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-   -   Costs and Finances of the Belgian Royal Family (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f29/costs-and-finances-of-the-belgian-royal-family-16470.html)

Marengo 03-27-2008 05:20 AM

Costs and Finances of the Belgian Royal Family
 
According to a senator of N-VA party, the Belgian monarchy costs 28 million a year, which is much higher than the dotation the members receive annualy.
Read an article in Dutch about it here.

The dotations add up to 12 million euros annualy but the 'hidden' costs that are placed at other depatments are 16 million euros. The senator also wants to stop the dotation for Prince Laurent and Princess Astrid.

--

Always curious how people keep going after the costs of a monarchy while it is proven that republics are more expensive and 'make' less money than a monarchy. It is all right if people are republican and such, but IMO the argument of 'costs' is falsifying the debate.

cdm 03-28-2008 06:49 AM

It's the zillionth time the costs of the royal family are discussed, it's getting pretty boring :)
Although I don't agree with everything this politician is saying, he has some good ideas.

I think it would be a good idea to raise the dotation to cover all the costs. And not keep costs hidden in other departments, because that's only good for speculation.

I agree with the idea that only the king and the crown prince should get a dotation. But I think it would only be fair to start with that with the grandchildren of the present king. It's not fair to Astrid and Laurent to give them a dotation and then take it away again and tell them to go find a job.

Marengo 04-19-2008 07:38 AM

Dotations of Members of the Belgian Royal Family under Discussion
 
Parlament decided yesterday (18 april 2008) that of Phillipe and Mathilde's children only Princess Elisabeth will receive a dotation in the future, the others will have to provide an income themselves. Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent can keep there dotation for now, but a discussion about it will be reopened when the King turns 75 or if he dies before that age.

It seems that no senator actually looked at the 'work'that Astrid, Laurent and Claire do on behalf of Belgium, which is much larger than for example the two younger sons of the Queen of the Netherlands. Cutting allowances willcertainly stop such an involvment.

Senator Lambert also asked for the goverment to give an annual sheet with all the costs of the RF. He claims that this already exists in the Netherlands (which is not tru, but the government is working on it).

An article in Dutch here.

TLLK 04-19-2008 11:29 AM

Marengo, are these dotations to Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent meant to cover their expenses when they're on royal duty?

Marengo 05-15-2008 03:09 AM

According to ' Het Laatste Nieuws' the Belgian RF is getting a raise of 5% this year. The budgetted costs are 13.043.000 Euros. Queen Fabiola is getting a raise of 73.000 euros, her dotation is now E 1.5 million a year.

The article in Dutch here.

Marengo 05-23-2008 06:38 AM

According to newspaper 'Het Laatste Nieuws' the dotation of Prince Laurent will be even more under discussion as the senate started an ad hoc advice group who will take a look at the dotations of the royals. Apparently some dotations will be decreased while others will disappear completely.

And no surprise: the Flemish parties will be proposing this while it is expected that the Walloon parties will block it. Newspaper ' de Morgen' calls it a new dilemma like Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde, but that is over the top IMO, unless this issue will paralise Belgian politics for the next decade or so (which won' t happen of course).

Article in Dutch here.

And the original article in Dutch of 'De Morgen' here.

---

What I don' t understand is why the dotation of Prince Laurent is ' in danger' while they do not mention the one of Princess Astrid (who is in the same position as her brother).

norwegianne 05-23-2008 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 755653)
Parlament decided yesterday (18 april 2008) that of Phillipe and Mathilde's children only Princess Elisabeth will receive a dotation in the future, the others will have to provide an income themselves. Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent can keep there dotation for now, but a discussion about it will be reopened when the King turns 75 or if he dies before that age.

It seems to be in line with what's happening in the Norwegian royal house, only they're instituting it themselves - and therefore have a lot more power over the proceedings. :ermm:

crm2317 05-23-2008 08:41 AM

So if Gabriel, Emmanuel and Eleonore do not receive an allowance from the state will they not take part in any royal duties? They will cease to be members of the royal family?

Empress 05-23-2008 11:52 AM

I have a feeling that this is a temporary fix for a government that is in trouble, and they are trying to look good, although I suspect that this move will not make them look good in the least.

I don't see the siblings of Elisabeth being cut out entirely, as she will need help with Royal duties when she gets older. Nope, I just don't see this one as having staying power!

Stefan 05-23-2008 02:05 PM

Perhaps it will also be like in the Netherlands where only the reinging Monachrc and his/her spouse, the former monarch and his/her spouse and the heir and his/her spouse will get an allowance by the State. But the cots of official duties of the other members of the Royal House are covered by the King/Queen.
I think it is fair in the cases of Gabriel, Emmanuel and Eleonore that they know they will not get an allowance from the State. But for Laurent and Astrid it ist not as they had where not prepared for it in the way of their job-choice etc.

kelly9480 05-24-2008 12:11 PM

This might be an instance in which Laurent's frequent bad headlines are causing Parliament to look for a way to ensure that future generations do not cause as many problems -- by forcing them to work.

Marengo 05-24-2008 06:27 PM

I agree, the most sensible thing for the future is to give the reigning couple and the direct heirs + spouses a dotation, and not the other children of the monrachs. I like how the dutch do it, just give the monarch a bit more and let he pay his relatives.
However I do not think that halfway the game you should change the rules. Astrid and Laurent planned their future, education etc. on the fact that they would be representing the RF and not have a normal job, so if they don' t get any money any more what should they do all of a sudden?

Elspeth 05-24-2008 11:52 PM

That's what they did in the UK when they shrank the Civil List a few years ago. Mostly it was a reaction against the younger royals, especially the Queen's younger children and their various spouses, but the Civil List was slashed so that long-term recipients like the Kents, Gloucesters, and Princess Alexandra, who had worked hard all their lives and, in the case of the Duke of Gloucester, given up a career to take on public duties, were all of a sudden cut loose. But the Queen is repaying them herself for continuing to take on public duties, so I assume there was some sort of agreement between her senior people and the Government that these junior royals wouldn't be left high and dry after all these years. The same is probably true of the Queen's younger children, who are continuing to perform public duties as they did while they were still on the Civil List. However, it does send a message to people like Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie that they might have to find other ways of supporting themselves when they get out of college. The chances are that they'll have a lot less involvement in royal life than the Queen's cousins did.

marmi 05-25-2008 02:45 AM

I think its an interesting situation - I can see why they want to cut back but it is very difficult. If you cut the donation to the longer serving royals, do you increase the Queen/King's to recognised their increased expenses? And surely in doing so you'd eliminate the benefit of making the original cut...

Marengo 07-04-2008 04:22 AM

'Het Laatste Nieuws' reports that the royal family had 119 private flights in military airplanes from 2004 to 2007.

Article in Dutch here. The article specified which member had the most private visits in militairy airplanes; if the article is right it seems that the King is 'responsable' for 100 of them.

