course they may have also gone to fight in the Crusades. I don't know which of the earliest Spencers did that. It's one of the few things I know about heraldic elements, since I have escallops on my own family crest and I was curious enough to research the background on it.

eborarmorist 07-27-2008 01:03 PM

Arms of HRH the Duchess of Gloucester
 
Quote:

:previous:
Oh, I have never seen such as that british royal arms, where the wife's crest in centre of husbands's arms ! ! ! :eek:
:smile: Yes, it is unusual and I'm not immediately aware of another case. This arrangement does often appear in the heraldry of nobilty and gentry. Although I was vaguely aware of the Duchess's basic arms, it was only when I went back to my note in order to do the graphic that I saw this and was surprised. The reason, I suspect, is that that the Duchess had no brothers - I've not verified this - in which case in English heraldry she is an 'heraldic heiress' capable of transmitting her father's arms to her children. In these cases the custom is for the wife's arms to be borne in the centre of the husband's ('in pretence'), rather than side by side ('impaled' on one shield, or 'accollée' on two shields). The source is reliable as this edition of Boutell (a standard work) was edited by John Brooke-Little, a member of the (English) College of Arms at the time.

Incidentally, thankyou you for all your heraldic posts - kösönöm szépen.

Warren 07-29-2008 01:42 PM

The book Lines of Succession - Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe by Jiri Louda and Michael Maclagan (Orbis Publishing London, 1981) is a must-have for coats of arms (or more correctly, shields) from way back to the present day, as well as extremely detailed lines of descent. If you can get hold of a copy, this book is a treasure-trove and thus highly recommended.

Russophile 11-05-2008 02:40 PM

Heraldry
 
What does the lion on top of the crown in the British Coat of Arms mean?

Warren 11-06-2008 07:57 AM

It's a lion guardant and appears on most Royal arms.

Russophile 11-06-2008 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren (Post 848689)
It's a lion guardant and appears on most Royal arms.

Thanks Warren! :flowers:
Is there a heraldry site somewhere that I could peruse so I don't have to badger you all the time with what their arms mean?


(Unless, of course you LIKE me badgering you. . . ) :biggrin:

Warren 11-07-2008 03:33 AM

Try this Wiki article for starters.
I'll be asking you questions later to see if you have done your homework.

Elspeth 11-07-2008 03:41 AM

Is it "gardant" or "guardant"? Google is coming up with both, and it refers to the fact that the lion is looking at us, so I assume the root is the same as in "regard" rather than "guard." If the heraldic animal is looking back over its shoulder, it's "regardant"; I'm also seeing "reguardant" in a google search but it's a pretty rare spelling.

Since it has all its feet on the ground, I think it's be statant g(u)ardant. My Welsh dragon avatar is passant (which means "walking") but it isn't g(u)ardant because it's looking straight ahead.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/ugala/...ars/klcopy.jpg



Warren's lions are passant g(u)ardant.

Why does Prince Michael have anchors on his coat of arms? I thought he went into the Army, not the Navy.

Russophile 11-07-2008 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren (Post 849058)
Try this Wiki article for starters.
I'll be asking you questions later to see if you have done your homework.

Not if I ask first! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! (You might want to move this to another thread. :biggrin:)

Question 1: Is there an official Officer of the Arms now? Do they keep records of those arms that have been around forever?
Question 2: Who is entitle to bear arms?
Question 3: Did brothers in a house where there was cadency each have an army? Would Prince Williams arms be different by cadency than Harry's?
Question 4: In regards to the colors, is this where Horseracing colors came from? A sort of Heraldry for horses?
Question 5: Can we make up our own Heraldry and would it be legal for us to? (Being Yankees and all. . . )
Thanks Warren! :biggrin:

chaz 11-14-2008 09:04 AM

Polish Herby(Arms)
 
