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TODOI 01-28-2004 01:24 AM

Future of the Spanish Monarchy
 
is tha Spanish Monarchy stable I was reading a post below and some were saying that the spanish people want to get rid of the Monarchy and the Royal Family are not very well liked, is this true?.... I always thought the spanish Monarchy was one of the most popular ones in Europe

electrivicki 01-29-2004 02:58 PM

¿Popular? :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Ja,ja,ja,ja,please...don't make me laught....

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 03:00 PM

I think that Juan Carlos, Sophia and Felipe have worked very hard to make Spain more stable and to restore the monarchy. I don't think you can discredit all they've done for spain.

sky 01-29-2004 03:40 PM

You are right Firewever, the king and queen have done alot to restore the monarchy. But I have been on many spanish MB adn they seem to be loyal to juan carlos. I think that is why the monarchy is the way it is. Felipe is popular in spain, but it looks like a large number of his fans are females, because he is good looking. I'm not spanish but that is what drew me to him. I dont have a lot of faith that Feilpe's regin will be a long one . I hope i'm very, very wrong.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 05:17 PM

I wrote a little bit about this in the following thread:

http://www.lestribunesroyales.com/forums/i...t=0&#entry89637
Sean

sheeba 01-29-2004 07:24 PM

I think you are right - the newspapers here in the UK echo that same sentiment - are the Spanish avowed monarchists are they just grateful for the leadership the King showed for the transition into a peaceful and prosperous democracy with entry into the EU. Felipes choice of wife will not help the survival of monarchy in my opinion just as much as here in the UK when the Queen dies theres a chance the UK could become a republic unless Charles abdicates in favour of William. All royal institutions will have to face the issue of- in a democracy where supposedly all men are created equal how can a monarchical institution which thus claims that all men are made equal but some are more equal than others remain viable particularly when its the subjects that have to pay for the institution of monarchy. Having said that does anyone know what the role of monarchy is within a united Europe? Does anyone know what their role is within the constitution that never was? Don't expect the republican countries of France and German (the main drivers of an integrated Europe) alongside Greece,Austria and the other republican coutnries which out number monarchic kingdoms to be screaming for the status of Monarchy to be respected. And funnily enough when the futrue crown princes of Europe ascend to the throne might just coincide with when Europe becomes integrated.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 08:04 PM

Ironically, I think monarchies will become even more important to their respective countries in a more intergrated Europe. The institution will provide for national identity and cultural continuity.

No, the monarchies will survive economic integration. They will kind of be like kingdoms within a greater (economic and political) empire (if that makes any sense). Altough they won't have political power at the EU level, they will have quite a bit of power -- cultural and, to a lesser extent, political -- intra-nationally.

S

sheeba 01-29-2004 08:16 PM

Sean, thats an interesting point that you make about national identity. What is National Identity? for example in the Uk - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own cultures and identity and don't see themselves as English, but British and the British Royal Family, funnily enough because of its history is seen as an English Institution not a British Institution thats why you find more republicans in Scotland. I think the same dynamics play out in Spain. And besides with globalization and an increasingly multicultural society that we live -especially in the Uk and France (re - the whole debate on secularity and integration thats playing out across Europe) Spain I believe is a much more homogenous society the Royal Family's begin to look like an outdated institution thats for a minority of the citizens of a particular country. Its not a coincidence that in the UK the most ardent pro Europeans come from Scotland, Wales and tend to also be republicans -a lmost as though they want the EU to rescue them from the institution. I think we have reached intersting times with the increasing strength of the EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well.

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 09:35 PM

Quote:

Sean, thats an interesting point that you make about national identity. What is National Identity?
National idendity comprises of the common language, history, and culture of people residing in a given territory (they may or may not have their own state or independent government). As there is a move towards greater regionalization and harmonization within Europe people will, I think, look to their historical institutions for cultural continuity. It's kind of like looking for comfort in a fast changing world.

Quote:

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own cultures and identity and don't see themselves as English, but British and the British Royal Family,
Now you're confusing the issue. The divide between England and the rest of the UK was there long before the inception of the EU.

Quote:

with globalization and an increasingly multicultural society that we live
If you do your research, you will note that "globalization" (I'm a bit of a global skeptic myself) has increased nationalism and self-determination movements, not decreased it. People will want to hold on to their national identities -- these things don't just die -- and people will, IMO, see a ceremonial monarchy as one of the ways to achieve this. I'm not making an argument for or against monarchy, as I don't think the institution is always a good thing. I am, however, telling you just what I think.

Quote:

Spain I believe is a much more homogenous society the Royal Family's begin to look like an outdated institution thats for a minority of the citizens of a particular country.
Not really a homogenous society. There are ethnic divisions. Or are you not familiar with the Basques? And I don't think that the Spanish people see it as an institution for the minority. After all, the European monarchies are not prebandal dictatorshiops. Indeed, without without Juan Carlos, Spain would be the Serbia of the Iberian Penninsula. If you want to talk about institutions that serve the interests of a minority, look at some of the republics and the allegation and charges of corruption, conflict of interest, and patron-client relationships that they are dogged by (Hmmm. Mexico,Russia, and even the US comes immediately to mind).