The costs:

2004: 626.277 euro
2005: 680.626 euro
2006: 470.240 euro
2007: 492.902 euro

Now since the government is responsible for the safety of the king you would suppose that the king is travelling with these airplanes on their advice, so I don't get much of the controversy.

---
As ever at the HLN website the anonimous comments are vitriolic at best.

Marengo 07-04-2008 04:48 AM

The minister defended the RF against attacks from extreme right party Flemish Interest (VB) in parlament. The King needs to be protected, according to the minister. The state has no intention of changing that policy. It also has been a courtesy to the former Queen Consort to allow her 3 private airplane flights a year, again the minister does not feel like changing that either.

The debate: video - Vlaams Belang: 'Koning Albert voortdurend op vakantie'

Since 2005 the princes do not use the military planes for private travels.

And the VB also critisized the king for being on holiday too often, which they based on the high amount of his private flights, mainly to Italy, Spain and France.

LadyLeana 07-04-2008 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdm (Post 747183)
I agree with the idea that only the king and the crown prince should get a dotation. But I think it would only be fair to start with that with the grandchildren of the present king. It's not fair to Astrid and Laurent to give them a dotation and then take it away again and tell them to go find a job.

That is true, but if the Belgian people give them a dotation, they should "work" for it by appearing as official representatives of the RF. Prince Laurent does very little in that way, so it is not very fair to give him any amount of money. If he has anything on his agenda, he hardly ever turns up in time (if he turns up at all). Princess Astrid, on the other hand, still has a rather full agenda, she's always turning up at happenings to represent the RF, and she is also very active in the charity field, so that's not really a problem.

Marengo 08-24-2008 06:47 AM

Prime Minister Leterme told Paris Match that he wants to cut the civil list. The only members that will receive a dotation will be the King and the crownprince!

Article in Dutch here.

CD&V/NV-A are working on a proposal for parliament abou this. It will be difficult though, as many politicians see any change of the monarchy as an attempt to temper with Belgians unity and many will vote against such a change.

johann 08-24-2008 08:41 PM

So, Leterme finally starts to work and comes up with suggestions. Fine. ;) Apparently thereīs former royalty journalist Pol Vandendriessche behind it, who is now a member of the Belgian Senate and announced a “revolutionary bill” some time ago. Nothing wrong with limiting the dotations to the core family and more financial transparency is indeed desirable as all these hidden costs discussions cause some damage. Thatīs why Albert seems to support a reorganisation of the finances. And it is also more or less obvious since years that Astrid and Laurent will loose their dotation when Albert dies.
But in my opinion itīs rather unfair not to grant a payment to retired monarchs or widowed queens. A retired head of state deserves a pension. And since itīs expected that the spouses of the king and the crown prince stop their career to represent the country and also have to agree in division of property in case of divorce a dotation, how small it may be, is due too imo. So far Paola and Mathilde donīt receive a payment. Vandendriessche and co. eagerly refer to the way itīs done in The Netherlands, but to my best knowledge Juliana and Bernhard received a payment too till their death and they also conveniently forget about the dotation for Princess Maxima.
Iīm not surprised that Vandendriessche is already pointing out how difficult it will be and that he starts playing the "the francophones are against it" card, thatīs just the convenient CD&V/NVA way of doing politics lately.

Marengo 09-15-2008 04:17 AM

According to Belgian TV Programme 'Royalty' prince Laurent earns a net amount of 8666,- euros for each workday. Last years his dotation was 312.000 euros for 36 public events. An official event on average lasts 2 hours.

For Filips and Mathilde that came on an average of 6328 euros. They earn 924.000,- euros and have 148 public events.

Article in Dutch here.

stephanievl 09-15-2008 03:33 PM

I really am a big fan of the royal family but for me the dotations should only go to King Alber/Queen Paola, Queen FAbiola and Prince Philippe/princess Mathilde the rest of the royal family should go to work.

We only see prince Laurent a few times in a year and then hearing that he earns 8666€ for each workday of 2 hours is really to much! Even inportant leading business men/women earn less than the prince and these people have to work day in day out with a lot of stress. Nowadays prince Laurent has a very bad realtionship with the press so we harldy see him doing anything.

johann 09-15-2008 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 823679)
According to Belgian TV Programme 'Royalty' prince Laurent earns a net amount of 8666,- euros for each workday. Last years his dotation was 312.000 euros for 36 public events. An official event on average lasts 2 hours.

For Filips and Mathilde that came on an average of 6328 euros. They earn 924.000,- euros and have 148 public events.

Article in Dutch here.

Oh and letīs say Katy Pauwels, the lady who presents Royalty, gets a pay check of 100.000€ per year by VTM (just an estimate of course). Divided by her letīs say 45 appearances on TV, she earns more than 2.200€ per day and Royalty is a magazine of 20 minutes, so her 45 workdays are pretty short. And if we now start calculating the income of top soccer players based only on their number of official soccer matches … cough, cough.
With all due respect for VTM, this calculation is nothing else than a waste of time. Iīm all for implementing more transparency and itīs indeed rather questionable if Astrid, nr. 6 in line of throne, and Laurent, nr. 12 in line of throne, should be founded by the taxpayer. BTW introducing dotations for Astrid and Laurent was justified by the legislative with the fact that the Belgian citizens would not appreciate it if members of the royal family would engage in commercial or political activities. Their dotations are more a compensation for those limits coming with their position rather than a payment for activities. Times changed obviously and now their dotations are a topic of discussion. Nothing wrong with that, but this silly little calculation is adding nothing to the discussion and is just a populist attempt to stir up things again. HLN of course jumps into this discussion, shortens the Royalty stuff to an even more polemic piece of journalism, et voila, here we go again.

Royalty was fair enough to mention though that Philippe and Mathilde carry out far more engagements than those 146 listed in the official agenda and thus earn much less then the mentioned 6.300€ per day - even the ever so critical Jan Van Den Berghe had a very positive remark on Philippe. Of course they did not mention that especially Philippe and Mathildeīs income isnīt theirs alone but also has to cover their huge expenses (like office staff etc.).

LadyLeana 11-15-2008 03:48 PM

And while the nation celebrates the King and the Dynasty, there is a new controversy about the Royal dotations as well. The dotation for the Royal Family will be raised with another 6 % next year, which results in a total of 14 milion Euro. Many politicians are outraged that in times of economic hardship the financials of the royals are raised like that. As a reference: the wages of the average Belgian are raised with a mere 3 to 4%. See here for clip and article in Dutch.

Most politicians agree that the dotations are problematic, and that it would be a nice gesture if the RF would refund the extra money. But the Prime Minister has explained that the Government only executes the law as it was voted in Parliament.

LadyLeana 11-19-2008 03:17 PM

Update on the dotation front: the dotation for the members of the BRF will not be raised with 6 % , following the consumption price index as it always had, but it will be raised like the wages of the working people, with some 3%, following, from now on, the "health index". This has been agreed by the Government, the Palace and the Senate. (See here for article in Dutch). Apparently, the King himself didn't like his raise. Some sources say that the King wants a change in the dotation system himself, because he knows the negative publicity is menacing the image of the royal family.

