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Maura724 05-30-2008 10:51 PM

Marriage to Commoners in Denmark
 
I've always had the impression that then-Princess Margrethe's marriage to Henri de Laborde de Monpezat in 1967 was not a problem at all, despite the fact that he wasn't royal. Considering the issues Crown Prince Harald and Sonja Haraldsen had in Norway around the same time, why was this? And why did Margrethe's cousins Prince Ingolf and Prince Christian lose their rights to succession when they later married commoners? Or was Margrethe's and Henri's marriage more of a problem than I've always thought?

MDS 06-09-2008 02:44 PM

Well I've never heard of any problems, but I'm not sure thats he's a complete commoner, I think his family has a castle in france and that his father might be a duke or something. I'm not sure. And besides I think the royal family was happy to get some new blood, since it was difficult finding a suitable prince. I don't know why the others lost their rights.
hope it was useful

jinigirl 06-09-2008 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724 (Post 773563)
I've always had the impression that then-Princess Margrethe's marriage to Henri de Laborde de Monpezat in 1967 was not a problem at all, despite the fact that he wasn't royal. Considering the issues Crown Prince Harald and Sonja Haraldsen had in Norway around the same time, why was this? And why did Margrethe's cousins Prince Ingolf and Prince Christian lose their rights to succession when they later married commoners? Or was Margrethe's and Henri's marriage more of a problem than I've always thought?


I think the main problem with Prince Ingolf and Prince Christian was that both of them married danish girls, and therefor King Frederik didn't give permission.

NotAPretender 06-29-2008 09:08 PM

Can someone elaborate on this? Are there restrictions on Danish royals marrying Danish commoners?

I've found it very odd that the two sons of the Royal House have gone to commoners of other countries for their three brides. I can't imagine Denmark being bereft of lovely, educated, and elegant women who are commoners, and who would be entirely suitable as brides of the Royal house. But if there are such restrictions, then it would explain why an Australian, a British/Chinese woman, and a Frenchwoman have been the choices of the sons of Denmark.

EmpressRouge 06-29-2008 09:28 PM

If memory serves me correctly, when I watched the 20/20 special on "Royals Rule" in 2004, they talked to either a reporter or a regular Dane about CP Frederik marrying an Australian. One lady said that she couldn't imagine the CP marrying a Danish girl because she would seem too familiar to most Danes to be imagined as Crown Princess. I'm not implying anything nor do I know about the marriage laws, but I did find that comment interesting and gives some insight into the Princes marrying foreigners.

Maura724 06-29-2008 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressRouge (Post 793047)
If memory serves me correctly, when I watched the 20/20 special on "Royals Rule" in 2004, they talked to either a reporter or a regular Dane about CP Frederik marrying an Australian. One lady said that she couldn't imagine the CP marrying a Danish girl because she would seem too familiar to most Danes to be imagined as Crown Princess.

That's an interesting thought - it sort of makes sense that maybe it seems "fairer" to native girls if the commoner is foreign.

norwegianne 06-30-2008 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressRouge (Post 793047)
If memory serves me correctly, when I watched the 20/20 special on "Royals Rule" in 2004, they talked to either a reporter or a regular Dane about CP Frederik marrying an Australian. One lady said that she couldn't imagine the CP marrying a Danish girl because she would seem too familiar to most Danes to be imagined as Crown Princess. I'm not implying anything nor do I know about the marriage laws, but I did find that comment interesting and gives some insight into the Princes marrying foreigners.

That's the primary reason I see for why they marry abroad. Given some of the chaos that surrounded Mette-Marit in Norway in the beginning (the father, the old boyfriends, etc) marrying foreigners seems to be a way to put their past a bit further away than just next door.

Of course there have also been Danish princes in the past who married foreigners, and lost their rights to the throne - because the lack of permission from the king. So in the earlier days is was not just the Danish vs. non-Danish argument, but commoner vs. non-commoner as well. (And dependant on what the King felt like :whistling:)

NotAPretender 06-30-2008 08:43 AM

Ah, yes, Mette-Marit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 793108)
That's the primary reason I see for why they marry abroad. Given some of the chaos that surrounded Mette-Marit in Norway in the beginning (the father, the old boyfriends, etc) marrying foreigners seems to be a way to put their past a bit further away than just next door.