Quote:


Its not a coincidence that in the UK the most ardent pro Europeans come from Scotland, Wales and tend to also be republicans -a lmost as though they want the EU to rescue them from the institution.

I think that is too simplistic. It has to do more with being subordinate to England (a hinterland -metropolis relationship) than the monarchy. They see more equality and economic opportunities for them within the EU. It has nothing, IMO, to do with the monarchy (besides the fact that it is an instituion which reminds them of subordinate relationship).

Quote:

I think we have reached intersting times with the increasing strength of the EU the US marching on unilaterally and the whole debate about what do we want from the EU as an institution how to make it more democratic equally applies to monarchy as well.
I don't really understand your statement. For the most part, the European monarchies are the strongest democracies in Europe, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is. Perhaps you can clarify.

A.C.C. 01-29-2004 10:26 PM

I agree Sean. Personally, I just don't see any of the European monarchies ending for a while. I think the EU, if it gets itself together, will only make monarchies across the continent stronger including Spain's. Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons, some more than others.

electrivicki 01-29-2004 10:42 PM

"Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons" :P :P :P :P :P :P

There isn't that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: :innocent: ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Sean.~ 01-29-2004 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 10:42 pm
"Each country is connected to it's monarchy for different reasons" :P  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P

There isn't that "connection" in Spain.

Millions of spaniards hate the royal family,maybe latinoamericans love spanish royals :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent:  :innocent: ...¡HERE WE HATE THEM! :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

Everything I know indicates otherwise. Can you back-up your assertion with some published facts and figures, especially since you purport to speak for millions of Spaniards?

Sean

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 10:51 PM

Please provide proof. Thank you.

Alexandria 01-29-2004 11:03 PM

While this discussion started off with a bit of a negative reply in answer to a sincere question, in subsequent posts it has spun off into a very interesting discussion that applies to not just the Spanish royal family but other royal families in Continental Europe as well.

I would hate for some negative posts by one or two members to result in the closing of this thread and ruining it for everyone else, as I am finding it quite interesting and educational myself.

I would encourage that everyone, whether you agree with the view points being expressed or not, to at least be civil in their replies. And if you disagree with a viewpoint or a fact stated, please feel free to post countering evidence or proof that the information posted is inaccurate. But please do not negate facts because of personal feelings.

electrivicki 01-29-2004 11:10 PM

¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

Fireweaver 01-29-2004 11:15 PM

There is no way that information like that wouldn't be leaked. People fleeing the country for example, other European nations would be less the willing to interact with Spain, etc.

A.C.C. 01-29-2004 11:19 PM

Maybe the Spanish press doesn't spend time creating stories about the Spanish royal family like British tabloids do about the British royals? Anyway, I just think that the Spanish monarchy will not be abolished anytime soon (my opinion).

Alexandria 01-29-2004 11:26 PM

I am not trying to incite another controversial issue, but take for example Iraq under Saddam Hussein's rule. I would certainly say that that was a dictatorship and numerous dissenting opinions about the country and its leader were often published in very credible media sources, whether it be television, radio, newspapers, magazines or online publications.

And certainly even with the consideration that (now King) Juan Carlos was "groomed" by the dictator Fraco as a young adult, I would hardly describe the King as a dictator. So certainly, if dissenting, negative stories about Saddam Hussein could be published, then any negative ones about the King and the rest of the royal family would be, too.

Sean.~ 01-30-2004 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by electrivicki@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:10 pm
¿Proofs?

There isn't freedom of expression in Spain.The spanish monarchy works as a dictadure....

The* british newspapers can opine against british royals...HERE,THAT'S IMPOSIBLE

¿Do you understand me?....my english is bad,but I think you can understand me...

I understand you. If you want to write to me in Spanish (via PM), I can understand that too. I just have a problem with arguments by assertion. You claim that millions of Spaniards hate the monarchy. I can see that being the case with Basque separatists, but not with the rest of Spain (and I follow world politics very closely). Thus perhaps you can provide links to articles, published polls, discussion forums on the subject, etc. in order to back-up your argument.

mucho gracias,

Sean

ps. that's a very interesting sig. you have

Sean.~ 01-30-2004 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.C.C.@Jan 29th, 2004 - 11:19 pm
Maybe the Spanish press doesn't spend time creating stories about the Spanish royal family like British tabloids do about the British royals? Anyway, I just think that the Spanish monarchy will not be abolished anytime soon (my opinion).
I disagree. I think there is a very good possibility of it being abolished after Juan Carlos, particularly if Felipe does not assume his role with gusto. The monarchy is not a strong institution in Spain. It is Juan Carloism' that is strong. This isn't to say that the Spanish people hate the institution.

I think if Felipe had abdicated his rights in order to marry, that may indeed have jeopardized the future of the institution.


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