However, the president of the Senate commission which is supposed to work out some kind of solution for the dotation "problem", Armand De Decker, pointed out that Queen Fabiola, King Albert, Princes Philippe & Laurent and Princess Astrid will always receive a dotation. The system will only be changed for the children of the next King. (See here)

Al_bina 03-10-2009 06:59 PM

http://www.theroyalforums.com/3017-p...%80%A6for-now/
Given this blog entry, I wonder whether Prince Laurent and Princess Astrid can
earn a living on their own. Do they sit on the board of some company? What does Archduke Lorenz do besides making appearance alongside Princess Astrid?

pamk 03-10-2009 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 906001)
http://www.theroyalforums.com/3017-p...%80%A6for-now/
Given this blog entry, I wonder whether Prince Laurent and Princess Astrid can
earn a living on their own. Do they sit on the board of some company? What does Archduke Lorenz do besides making appearance alongside Princess Astrid?

I have always thought that he worked in the banking sector of business -

Al_bina 03-10-2009 10:00 PM

Thanks for the information!:flowers: According Wikipedia, Archduke Lorenz had a successful in the banking sector and "is currently a director of UCB, a global pharmaceutical manufacture". This means that the loss of the state dotations may not hit Princess Astrid's family hard.

LadyLeana 07-02-2009 02:52 PM

The Parliamentary commission which has been studying the system of the dotations has come to a compromise. In the future, only the reigning monarch, the presumed heir to the throne and the surviving spouse of a deceased monarch will receive dotations.
This means that when Philippe succeeds his father, only his eldest daughter Elisabeth - and her spouse whenever she marries - will receive a dotation from the Belgian government. The dotation may not be combined with commercial or other paying functions.

Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent, however, need not fear. They will continue to receive a dotation, despite their place in the succassion. This has been decided because the comission decided it would be rather unfair to just take it away from them, after they have received a dotation for so long. They are also not allowed to combine the dotation with commercial or other paying fuctions.

Article here (dutch)

maria-olivia 07-02-2009 03:23 PM

LadyLeana,
Concerning also the dotations I heard on TV that in the future , the expenses has to be published each year. Do you agree ?

LadyLeana 07-02-2009 03:30 PM

Yes, that's true, they also said that.

On the one hand, I think it's a good idea to make the costs of the Royal family transparent. After all, it happens in other countries as well, and the taxpayers and government have every right to know where the money goes.
On the other hand, once the dotation is given to the Princes, it is their money to spend as they like. And such "transparency" might lead to nitpicking, and witch hunts by anti-royalist parties. If they are going to have to account for every single cent, it could become ugly... Discussions type "Why did they have to give such an expesive gift to that head of state durting that state visit" and "why do they have to buy so many xxxx or yyyyy"... I'm not sure anyone is interested in that, but no doubt it will be turned around into something negative.

I guess we'll just have to see how this turns out.

I do like the solution for the dotation and the limit they put on it. Imagine the Belgian tax payer having to cough up the money to sustain all of the King's grandchildren...
Mostly I'm just happy for Laurent and Astrid, that their dotation isn't just taken away from them.

Empress 07-02-2009 03:35 PM

That's not really fair. Basically they take with one hand and give with another. If Elsabeth chose to go to school and take a paid profession, she would not receive any dotation since she would be paid by her job. I don't think that they should have the right to do that. She would probably continue to represent her country as crown princess until she became queen, but what if she wanted a job other than that? They are basically telling her that she can't...

MAfan 07-02-2009 03:39 PM

I agree with publish the expenses, it's right if they're paid with taxes; but I don't agree with reducing the number of Princes to whom give the dotation.

Al_bina 07-02-2009 05:20 PM

It is rather unfortunate that the Belgian government creates an ambiguous situation regarding dotations.

LadyLeana 07-06-2009 04:42 PM

Apparently, according to a research, 1 out of 3 Belgians thinks all funding of the Royal family must be abolished. For them, the new rules are not strict enough. They wouldn't mind to see the Royal family to be stripped of all their dotations, even the King and Queen.

Reason for this, according to the research, is that more and more Flemish people are Flemish-oriented, and would rather see Belgium split. They see the royal family as a big obstacle for the split. In times of economic hardship, the question also arises where the money goes. The coverage of royal activities is not always what it should be in Belgium, and people do not know what exactly they do or mean for the country.

See here for an article (in Dutch)

Of course most of them don't stop to think a President and Vice-President cost a lot of money as well - possibly even more than the royal family costs the Belgian tax payer right now. They also don't stop to think about the high regard a royal family still enjoys abroad, and the many doors economic missions etc lead by a member of the royal family might open.

Some people are just so narrow-minded...

sgl 07-06-2009 05:10 PM

What are the Belgian Royal Family considered? Are they seen as not being Flemish? Are they seen as outsiders?

It is interesting to hear about how the people themselves regard the royal family. I am an outsider, so of course my opinion isn't valid. I do come from a country without a monarchy, and I must say that financing a president and numerous other politicians is incredibly expensive. Elections are also expensive, and politicians don't bring in tourism revenue nor do they foster a sense of cultural pride (usually it is the opposite). Have the BRF released a statement regarding this research?

Marengo 07-06-2009 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLeana (Post 962548)
Apparently, according to a research, 1 out of 3 Belgians thinks all funding of the Royal family must be abolished. For them, the new rules are not strict enough. They wouldn't mind to see the Royal family to be stripped of all their dotations, even the King and Queen.

Reason for this, according to the research, is that more and more Flemish people are Flemish-oriented, and would rather see Belgium split. They see the royal family as a big obstacle for the split. In times of economic hardship, the question also arises where the money goes. The coverage of royal activities is not always what it should be in Belgium, and people do not know what exactly they do or mean for the country.

See here for an article (in Dutch)

Of course most of them don't stop to think a President and Vice-President cost a lot of money as well - possibly even more than the royal family costs the Belgian tax payer right now. They also don't stop to think about the high regard a royal family still enjoys abroad, and the many doors economic missions etc lead by a member of the royal family might open.

Some people are just so narrow-minded...

Indeed, a lot of angry, bored people around as everywhere I suppose.
And they don't care to use their brain and think that a republic costs more money, no instead they are just jealous of anybody who earns more money, who is more succesful, who has a bigger car etc and they ang, nag, nag, nag and nag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgl
What are the Belgian Royal Family considered? Are they seen as not being Flemish? Are they seen as outsiders?

Not as outsiders but definately not as Flemish either.

sgl 07-06-2009 05:56 PM

So are they seen as being more French than Belgian? I am curious as to why the public doesn't feel they are "of the people". Is this due to a language issue, or have laws been passed that favor the French-speaking Belgians more than the Flemish Belgians?

