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-   -   Prince of Bourbon-Parma? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f121/prince-of-bourbon-parma-17975.html)

irishthanhy 07-29-2008 01:33 AM

Prince of Bourbon-Parma?
 
I am very confused on this matter, so I'm hoping someone will be able to clear this up.

From my understanding HRH Grand Duke Jean gave up the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for himself and his descendants. I have seen the title applied to HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume (only him, however) occasionally with the note 'since 2001' and I keep wondering why.

Thanks in advance to any one who can answer.

Next Star 08-04-2008 11:42 PM

The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.

USCtrojan 08-05-2008 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Next Star (Post 807312)
The press is not known for doing thorough research espically when it comes to royalty.That is why they address the Herditary Grand Duke as Prince of Bourbon-Parma.If they dug deeper into his family history they would have known his family no longer
holds the title prince/princess of Bourbon-Parma.

I was going to say the exact same thing until I read your post Next Star. Dropped that along time ago.

irishthanhy 08-17-2008 04:44 AM

That's what I figured at first. The 'since 2001' threw me off.

Thanks.

Princess21 08-17-2008 07:02 AM

I was reading information on http://www.nettyroyal.nl/luxembourg1.html website and it said that HRH Grand Duke Jean that on July 28th 1987 he abandoned the titled Prince of Bourbon of Parme.

Harald 10-15-2008 11:04 PM

Well, Grand Duke Henri has granted Guillaume the Title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma when he created Guillaume Hereditary Grand Duke on December 18, 2000.

http://www.gouvernement.lu/salle_presse/actualite/2000/12/18guillaume/index.html

MAfan 10-16-2008 08:45 AM

In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)

Count 10-20-2008 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 838330)
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)

Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!

Harald 11-07-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 838330)
In 1981 Duke Carlo Ugo of Parma considered thew wedding of Henri and Maria Teresa morganatic, so Guillaume has no rights to the throne of Parma, but maybe he and his family conserved the title...also some Princes of Prussia lost theyr right to the throne but continue to hold the title (the firstborn and the secondborn of prince Louis Ferdinand and theyr descendants)

You are indeed correct concerning the rights to the non-existant throne of Parma. Henri is as sovereign head of state, however, free to bestow any title he pleases upon Guillaume. He probably granted Guillaume the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for historic reasons.

In Germany titles are now part of a person's name and therefore cannot be taken away anymore by the head of a (royal or noble) house.

Harald 11-07-2008 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count (Post 840251)
Correct, for the Parma's family rules the wedding has been morganatic.
It is amusing to read this thread if we think that we are talking about Guillaume and the inexistent "throne" of Parma, when he will be, soon or later, Grandduke of Luxembourg!

Well, discussions about succession rights to non-existant thrones are a source of never-ending amusement, aren't they? ;)

firelight 11-24-2008 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess21 (Post 812471)
I was reading information on http://www.nettyroyal.nl/luxembourg1.html website and it said that HRH Grand Duke Jean that on July 28th 1987 he abandoned the titled Prince of Bourbon of Parme.

Why did he do that? What was the benefit in giving up the title? Did he give up the rights to the throne of Parma as well or was it only the title that he stopped using?

I'm a little confused now! So Guillaume does indeed hold the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma because his father bestowed it on him. But he has no right to the 'throne of Parma' because Henri and MT's marriage was considered morganatic. Have I got that straight?

magnik 11-24-2008 12:50 PM

The official titles of the sovereigns of Luxembourg are (in French): Grand Duc de Luxembourg, Duc de Nassau, Comte du Rhine, Comte de Sayn, Königstein, Katzenelnbogen et Diez, Vicomte d'Hammerstein, Seigneur de Mahlberg, Wiesbaden, Idstein, Merenberg, Limbourg et d'Eppstein with the style Altesse Royale (Royal Highness).