Chaos is the right term. That makes perfect sense. Denmark for all its beauty is a small country (population approximately, 5.4MM, about half of metropolitan New York, my hometown) so I can see where it could feel as though too many people know too many other people, for comfort in choosing a mate.

So, if I can recap, it boils down to permission of the king, yes? No?

EmpressRouge 06-30-2008 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAPretender (Post 793187)
So, if I can recap, it boils down to permission of the king, yes? No?

According to that same 20/20 special, they need the permission of parliament, like in the Netherlands. CP Frederik discusses this fact in this interview.
YouTube - 20/20 Royals Rule - CP Fred and CPMary

Martha 06-30-2008 10:33 AM

Some years ago, some royal Danish princes lost their titles because marriage to Commoners. Now is not possible.

norwegianne 06-30-2008 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAPretender (Post 793187)

So, if I can recap, it boils down to permission of the king, yes? No?

Yes.

The Lex Regia (the King's law) from 1665 dictates that no prince of the blood, who is in this realm, or living in our domain, shall marry, or leave the country, or join the service of foreign masters, unless he receives the permission of the King. This part of the law is still valid.

In Tronfølgeloven of 1953, the following additions are added( §5)
For a monarch to marry, he/she needs the permission of the parliament.

If someone in line to the throne marries without the monarch's permission as given in the council of state, the person loses the right to the throne for him/herself and those children born in the marriage and the descendants of these.

The council of State addendum is why the engagements of both Frederik and Joachim came about in the fall, when the council of state were starting up again after the holidays, and why the Danish media were convinced that the engagement of Joachim and Marie would come either before the holidays or once the Parliament reconvened after the holidays. :flowers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha (Post 793226)
Some years ago, some royal Danish princes lost their titles because marriage to Commoners. Now is not possible.

Since the law hasn't changed in that regard since Ingolf and Christian were married, it is still possible. It is unlikely that the monarch will do it to his/her own children, though.

Next Star 07-12-2008 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDS (Post 776880)
Well I've never heard of any problems, but I'm not sure thats he's a complete commoner, I think his family has a castle in france and that his father might be a duke or something. I'm not sure. And besides I think the royal family was happy to get some new blood, since it was difficult finding a suitable prince. I don't know why the others lost their rights.
hope it was useful

Prince Henrik was not born a commoner but a count meaning he was born
noble.Members of the royal must seek permission from the monarch before
marrying.If the a member of the royal family weds without permisssion than
he or she and his or her descents will lose their right to the throne.

Menarue 07-12-2008 04:20 AM

Prince Henriīs father is called Count but his grandfather and other ancestors arenīt Counts. I donīt know when his father was created a Count or by whom.

Next Star 07-12-2008 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarue (Post 798304)
Prince Henriīs father is called Count but his grandfather and other ancestors arenīt Counts. I donīt know when his father was created a Count or by whom.

The Laborde de Monpezat family styled themselves as counrs through their
right to use the title is disputed.The Encyclodephia of Fake and Seeming nobility states that Prince Henrik's ancestor Jean de Laborde recieved royal
letters patent of ennoblement in 1655,conditionnal on his reception as a noble in the Estates of the Province of Beanu where his lands were located.
But the condition was never fulfilled ,as the Estates refused Laborde's petitions in 1703 and again 1707.Although the comital title has been used by the family as if it were a courtsey title traditionally the royal court and French society accepted such titles when geninuely noble families.On the other hand ,since the title was assumed by Henrik's ancestor prior to the twentieth century ,it is possible he was unaware of the family's history was
later scrutinized by genealogists.Henrik's 1996 autoboigraphy acknowledges the unsuccessful ennoblement.
Source Wikipedia

Menarue 07-12-2008 06:39 AM

Very interesting, thank you Next Star.

Royal historian 09-30-2008 09:47 PM

you are right next star and i wonder how can king christian give his consent for the marriage[no offense] cause back in these day the royal marry royal were still in force [exept for england]in europe where anne-marie marry king of greece,benedikte marry a non-reigning german prince and margarethe the heiress marry a count. does this seem equal in the eyes of her swedish grandfather king gustav vi adolf who distitle his sons who marry commoner and refuse to allow the late prince bertile to marry lilian davie .can you check for me what was his reaction on margarethe wedding .did 'nt he had discussion with his daughter ingrid about his pov on the marriage


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