MAfan 07-06-2009 05:59 PM

But I'm sure that when a Belgian Prince or King would behave and speak as a "true" Flemish, the French-speaking belgians would soon begin to protest in the same way Flemishes are doing now and since long time...

maria-olivia 07-06-2009 06:08 PM

LadyLeana, (wonderful avatar) , you are right some people are just narrow minded.
When The King of the Queen or other members of RF are visiting the flemish part of Belgium they don't need special bodyguards , but are respectfully and warmly welcomed.
The whole country regret that the minor royals do not have a payed job.; times are difficult for everybody nowadays!

LadyLeana 07-07-2009 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgl (Post 962592)
So are they seen as being more French than Belgian? I am curious as to why the public doesn't feel they are "of the people". Is this due to a language issue, or have laws been passed that favor the French-speaking Belgians more than the Flemish Belgians?

I certainly think many Flemish people feel like that, but the language politics is very complex, and also not really a subject matter here. When people have to give and take in a compromise situation, sometimes they only focus on what the other is taking, and not what they are getting in return. Unfortunately this has been the tendency amongst the media and political parties the last few years.

I don't think it's anything against the royal family as persons, more against what they represent - Belgium. On top of that, we have a Queen who doesn't speak Dutch very well, and our Princes and Princesses are not that much better. Not when you compare Maxima to Mathilde, for instance.

But maria-olivia is also right: whenever the royal family is on a visit somewhere in Flanders, they are welcomed very warmly. Don't forget, if 1 out of 3 Belgians is against the Royal family (because that's basically what it's about, not really the money), this means 2 out of 3 are still in favour.

Also, I have no idea how representative the study is, really. You only read about the generalizations, not the absolute figures. Besides, I wonder if anyone thought of saying this, but the current cost of the dotations for the royal family comes down to about 1 EUR per Belgian (not taxpayer, that would probably go up to 1,5 or 2 EUR) per year. How is this expensive, exactly?

sgl 07-07-2009 12:29 PM

When you break down the figures, 1 EUR per person is not at all unreasonable. If Belgium did away with the monarchy, people would still complain about the costs of government. It is inevitable, and people always find something to complain about.

Besides, the people who conducted the study would be out of a job if people weren't complaining about something.

IslandDweller 07-19-2009 10:38 PM

I hope it's true that 2 out of 3 Belgians support the monarchy. Other surveys seem less promising. I think the Belgian royals are great!! I hope they're around for a long time. Vive la Reine Elisabeth!!

Is it known if Astrid and Laurent have to pay staff and other expenses related to their duties out of their incomes? If so, then they're really not so well off. Princess Benedikte of Denmark receives a much lesser allowance, and it is expressly given to her to cover the travel and other things necessary to fulfilling her official obligations.

Marengo 11-17-2010 07:02 AM

In the budget for 2011 most members of the royal family will receive less money. The king's budget will stay the same but the dotation for Queen Fabiola, prince Filip, princess Astrid and prince Laurent will decrease with 1.4%. For Fabiola that will mean 20.000 euros less, for Filip 13.000 euros less and for Astrid and Laurent both 4000 euros less. This was already decided in 2009 btw.

source: het gazet van antwerpen

Marengo 03-30-2011 05:20 AM

According to the late king Boudouin started a fund to help his nieces and nephews (the Belgian, Luxembourg and Mora- ones) financially . The children of his half siblings were excluded from the fund. Just efore his death, the king started the Foundation Astrida in March 1992.

Boudewijn richtte fonds op 'om neven en nichten te helpen' - Binnenland - De Morgen

The fund was created to help his nieces and nephews to develop themselves in religious, artistic, scientific and pedalogical matters. Another purpose was for them to get settled in life.

The fund had 1.37 million euros. Most of the fund has been spent on travelling costs though.

MAfan 03-30-2011 05:00 PM

Are the children of his half-siblings specifically excluded, or are they excluded just because they were not born yet (as only Princess Esmeralda has children, born in 1998 and 2001, years after Baudouin's death)?

Esmerelda 03-30-2011 05:46 PM

Mora? Is that Queen Fabiola's side of the family? That was kind of the King. I'd also like to know about the exclusion of his half-siblings' children. I guess one way to find out would be to see if he had other nieces and nephews born after his death and whether they are eligible for funds.

Marengo 03-31-2011 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAfan (Post 1222811)
Are the children of his half-siblings specifically excluded, or are they excluded just because they were not born yet (as only Princess Esmeralda has children, born in 1998 and 2001, years after Baudouin's death)?

The article implied that they were excluded due to the old Lilian vs. de rest vendette. But your 2nd explanation seems more likely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esmerelda
Mora? Is that Queen Fabiola's side of the family? That was kind of the King. I'd also like to know about the exclusion of his half-siblings' children. I guess one way to find out would be to see if he had other nieces and nephews born after his death and whether they are eligible for funds.

Yes, it is Queen Fabiola's nieces and nephews. She was/is close to (some of) them.

tommy100 02-15-2013 09:04 AM

Princess Astrid offers to justify her allowance < Belgian news | Expatica Belgium

Apparently Princess Astrid has said she would happily provide more clarity on how she spends her public money.

Princess Astrid told 'Royalty' that she understood demands for checks and transparency. By offering to provide greater clarity the princess hopes to remove distrust about the allowance system.
The Princess Astrid receives some 320,000 euros (273,000 pounds sterling) annually from the public purse. She insists that the money goes to good causes and causes that benefit well-being in Belgium.

lucien 02-15-2013 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy100 (Post 1517347)
Princess Astrid offers to justify her allowance < Belgian news | Expatica Belgium

Apparently Princess Astrid has said she would happily provide more clarity on how she spends her public money.

Princess Astrid told 'Royalty' that she understood demands for checks and transparency. By offering to provide greater clarity the princess hopes to remove distrust about the allowance system.
The Princess Astrid receives some 320,000 euros (273,000 pounds sterling) annually from the public purse. She insists that the money goes to good causes and causes that benefit well-being in Belgium.

It would also be kind if there was to be more clarity in the wages of the THREE goverrnments in a country 3/4 the size of mine...One government for Wallone-,one Flemish and one for Brussels...PLUS a national government...?I mean...is it all for nothing,all volunteerwork by these funny people.?..I don't think so.....Except Di Rupo btw..I haven't really seen one other in the four governements that is worthwhile...Total and utter waste of money...Compared to that the apanages of the Belgian RF is total peanuts...Allthough..I am all for stopping the apanages for Laurent and Astrid,only for Filip & Mathilde and TM,no freeloading by anyone...I think the Dutch RF is exemplary in that and it wouldn't hurt at the neighbours either...Mind you,nothing against Astrid,great woman,nor against Laurent...who I think adds some colour in the couleur locale and is I think a nice man at heart with a wonderfull wife & family!...Still....

maria-olivia 02-15-2013 02:14 PM

Lucien, I agree with you ,your Royals the unfortunate Prince Friso , Prince Constantijn and the 4 Van Vollenhoven are working.

In Belgium I heard that members of RF may not work to protect the RF. Our RF and their staff have middle-age reactions. Princesses Mathilde and Claire were working before their engagement !