The official title of the heir to the throne is: Prince Héréditaire de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The heir to the throne is usually granted the titles Grand Duc Héréditaire de Luxembourg, Prince Héréditaire de Nassau after he has reached the age of 18.
Grand Duke Adolphe's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Grand-Ducale (Grand-Ducal Highness).
Grand Duchess Charlotte's descendants in male lineage bore the titles Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg, Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of July 28th, 1986 Grand Duke Jean renounced the title Prince/Princesse de Bourbon de Parme and adopted the family name Nassau for himself and his family. (As MAfan wrote by the reason was unequal marriage of Henri to MT as CarlosHugo said.)

By Grand-Ducal Decree of September 21st, 1995 is established that the children of the sovereign and the children of the heir to the throne will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Luxembourg with the style Altesse Royale. The other members of the family will bear the title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale. A prince who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comte de Nassau, his wife will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau and their children will bear the title Comte/Comtesse de Nassau. A princess who contracts a marriage without consent will bear the title Comtesse de Nassau.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of November 27th, 2004 the children of Prince Jean and the wife and children of Prince Robert have been granted the personal title Prince/Princesse de Nassau with the style Altesse Royale.
By Grand-Ducal Decree of February 3rd, 2006 the surname of the Grand-Ducal family has been altered from "Nassau" into "de Nassau".
Henri van Oene's Royal Genealogies Page

About
HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Prince of Bourbon-Parma

(Since July 28th, 1986:) HRH Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg
(Since October 7th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Prince Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau
(Since December 18th, 2000:) HRH Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume Jean Joseph Marie Nassau of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma
* Maternité Grande Duchesse Charlotte, Luxembourg, November 11th, 1981
Hereditary Prince of Luxembourg, October 7th, 2000. Created Hereditary Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Hereditary Prince of Nassau, Prince of Bourbon-Parma, December 18th, 2000 http://www.geocities.com/dagtho/luxdecree20001218.html

firelight 11-26-2008 09:55 AM

Magnik, you're a gem! Thank you for your detailed info.

monica17 05-09-2011 06:45 AM

Well, I don't get why the Princes/Princesses of Luxembourg borne out of Grand Duke Henri's 's marriage (and others who married morganatically) are still styled at HRH. Luxemburg is a Grand Duchy, the style should be GDH.

However, since GD Jean was a Prince of Bourbon-Parma in the male line, he and his descendants were entitled to the style HRH if they married an "equal"... for although it ruled a duchy only, the House of Bourbon-Parma was a cadet line of Spanish royals (as well as descended from the short-lived Kings of Etruria). The marriage of Grand Duke Henri was considered morganatic by the late Duke Carlos Hugo, ex head of the house, and his descendants no longer Prince/Princess of Bourbon-Parma, why are they still using the style HRH?

I've read that the Grand Duchy of Hesse also used the style HRH for the reigning grand duke and heir apparent but they aren't descended from kings either....

Don't get me wrong, I like the GDF of Luxembourg very much - and they are descended from my favourite royal couple, Archduchess Maria Amalia of Austria and Duke Ferdinand of Parma - but I'm just confused as to why they are styled HRH.... Duke Adolphe of not of royal lineage (not descended from kings but rather Dukes of Nassau) either but styled as HRH once he became Grand Duke.

Kotroman 08-11-2013 10:36 AM

:previous:
Actually, Adolf, William IV, Marie-Adelaide and Charlotte are all descended in male line from a king - King Adolf of Germany (1255 - 1298). That has nothing to do with their entitlement to the style of Royal Highness, but it does make it incorrect to state that they are not descended from any king in male line :smile:

Anyway, Grand Duke Jean entirely reversed his 1986 decision in 1995, thus resuming the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma (Prince de Bourbon de Parme). Grand Duke Henri thus did not really grant the title to his eldest son in 2000; his sons had already held it.

In fact, Grand Duchess Charlotte created the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma for her husband as a Luxembourgian noble title. You can compare this creation with Queen Beatrix's creation of the title of Prince of Bourbon-Parma in Dutch nobility.

To sum it up: the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and his family are indeed princes(ses) of Bourbon-Parma :smile:


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