Polish arms are more generic than most and usually represent Clans (of unrelated families). In the case of my families arms Szreniawa it was only awarded to Polanized Lithuanians, many families of those origins bear Szreniawa as their armourials. Szreniawa is always rendered in the same tint jules et argent. The figure in the field of Szreniawa is the Lithuanian Tamga, Kampa(meaning bend in the river) surmounting the helm is a coronet of 5 points signifying hereditary noble status. Tamga are to be seen as figures in the fields of many Polish arms, even of Polish families not of Lithuanian origin. The rest of the elements are more decorative than anything else, except for the maltese cross which signifies an Order. The lion atop the helm is Leon Passant Gardant (passive guardian lion).

chaz 11-24-2008 07:08 AM

Origin of Armourial Bearings
 
Arms were developed in Early Middle Ages probably in Italy. Their origins are military, battle armour made identification of allies and enemies difficult if not impossible. Hereditary Nobles and Knights were awarded Arms by their respective Monarchs later by the King of Arms, a Court official. There are subtle differences between the armourials of Knights (non hereditary nobles)and hereditary nobles. These differences are immediately recognizable to persons aware of them. (These days there are unscrupulous dealers in armourials who will take your money, and send you an arms of a Knight of your surname, that you are not entitled to possess, and will never explain that to you. If you display it,everyone who understands heraldry will know it. The U.S.A. a non Monarchical country, is no doubt, where this practice finds it's most lucrative pickings..

chaz 11-24-2008 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 849320)
Not if I ask first! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! (You might want to move this to another thread. :biggrin:)

Question 1: Is there an official Officer of the Arms now? Do they keep records of those arms that have been around forever?
Question 2: Who is entitle to bear arms?
Question 3: Did brothers in a house where there was cadency each have an army? Would Prince Williams arms be different by cadency than Harry's?
Question 4: In regards to the colors, is this where Horseracing colors came from? A sort of Heraldry for horses?
Question 5: Can we make up our own Heraldry and would it be legal for us to? (Being Yankees and all. . . )
Thanks Warren! :biggrin:

A.to Q1 is yes
Answer to Q. 2 Only those persons in a monarchical state who have received a knighthood or an hereditary
title of nobility may posses Armourials,although lately the practice has been relaxed somewhat to allow certain businesses to design their own and display them.
Q5 In the U.S.A. there are no laws regarding heraldry, but there are laws against using a foreign title for U.S. citizens.
You are free to make a coat of arms,(as long it does not contain obscene language or pictures) but that goes for any public display of obscenity.

chaz 11-24-2008 01:30 PM

Heraldry for female nobles
 
Female arms are diferent from male arms in that,a males arms have a shield as the field,whereas female arms have a lozenge as the field, this can be draped or undraped.

Russophile 11-25-2008 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaz (Post 857924)
Q5 In the U.S.A. there are no laws regarding heraldry, but there are laws against using a foreign title for U.S. citizens.
You are free to make a coat of arms,(as long it does not contain obscene language or pictures) but that goes for any public display of obscenity.

So since Prince Paul Illynskoe was born in the US to an American Mother and Russian father, he's technically NOT able to use his title of Prince?

chaz 11-26-2008 02:05 PM

Q&a
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 858743)
So since Prince Paul Illynskoe was born in the US to an American Mother and Russian father, he's technically NOT able to use his title of Prince?

If he is an American citizen that is true,but I am not sure that Constitutional provision is stringently enforced. And I don't know what penalty would be given.:bang: But if you call yourself Tzaritza Russo they would not do a thing because it is not truly your Title from a foreign land.:whistling:

chaz 11-26-2008 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 849320)
Not if I ask first! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! (You might want to move this to another thread. :biggrin:)

Question 1: Is there an official Officer of the Arms now? Do they keep records of those arms that have been around forever?
Question 2: Who is entitle to bear arms?
Question 3: Did brothers in a house where there was cadency each have an army? Would Prince Williams arms be different by cadency than Harry's?
Question 4: In regards to the colors, is this where Horseracing colors came from? A sort of Heraldry for horses?
Question 5: Can we make up our own Heraldry and would it be legal for us to? (Being Yankees and all. . . )
Thanks Warren! :biggrin:

I do not know if that is the origin of horse racing colors,but it seems logical that it is. Medieval horses were caparisoned with the armourial colors of the Knight or Nobleman who rode said horse .


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