Marengo 06-05-2013 02:14 AM

Elio di Rupo proposed that the RF has to start paying income tax:

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuw...4_Royals_taxes

Al_bina 06-05-2013 11:24 AM

Is it income tax on government allowances each member gets? If yes, I am not surprised with this development.

cdm 06-06-2013 01:05 PM

I think the changes are fair for a monarchy in this day and age.

More info from standaard.be: (google translate)

Especially Queen Fabiola must return as the royal endowments be reformed. The majority parties reached an agreement Wednesday on the reform in the Implementation Committee for the State Reform. The number of beneficiaries is reduced, and the members of the royal family must now also pay taxes. Monday already got the lines of reform known. Now, more specific calculations.

In the future, the siblings of the heir to the throne no longer entitled to a grant. That's just not reserved for the heir apparent, the widow or widower of the deceased monarch or the heir to the throne, the king who prematurely functions dough and his surviving spouse (o) t (e).

The addition is in the future of two parts: one part 'fee', and another part 'operational and personnel. The fee must be paid personal income. The members of the royal family must now also pay VAT and excise duties. This means that the net amount of allocations to all members of the royal family fall.

Who gets what?

The addition of Queen Fabiola, the widow of King Baudouin, early this year, after the hoopla surrounding its foundation, been reduced to no more than two-thirds of the grant from the Crown Prince. These arrangements are maintained, according to the statement of the Prime Minister. But the Compliance Committee now proceeds: after 10 years of widowhood, that amount is reduced to half of the grant from the Crown Prince. Heard that news agency Belga from multiple sources.
In addition, part of the amount - at the level of the wages of the state board or 90,000 euros - subject to tax on personal meaning that is due. The rest is considered as compensation for operating and other expenses.
Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent get a grant today and will retain that as a transitional measure. But in their case, they have to pay on the part of their allocation corresponding to the income of a state council taxes.
Crown Prince Philippe, who receives a higher allocation, will have to pay personal income tax on that portion of its endowment that twice the fee amounts to a state board.
This reform of the allocations of the royal family is the most important since the creation of the Belgian monarchy, says Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo in a statement. The reform makes the system more modern and transparent, the government said



King Albert Is paid by the "civil list", which is now 11.5 million.
Queen Fabiola
371,000 euros for operating costs
A (taxable) salary of 90,000 euros, which in the region of 36. 000 taxes goes off.
Prince Philippe
743,000 euros for operating costs
A (taxable) salary of 180,000 euros, which is in the region of 73. 000 taxes goes off.
Prince Laurent
217,000 euros for operating costs
A taxable salary of 90,000 euros, and why to go off charges 33,000 euros.
Princess Astrid
230,000 euros for operating costs
A taxable salary of 90,000 euros. How much it goes off depends on the financial situation of her husband Lorenz.
From now on the queen and the princes also pay VAT and taxes on all purchases.

leidi 06-08-2013 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdm
the king who prematurely functions dough and his surviving spouse (o) t (e).

this smells of abdication IMO

And it is good that they start paying taxes, it will make them look "cleaner" in the eyes of the people and will strenghten the monarchy.

tommy100 07-05-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 1560293)
this smells of abdication IMO

And it is good that they start paying taxes, it will make them look "cleaner" in the eyes of the people and will strenghten the monarchy.

Well you were right, I'm sure these new measures were put in place with at least a small inkling that Albert wanted to abdicate at some point.
What will Albert and Paola get after the abdication?
Will Astrid and Laurent keep their donations?

CSENYC 07-21-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 746658)
Always curious how people keep going after the costs of a monarchy while it is proven that republics are more expensive and 'make' less money than a monarchy. It is all right if people are republican and such, but IMO the argument of 'costs' is falsifying the debate.

Republican governments do cost plenty, but at least only the President and Vice President are paid salaries. The rest of their families don't get a salary, although I believe that the First Lady and Second Lady (the spouses of the President and Vice President) have staffs.

(I have no idea why the spouse of the Vice President needs a staff.)

In short, if only the person holding the office can get a salary in the US, I don't think that it's unreasonable for only the King to get a salary, but not the rest of the family.

amaryllus 07-21-2013 08:00 PM

most other senior royal family members do their share ,more or less, to represent the families in various ways...patronages, over seas royal events and likely other things. if this is their job, of course they need to be paid and they have to maintain a certain quality of up keep to these things appropriately.

CSENYC 07-21-2013 08:36 PM

But isn't the King paid enough to support his family?

If not, that's a problem.

However, especially in these days of tight budgets, kings and queens need to be super-sensitive about the concerns of taxpayers.

I'm a big supporter of monarchy in general, since it gives countries non-partisan heads of state and takes politics out of government where politics doesn't belong, but I'm not a supporter of just paying people to live lavishly off of tax dollars, and I don't see why anyone should support doing so.

amaryllus 07-21-2013 08:50 PM

paying all the senior working royals enough to pay their servants, keep their usually old manors livable, travel/clothing/possibly entertaining expenses, appropriate schooling for the children as well as doing those things for his own family out of his own pocket would not be feasible for most monarchs in this day and age. that's why some paring down has occurred and is occurring so the burden on the government and taxpayers is not so heavy.

tommy100 07-26-2013 05:29 PM

Regering komt met gedragscode koninklijke familie

The members of the royal family have a code of conduct in exchange for keeping their endowment. This is contained in a bill from the federal government that regulates their income. The code is inspired by the conditions that Prince Laurent was imposed after a controversial trip in Congo.

Hopefully no more overseas trips for Laurent or he may end up with nothing!

NGalitzine 07-26-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSENYC (Post 1578150)
Republican governments do cost plenty, but at least only the President and Vice President are paid salaries. The rest of their families don't get a salary, although I believe that the First Lady and Second Lady (the spouses of the President and Vice President) have staffs.

(I have no idea why the spouse of the Vice President needs a staff.)

In short, if only the person holding the office can get a salary in the US, I don't think that it's unreasonable for only the King to get a salary, but not the rest of the family.

