The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   Royal House of Denmark (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/)
-   -   New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants; May 2008 (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/new-titles-for-queen-margrethes-descendants-may-2008-a-16845.html)

Stefan 04-30-2008 09:40 AM

New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants; May 2008
 
Queen Margrethe II. has given her children, children-in-law and grandchildren the addtitional title Count/Countess(Komtesse de Monpezat from today. The Title will be heriditary in the male line

Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Nyheder

norwegianne 04-30-2008 09:52 AM

Interesting news. Thank you, Stefan. :flowers:

Definitely a nice touch for Prince Henrik. Something akin to the Mountbatten-Windsor in the UK.

So, it will be
Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, Count of Monpezat;
Crown Princess Mary of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Christian of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
Princess Isabella of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Joachim of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
[Princess Marie of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat]
Prince Nikolai of Denmark, Count of Monpezat
Prince Felix of Denmark, Count of Monpezat.

It will be hereditary for any child born within a legal marriage.

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

I'm a bit uncertain as to whether it would be tied-in with the title Prince of Denmark, and whether or not the "legal marriage" would need to have the permission of the monarch for the title to continue, or if it could be a supplement to the Counts of Rosenborg...

Madame Royale 04-30-2008 10:10 AM

Now this is something truly splendid.

norwegianne 04-30-2008 10:21 AM

"The Queen and the Prince Consort have considered this for quite some time, and it has led to the belief that it was the right thing to do," Cabinet secretary Henning Fode.

Monpezat til Frederik og Joachim - Danmark

Empress 04-30-2008 10:29 AM

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

morhange 04-30-2008 10:34 AM

Perhaps it is like Count of Rosenberg? Or maybe the title that Nikolai & Felix's children will use, similar to the Dutch Royal Family. For example, say Nikolai has a son (we'll call him Joachim :p ) so his son's title might be

His Excellency Count Joachim of Monpezat

Or something to that effect. Is Count of Rosenberg only given in the event of a morganatic marriage? Seeing as now Denmark has a "commoner" Crown Princess, and former and future commoner princesses, perhaps that title will not be used so much anymore. And probably Joachim and Marie's children will be Princes or Princesses. Why not!

I think Komtesse/Grevinde depend on who has the title, just like the til/af Danmark. Isabella is a born member of the DRF, while Mary is just a spouse of the Crown Prince. Isabella holds the title as a Countess by birth, while her mother holds it as a Countess by marriage. I'm not an expert in Danish language or titles, but I think this is correct.

msleiman 04-30-2008 10:49 AM

So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

betina 04-30-2008 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760307)
Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?


No there is not. A countess is married to af count while a Komtesse is a daughter of a Count and countess.
I havent yet found a english word for Komtesse yet but I think the most proper one would be Lady.

And for the last question yes they will. Their future children will be HH like their two halfbrothers. They are in line to the throne too.

Paty 04-30-2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 760290)

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?

msleiman 04-30-2008 12:33 PM

Count of Monpezat is a Fench Title, not a Danish one right?

Marengo 04-30-2008 01:20 PM

It was a french title (or not a title at all, as the count-claims for Hendrik are shady) but with Queen Margrethe's decision it became a Danish title now.

Stefan 04-30-2008 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress (Post 760307)
Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

GlitteringTiaras 04-30-2008 01:47 PM

Huh:cool: Interesting...Monpezat French now Danish. :ermm:

Oh well you can read more about it here and here

norwegianne 04-30-2008 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msleiman (Post 760315)
So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

Essentially, yes. There is a difference in Danish, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paty (Post 760345)
So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

Nikolai and Felix are covered by Prince Joachim's title as Christian and Isabella are by their father's. :flowers: They are mentioned in the article from Politiken posted by GlitteringTiaras: Frederik og Joachim bliver grever - Politiken.dk
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paty (Post 760345)
And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?

It's not his title (or lack of it) she's passing on, but she's using his surname to create a new title for his descendants. As the title Count of Rosenborg was initially created by using a place-name (Rosenborg Palace) that had connection to the Danish royals, she has chosen to use a surname that has connection to Prince Henrik's descendants, and give them a title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 760383)
They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

Komtesse is actually used in Denmark even after marriage, and also as adults. (kvinder.bt.dk: Vi kan ikke være alene article about Komtesse Camilla and Komtesse Josephine of Rosenborg) :flowers:

Empress 04-30-2008 04:07 PM

Well it seems to me that the word Komtesse is easily translated to Countess, while Grevinde is also translated to Countess, but perhaps in different degrees? I can not imagine that Komtesse means Lady, as it seems like a direct aliteration to the French comtesse and grevinde seems to have some correlation to the duch Gravin which is countess.

crm2317 04-30-2008 05:16 PM

Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions:flowers:

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

I think it is a lovely idea

BeatrixFan 04-30-2008 05:18 PM

What a sweet thing for HM to do! A nice tribute to her husband. Really lovely.

norwegianne 04-30-2008 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crm2317 (Post 760478)
Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions:flowers:

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

crm2317 04-30-2008 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne (Post 760483)
As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

Thanks so much for your answer Norwegianne! I guess if they chose not to comment further we will just have to wait for the next generation and see which titles the receive:flowers:

Adamari 04-30-2008 06:43 PM

It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises