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tiaraprin 08-07-2005 09:45 PM

Romanov Rescue 1917-1919: Action and Inaction
 
It does have to do with that thissal. King George V wanted to help his cousin the Tsar but if he offered him asylum in England, the country would have went into an uproar. The Tsarina was a German Princess who was a first cousin to George V and the Kaiser. At a time when the British Royals Anglicized their name, to bring the Tsar and his German ties and "crimes" against humanity to England, George V could very well have lost his throne too. According to Kenneth Rose, George V never forgave himself for letting the Tsar and his family go to their deaths. That is why he put himself out to rescue Prince Philip's family when Philip's father was about to face a firing squad. He didn't want anymore blood on his hands. (Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Greece, nee Princess Alice of Battenberg was his cousin also.)

Alicky 08-08-2005 05:24 AM

I agree. I think, given the situation, it's pretty conclusive that the Romanovs could have never went to Germany for asylum. And as far as Britain, Nicholas and the Romanovs were not liked by the public over there, Nicholas was demonized in the press as a tyrant(they were pretty much right). Had George brought him over, it would have caused an uproar and George would have been looked at as a traitor, who knows what that could have cost his throne, if not his throne period. He also didn't know Nicholas's ultimate fate in Russia. He did the best he could with the information he had at the time.

Besides, Alix had plenty of other relatives that could've taken them in too. George is not to blame.

Blanch 11-19-2006 11:18 AM

No doubt it is very sad story.

Anyway, I've always wanted to know why exactly the didn't leave Russia (I mean, of course, before the arrest).

I don't know well the reason why Goerge V didn't help them. I think I read somewhere in this forum that he couldn't, but I don't remember the explanation. I'm sure some of you must know the whole story of it.

What I did read in a book is that the king of Spain at that time, Alfonso XIII, had the intention of help the Romanovs to leave Russia, because his wife, Victoria Eugenia de Battenberg (Ena) was Alix's cousin (they were both granddaughters of the queen Victoria), and they were worried about the imperial family.

I've just caught the book and it says that when the revolution broke out in May 1917, Alfonso XIII called his ministers, and tried to contact with his Brtish colleagues to negotiate with the sovietic provisional government the leaving of the tsar and his family through Finland and Sweden. Weeks passed without receiving an answer, and so the king of Spain worked to free them directly with the kings of Sweden and Norway. He offered them to charter a boat in a harbor of the north to board the Russian royal family. To this lack of communication another aggravating circumstance was added: George V wrote that the English government or any other government, who wanted to intervene in favor with the tsar and his family, couldn't do it without an application of the tsar expressing his desire for leaving the country, something that Nicholas wasn't willing to do.


Is that the real reason why the Romanov family didn't receive help to leave Russia?

Lady Jennifer 11-19-2006 11:41 AM

I think a lot of the monarchs wanted to help the Romanovs (since many were related to each other), but their advisors suggested it may not be the best thing. If I'm not mistaken, the issue with the Brit. royals not helping was due to the fact of the Revolution in Russia & they didn't want to bring the idea to the UK. And if they helped the Romanovs that could help stir anti-monarchy feelings in the UK (since Alexandra was German).

Katya 11-19-2006 01:52 PM

The British king (George VI I think) definitely had the blood of the Romanovs on his hands. He, along with his advisers, did not want the family to come to England, and the only reason he ended up helping Maria Feodorovna was because his mother (Maria's sister) threw a fit when he said he wouldn't send a ship to get the Dowager Empress out of Russia.

Furienna 11-19-2006 01:58 PM

Wow... At least, Alexandra (the Brittish queen) made sure Dagmar got out of there.

morhange 11-19-2006 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katya
The British king (George VI I think) definitely had the blood of the Romanovs on his hands. He, along with his advisers, did not want the family to come to England, and the only reason he ended up helping Maria Feodorovna was because his mother (Maria's sister) threw a fit when he said he wouldn't send a ship to get the Dowager Empress out of Russia.

Actually, the Prime Minister (Lloyd George, I think) was all for the Romanovs coming to England, it was King George who didn't want them to come. He felt that inviting the deposed emperor to England would compromising his own position as monarch.

Furienna 11-19-2006 07:40 PM

What a way to treat your cousin... :sad:

EmpressRouge 11-20-2006 12:24 AM

There were fears that Britain's (German) monarchy would have been overthrown too if King George let his cousins into the country. Everything is clear in hindersight, and he probably never imagined Nicholas and Alexandra and family would suffer such a tragic fate. That's why Britain was so quick to send a ship to rescue Prince Andrew of Greece and family, the memory of Nicholas and Alexandra still haunting him. And as the family left so hastily, a crate was used as a crib for a little baby named Philip, who would one day marry the king's granddaughter.

ortino 01-13-2007 04:19 AM

I don't care- what the King did was bad....family first in my opinion and by that time Russia was pretty much in terms of welfare..the British people would have accepted a deposed Russian Sovereign (GD Michael anyone? ps:-- he had Nina and Xenia..)

lucien 08-19-2007 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morhange (Post 537087)
Actually, the Prime Minister (Lloyd George, I think) was all for the Romanovs coming to England, it was King George who didn't want them to come. He felt that inviting the deposed emperor to England would compromising his own position as monarch.

Not George V by himself,his wife,Mary,said no.According to the memoirs/and an interview of/with the late Duke of Windsor,when that message/request arrived one morning during breakfast,it was given to the King first,who read it,and passed it on to his wife without comment,she immediatly said;"No".

As the late Duke inquired what that was all about,he was told Nicky had requested asylum in the UK.

YouTube - God Save the Tsar

Furienna 08-19-2007 05:51 PM

Why did Mary do that? :O

lucien 08-19-2007 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna (Post 655233)
Why did Mary do that? :O

Whatever reason that scheming woman had,I 've always blamed her,indirectly, for the murder of Nicky & Alix and their children.
Mary was certainly no saint.George hardly had a say,he was to weak/meek to oppose her.The only thing he was
good at was terrorising his own children and raising,or rather had them lovelessly raised,to insecure persons.But I do not
wish to delute this wonderfull thread by that woman.

Furienna 08-25-2007 05:22 AM

Okay... I knew Mary looked strict and so, but... wow...

ysbel 08-25-2007 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katya (Post 536966)
The British king (George VI I think) definitely had the blood of the Romanovs on his hands. He, along with his advisers, did not want the family to come to England, and the only reason he ended up helping Maria Feodorovna was because his mother (Maria's sister) threw a fit when he said he wouldn't send a ship to get the Dowager Empress out of Russia.

You have to understand that George V and Nicholas II were currently fighting their own first cousin Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany and George V was also being accused of being too German. So World War I was testing family loyalty to the extremes and the Royal Families were put to the test to choose between their countries and their families.

The unfortunate side effect of all of this was that Marie Feodorovna was sent to live with her nephew Christian X of Denmark and the arrangements were uncomfortable for all. Marie, used to being an Empress and the top lady in a large land was too grand and imposing for the small Danish court and Christian X having been King for a good 10 years was used to having things his way and he wasn't pleased at having to put himself out for his bossy little aunt.

It was simply unbearable for all until Alexandra arranged for Marie to move to Hvidore away from the King's court.

.

Russophile 10-19-2007 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ortino (Post 558156)
I don't care- what the King did was bad...

Ortino, George had no idea they (The Bolsheviks) would actually shoot them! This is why he sent the battleship for Xenia, Sandro and Maria Feoderovna et. all.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna (Post 614287)
I know. But it was ninety years ago anyway, so I don't think it matters so much anymore.

It does have significance because there are still 2 bodies missing though they say that they have found them, the tests are becoming inconclusive and the rumors abound!

Marengo 03-07-2008 06:53 AM

Plots to Rescue the Tsar and His Family
 
In this thread we can discuss the various plots to rescue Tsar Nicholas II and his family from Russia. We can also discuss the roles that different monarchs played in this process.

lexi4 03-07-2008 05:54 PM

Interesting topic.
However, in my experience, I have found that discussions about plots to rescue the Imperial Family abound, it is difficult to find documentation. If this is a topic about discussions, that is one thing. But if it is about historical facts, that is another matter entirely. Authors have written about the topic and that could be part of this discussion. I think (and this is my opinion only) one of the reasons this is such a difficult topic to pin down is because so many of the documents are either classified or have been destroyed if anything was ever written at all
Here is an article written in 2006 about a plot. How factual it is, I don't know.

British spies in plot to save tsar - Times Online

I am not all to sure where the Imperial Family would have gone if they did escape. Initially they were given asylum in England, but that was later denied. I'd have to do some research to put the particulars together on that.
There have been things written, which make for fun discussion, but have mostly been discredited.

It will be interesting to see where this discussion goes.

Marengo 03-07-2008 07:19 PM

Well, I have a book at home called 'plots to rescue the tsar', haven't read it yet but I suppose it is documentated enough.

I agree that there might not be too much discussion coming from this but what I find even more interesting is the role the various monarchs/cousins of Nicholas and Alexandra played in this. Esp. George V's role was rather dubious; I believe in the end it was only Alfonso XIII of Spain who showed his hospitality, though too late.

COUNTESS 03-07-2008 07:55 PM

George V loved his crown more than his cousins. Now, George was a very decent man, and, in his defense, he may not have envisioned them being murdered, but it had to cross his mind. He was no scholar, but not an idiot, either. He knew that autocratic rulers, were not welcome in Britain. The decision was his. He was afraid. Willy, of course, could not help them and, yes, Alfonso XIII, did reach out, but it was too late.

Lexi, you are right, there are all kindsw of unsubstiated plots of rescue, but none with real authenticity.


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