In a republic the children and siblings of the President and Vice President are not expected to undertake official engagements and represent the nation in any way. In a monarchy the children and siblings of the monarch are expected to undertake official engagements and represent the nation, and it is a lifetime committment, which is why state allowances are applicable,
In a republic such as the US you give salaries to the President and Vice President while in office, as well as allowances for their wives offices. After they retire you continue to pay pensions to the former Presidents and Vice Presidents, as well as payng for their staff, office expenses and security, Right now you are paying for 4 living ex Presidents and I don't know how many former VPs but the costs are considerable. I remember CNN mentioning that the costs for Clinton runs into the millions. I am not begrudging them their expenses after serving the nation, just pointing out that there are costs in republic that people do not consider when comparing to the costs of maintaining a working royal family.

cepe 07-26-2013 06:58 PM

I apologise in advance - but Prince Lauriant seems to have blotted his copybook. Can someone explain in simple terms what he has done - or have I misunderstood. Big thank you as I am being lazy in not going back over many posts.

tommy100 07-26-2013 08:44 PM

Without going in too much detail:

Laurent was involved in a corruption scandal that reached court when it was said money from the Royal Navy was used to renovate his holiday home. It was reported that his father (or Court staff) effecitvely banned Laurent from the Royal court for several months after this

He visited the Congo without prior permission which was controversial given Belgium's past there

He is said to enjoy playing the 'I'm royal' card for example demanding free upgrades on Belgian airlines and harrasing airline staff when they question this

He is known to be on good terms with the woman who claims to be the King's illegitate daughter

I've read reports that he is not all that bright, once apparently, needing to be told the difference from the UN and US

He led, according to some reports, a play boy prince style life when he was young

Overall not a few big scandals really but lots and lots of little ones all of the time

leidi 07-27-2013 02:51 AM

I think the only reason why Laurent hasn't been cut off (economically speaking) from the family is the children.

If I was Philippe I'd make sure Claire was the one managing their allowance, Laurent isn't the most trustworthy guy in the world.

Also, while Albert was quite wild in his youth (and so was Paola) he never ever betrayed Baudouin's trust in his royal duties, he was always staunchly loyal to his brother, that's something I don't see Laurent doing even if Philippe has defended him in public ("he's my brother and will always be my brother first and foremost").

It's better to find him something to do before he starts compromising the royal house again.

maria-olivia 07-27-2013 05:49 AM

Now the Government wants more control about the Royals except of course for King Philippe.
It concerns namely their foreign travels , who they will met there , about their air planes costs , foundations etc.
It will have a direct repercussion on their dotations and Prince Laurent is not free anymore as before.

Marengo 11-28-2014 04:50 PM

The costs of the RF has decreased with 2.7 million euros:

Quote:

The institution of monarchy in Belgium will cost the Belgian taxpayer 36 million euros next year. The largest share of this amount is spent on policing and securing the safety of our royal family, the Saxe-Coburg and Gothas. 2.7 million euros less is being spent on the institution of monarchy next year.
Complete article here.

I suppose that the reduction of Fabiolas allowance does have benefits ;)

Marengo 12-04-2014 08:22 AM

According to a professor from ghent, the Belgian RF is the3rd most expensive of Europe, 1 million euros cheaper than the Dutch.

Koningshuis derde duurste in Europa - Het Nieuwsblad

The article already claims that the Spanish and Lux. budgets are less transparent.... but somehow they forget to mention that this makes such lists useless as it is comparing apples to oranges. It is impossible that the Belgian monarchy is more expensive than the Spanish one.

Mbruno 12-04-2014 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 1725879)
According to a professor from ghent, the Belgian RF is the3rd most expensive of Europe, 1 million euros cheaper than the Dutch.

Koningshuis derde duurste in Europa - Het Nieuwsblad

The article already claims that the Spanish and Lux. budgets are less transparent.... but somehow they forget to mention that this makes such lists useless as it is comparing apples to oranges. It is impossible that the Belgian monarchy is more expensive than the Spanish one.

Why do you say "it is impossible" ? Most lists I've seen put the Spanish monarchy as one of the least expensive in Europe.

Al_bina 12-04-2014 03:40 PM

The Spanish monarchy can not afford to be expensive. Spain is broke.
I am not sure about economic situation in Belgium. If the royal allowances start putting a strain on the Belgian budget, lawmakers will not hesitate to reduce them.

*Mara* 12-04-2014 07:44 PM

These studies are only reasonable if you take the same facts and figures as a basis for comparison. And this is not possible since some monarchies are way more transparent than others. And usually the more transparent monarchies are "awarded" with the most expensive label than.
The Belgian numbers for ex include the costs for security [15 m €] as well as the maintenance of the state owned castles in Brussels and Laken. These components aren’t part of the Dutch budget though. So the comparison between the Dutch and the Belgian numbers is already inadequate. Yet the Belgian media claims that the Belgian RF costs 39 m € and the Dutch 40 m€. They don’t bother the public with details and neither does Prof. Matthijs when he presents his short statements in front of the cameras. ;)



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1725892)
Why do you say "it is impossible" ? Most lists I've seen put the Spanish monarchy as one of the least expensive in Europe.

IIRC these lists don’t include security costs for Spain. I have no idea how it works there but I guess their security costs are at least as high as the Belgian ones, if not much higher. Not their fault and one can argue if security costs should be included at all.
One of Matthijs’ studies from 2012 cites Spanish newspapers reports and according to those the real costs for the Spanish monarchy are around 60 or 70 million Euros. No idea how accurate these reports are though.

Duc_et_Pair 02-20-2016 05:06 AM

There is some nagging about costs, see: Much Ado About ... Travel Costs | The Royal Forums
What a bargain the Belgians have. 143.000 Euro? A look over the borders to their northern neighbours, the Netherlands, learns that in their State Budget, for "The King", is reserved 900.000 Euro for flying costs. See info ("luchtvaartuigen").

Really, cheaper than the Belgians is impossible, or the King should fly EasyJet.

tommy100 02-20-2016 05:22 AM

Why nag about the costs, if the King can not fly on normal flights then there is no choice but to use military flights. Therefore, if anything, shouldn't the argument be about whether the King flies on normal flights or not?
However, I suspect no politician wants to be the one to say the King should compromise security by flying on normal flights, so instead they will moan about the costs until the King himself decides to use normal flights.

Muhler 02-20-2016 05:28 AM

:previous: Even if the King grew wings, they would complain about the cost of keeping his feathers clean.

Duc_et_Pair 02-20-2016 05:43 AM

It is just the favourite hobby of some Belgian politicians. I find it a bit pauvre to see His Majesty The King of the Belgians leaving a grey Hercules or something from the Belgian Airforce. Even the Prince of tiny little Monaco has his own aeroplane: picture.

leidi 02-20-2016 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 1725892)
Why do you say "it is impossible" ? Most lists I've seen put the Spanish monarchy as one of the least expensive in Europe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_bina (Post 1725995)
The Spanish monarchy can not afford to be expensive. Spain is broke.
I am not sure about economic situation in Belgium. If the royal allowances start putting a strain on the Belgian budget, lawmakers will not hesitate to reduce them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Mara* (Post 1726125)
These studies are only reasonable if you take the same facts and figures as a basis for comparison. And this is not possible since some monarchies are way more transparent than others. And usually the more transparent monarchies are "awarded" with the most expensive label than.
The Belgian numbers for ex include the costs for security [15 m €] as well as the maintenance of the state owned castles in Brussels and Laken. These components aren’t part of the Dutch budget though. So the comparison between the Dutch and the Belgian numbers is already inadequate. Yet the Belgian media claims that the Belgian RF costs 39 m € and the Dutch 40 m€. They don’t bother the public with details and neither does Prof. Matthijs when he presents his short statements in front of the cameras. ;)



IIRC these lists don’t include security costs for Spain. I have no idea how it works there but I guess their security costs are at least as high as the Belgian ones, if not much higher. Not their fault and one can argue if security costs should be included at all.
One of Matthijs’ studies from 2012 cites Spanish newspapers reports and according to those the real costs for the Spanish monarchy are around 60 or 70 million Euros. No idea how accurate these reports are though.

Spain's monarchy has always been VERY shady in economic terms, Juan Carlos came to the country virtually broke and now has a great fortune, no one knows how much or where did it come from, also there is never a true budget shown from the Royal House, you don't know how much goes to whom or where, they don't include the money paid to maintain the castles & royal sites (most of which can't be visited and are only open to the RF), plus the press doesn't talk about any of it, unlike the Belgian press, the Spanish media tends to self-censor when it comes to the RF, no bad words towards the Royal couple, just endless praise, legacy from Franco's NO-DO :ermm:

Duc_et_Pair 02-20-2016 04:02 PM

Spain is by no means the most inexpensive monarchy. Look to the Royal Palace in the city of Madrid, to the Pardo Palace, the site of La Zarzuela, the Palace of El Escorial, look to the grand display of military splendour on several days, look to the massive motorcades and escortes and the continue personal protecion, look to the flying in that big and wide country. This "cheap" budget is only possible because they are hiding all possible posts on diverse budgets. The costs for State Visits will be in the Budget for Foreign Affairs, for the military display it will be in the Budget for Defense, for the transportation it will be in the Transport & Infrastructure Department, etc. etc.

It was exactly like that in almost all monarchies. Some monarchies, like Denmark and the Netherlands have now assembled all costs made for the functioning of the monarchy, so gaining a more complete, transparant and accountable overview. Yes, then suddenly the one monarchy is "the most expensive" and the other "the most inexpensive" (Spain) but a simple look to the residences, the infrastructure, the staffing, the transportation, the security, the offices, the archives, etc. will learn that it is impossible that Spain is so much cheaper than other monarchies. Comparing royal budgets only makes sense when the budgets contain the same posts.

leidi 02-20-2016 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1865097)
Spain is by no means the most inexpensive monarchy. Look to the Royal Palace in the city of Madrid, to the Pardo Palace, the site of La Zarzuela, the Palace of El Escorial, look to the grand display of military splendour on several days, look to the massive motorcades and escortes and the continue personal protecion, look to the flying in that big and wide country. This "cheap" budget is only possible because they are hiding all possible posts on diverse budgets. The costs for State Visits will be in the Budget for Foreign Affairs, for the military display it will be in the Budget for Defense, for the transportation it will be in the Transport & Infrastructure Department, etc. etc.

It was exactly like that in almost all monarchies. Some monarchies, like Denmark and the Netherlands have now assembled all costs made for the functioning of the monarchy, so gaining a more complete, transparant and accountable overview. Yes, then suddenly the one monarchy is "the most expensive" and the other "the most inexpensive" (Spain) but a simple look to the residences, the infrastructure, the staffing, the transportation, the security, the offices, the archives, etc. will learn that it is impossible that Spain is so much cheaper than other monarchies. Comparing royal budgets only makes sense when the budgets contain the same posts.

Plus Marivent, which can't be visited and is only used like a week per year because Felipe and Letizia don't stay in Mallorca the entire holidays like JC & Sofia used to.

All the money used to keep that palace running, security, etc.

Stefan 02-21-2016 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leidi (Post 1865151)
Plus Marivent, which can't be visited and is only used like a week per year because Felipe and Letizia don't stay in Mallorca the entire holidays like JC & Sofia used to.

All the money used to keep that palace running, security, etc.

But almost all other Palaces can be visited. The Royal pace in Madrid is open most of the year. Only 1 day a week it is closed regulary. And even El Pardo can be visited. Also La Granja in Sand Ildenfoso, the Palace in Aranjuez, the Escorial etc.
That is more then the belgian palaces whre only the Royal Palace in Brussels can be visited during the Summer months and the Greenhouses in Laeken during some weeks in Spring but never the Palace itself.

leidi 02-21-2016 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1865281)
But almost all other Palaces can be visited. The Royal pace in Madrid is open most of the year. Only 1 day a week it is closed regulary. And even El Pardo can be visited. Also La Granja in Sand Ildenfoso, the Palace in Aranjuez, the Escorial etc.
That is more then the belgian palaces whre only the Royal Palace in Brussels can be visited during the Summer months and the Greenhouses in Laeken during some weeks in Spring but never the Palace itself.

You can visit Laeken, unlike Zarzuela for example.

La Granja and El Escorial virtually don't count because the royals haven't stayed there in years, they are managed and paid for Patrimonio Nacional.

Although that is really the least of the problems, in Spain no one truly knows how much money goes towards the Royal Family, not even in the Budget shown at the BOE (Boletin Oficial del Estado) it is said exactly how much, what goes where, the Casa Real never explains their expenditure and the media doesn't ask, since there's huge self-censorship about the King & Queen, only praising articles all year long, you'll never see critical press like the Belgian one in Spain, not even at independentist communities like Euskadi or Catalunya.

tommy100 02-21-2016 02:34 PM

Lets face it, it would be much better for us and nosy journalists if all the costs of each RF were published in one place. However sadly nearly every RF has at least one element of their costs which are paid for from another department and thus not published. The Belgian RF come the closest to being most open IMO, especially if they publish security costs.

Duc_et_Pair 09-15-2016 03:33 AM

Nine out of ten (!) people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. They find that former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should not get money, if they do not properly perform their duties. According to a survey by the VTM program Royalty amongst 1000 people.

Most respondents also thought the government should better check whether members of the royal family indeed perform their duties. Royal grants remain a source of debate. The royal family self feeds the discussion. So was Prince Laurent found to have abused his grant: he had to return 16.000 Euro to the Treasury. Recently former Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo stated that the abdicated King Albert thought his annual grant of 923.000 Euro was not sufficient. Since his abdication the former King barely appeared on the public stage. For three consecutive years the former King did not attend the Fęte Nationale.

These cases have influenced how people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium look to these royal grants. Nine out of ten people have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. More than 85 percent of respondents also feel that the government should ensure that members of the royal family fulfill their tasks.

Regardless of this, more than nine in ten respondents thought that the grants to former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should be restricted or abolished. More than eight out of ten respondents also thought that Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent just have to go to work and earn their own living.

The figures show even that barely 1 in 5 of the respondents have confidence in former King Albert since he is no longer a head of state. King Philippe has a better score: 63,1 percent of the respondents have confidence in him as head of state. The inquiry was ordered by the program Royalty from the Dutch-speaking Belgian network VTM.

Source: "Dotaties Laurent en Astrid afschaffen" - HLN.be

Duc_et_Pair 09-15-2016 03:53 AM

After his abdication the annual grant to former King Albert is half a million Euro less than was promised. Therefore the former King is still not pleased. When the former King discussed the intention to abdicate, the then Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo (Parti Socialiste) already committed an annual grant of 1.4 million Euro. It turned out that the then Vice-Prime Minister, Mr Alexander De Croo (Flemish Liberals) did not agree with such a high amount.

On July 21 2013 Prince Philippe did succeed his father. A week earlier the Government decided to grant the abdicated King 923.000 Euro per year. This is bruto: the King still had to pay taxes over it. In the program Autopsy on RTBf radio (the French-speaking public channel) former Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo told that he was in favor of a much higher amount: "I found that the grant should be similar to the situation in the Netherlands." (Princess Beatrix receives an indexed grant, at the moment 1.464.000 Euro, free of taxation).

Former Prime Minister Mr Elio Di Rupo: "I suggested 1.4 million, but that amount was also a sort of recognition for the work he has done. He was the King who kept the country together. To my dismay, inside the Government I was faced with opposition by the Flemish Liberals." Mr Alexander De Croo, back then Vice-Prime Minister and responsible for pensions, confirmed that he did not agree with the amount as proposed by Mr Di Rupo: "As monarch Albert II absolutely did what was expected of him, so he certainly had the right to a proper grant. But I found the proposal from Di Rupo too generous. That was nearly 100 times the average pension of an ordinary Belgian, in a time the Government asked the people to sacrifice. Within the Government the majority of the ministers was on the same line as De Croo: "As Heir, Prince Philippe received a grant of 923.000 euros. I found that King Albert could get the same amount after his abdication."

(Apparently the King feels betrayed because in the discussion about his desire to abdicate, logically the post-abdication arrangements were discussed and apparently the King had the reassurance of the Prime Minister that he could count on an annual allowance of 1,4 million Euro. Once King Albert had abdicated, it turned out 500.000 Euro less... Not very gentlemanlike indeed.)

Source: Koning Albert boos: hij krijgt 500.000 euro minder dan Di Rupo beloofde - HLN.be

Tatiana Maria 09-17-2016 10:19 PM

:previous:
:previous:

Thank you for all the information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair (Post 1923894)
Nine out of ten (!) people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. They find that former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should not get money, if they do not properly perform their duties. According to a survey by the VTM program Royalty amongst 1000 people.

Most respondents also thought the government should better check whether members of the royal family indeed perform their duties. Royal grants remain a source of debate. The royal family self feeds the discussion. So was Prince Laurent found to have abused his grant: he had to return 16.000 Euro to the Treasury. Recently former Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo stated that the abdicated King Albert thought his annual grant of 923.000 Euro was not sufficient. Since his abdication the former King barely appeared on the public stage. For three consecutive years the former King did not attend the Fęte Nationale.

These cases have influenced how people from the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium look to these royal grants. Nine out of ten people have problems with the annual grants to members of the royal family. More than 85 percent of respondents also feel that the government should ensure that members of the royal family fulfill their tasks.

Regardless of this, more than nine in ten respondents thought that the grants to former King Albert, Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent should be restricted or abolished. More than eight out of ten respondents also thought that Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent just have to go to work and earn their own living.

The figures show even that barely 1 in 5 of the respondents have confidence in former King Albert since he is no longer a head of state. King Philippe has a better score: 63,1 percent of the respondents have confidence in him as head of state. The inquiry was ordered by the program Royalty from the Dutch-speaking Belgian network VTM.

Source: "Dotaties Laurent en Astrid afschaffen" - HLN.be

91% wil geen dotaties voor Laurent en Astrid | VTM NIEUWS

Grants to King Philippe & Queen Mathilde: 69.0% preserve, 25.7% restrict, 5.3% abolish
Grants to King Albert II & Queen Paola: 56.2% restrict, 34.4% abolish, 9.5% preserve
Grant to Princess Elisabeth: 39.2% restrict, 31.2% preserve, 29.6% abolish
Grant to Princess Astrid: 54.5% abolish, 35.9% restrict, 9.6% preserve
Grant to Prince Laurent: 60.5% abolish, 32.8% restrict, 6.7% preserve

Frelinghighness 09-17-2016 11:41 PM

This seems very sad

Duc_et_Pair 09-18-2016 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frelinghighness (Post 1924698)
This seems very sad

For so far the Belgians are quite generous. In neighbouring Netherlands never ever anyone other than the present, the future and the former King (and their eventual spouses) have received a grant from the State.

In Belgium the Nr 12 in the line of succession (Prince Laurent) still gets an annual grant... so it was just waiting on the flood of criticism, especially with the family showing a total disfunctionality.

Marengo 02-06-2018 05:34 AM

In 2017 the private trips of the king and queen have cost the Belgian taxpayer a sum of 116.736,- euros. The costs relate to the use of an airplane of the Belgian air force. The additional costs of security etc. were not added to this sum.

The article claims that the private travels of the king and queen are more costly than their functional travel costs. This is a lie. The total costs for working trips were 335.929 euros.

No other members of the royal family have used an airplane of the defense department in 2018.

Source:
https://www.hln.be/showbizz/royalty/...-euro~a76c9b1d

***
Note:

For a comparison: the air travels of the Dutch RF were costing the Dutch taxpayer 883.000 euros in 2016.

Mbruno 02-06-2018 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria (Post 1924691)
:previous:
:previous:

Thank you for all the information.



91% wil geen dotaties voor Laurent en Astrid | VTM NIEUWS

Grants to King Philippe & Queen Mathilde: 69.0% preserve, 25.7% restrict, 5.3% abolish
Grants to King Albert II & Queen Paola: 56.2% restrict, 34.4% abolish, 9.5% preserve
Grant to Princess Elisabeth: 39.2% restrict, 31.2% preserve, 29.6% abolish
Grant to Princess Astrid: 54.5% abolish, 35.9% restrict, 9.6% preserve
Grant to Prince Laurent: 60.5% abolish, 32.8% restrict, 6.7% preserve

Princess Elisabeth doesn't get any grants (at least not yet). The poll is nonsensical then and just illustrates how badly informed the public is. They may think Astrid and Laurent are swimming in public money (which is not the case) and, most likely, they completely ignore the work they do on behalf of the Belgian state, especially Astrid with her economic/trade missions.

The Belgian RF's problem is bad PR.

Marchesina 02-06-2018 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 2071140)
In 2017 the private trips of the king and queen have cost the Belgian taxpayer a sum of 116.736,- euros. The costs relate to the use of an airplane of the Belgian air force. The additional costs of security etc. were not added to this sum.

The article claims that the private travels of the king and queen are more costly than their functional travel costs. This is a lie. The total costs for working trips were 335.929 euros.

No other members of the royal family have used an airplane of the defense department in 2018.

Source:
https://www.hln.be/showbizz/royalty/...-euro~a76c9b1d

***
Note:

For a comparison: the air travels of the Dutch RF were costing the Dutch taxpayer 883.000 euros in 2016.

Is any other news outlet debunking this news? These sorts of articles can be extremely dangerous...

I agree with Mbruno, the RF should hire a better PR team.


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