The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   The Royal Family of Portugal (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f201/)
-   -   The Ducal House of Cadaval (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f201/the-ducal-house-of-cadaval-15899.html)

Russophile 09-07-2007 03:02 PM

The Ducal House of Cadaval
 

Arms of the Dukes of Cadaval

° ° °

Does Diana inherit the Duchy that she's Duchess of?? Sort of like Eleanor of Aquitane?

HMTLove23 09-07-2007 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 663896)
Does she inherit the Duchy that she's Duchess of?? Sort of like Eleanor of Aquitane?

1b) Jaime Alvares Pereira de Melo, Duque de Cadaval (San Sebastian 21 Jan 1913-Estoril 31 Jul 2001); m.1st London 29 May 1936 (div) Antoinette Louise Schweisguth (Epinal 6 Aug 1899-Paris 22 Nov 1982); m.2d Lausanne 3 Feb 1965 Claudine Tritz (b.Guistreham 4 Aug 1943); since the death of the Duque the succession to his titles was in dispute among his daughters; one reported said that the Duke of Braganza awarded the title to the third daughter; a subsequent report said that he recognized the eldest daughter

from pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff

Russophile 09-07-2007 03:15 PM

Oooh. That could get messy. . . .:ohmy:

HMTLove23 09-07-2007 03:35 PM

tell me about it, he has two elder daughter from 1st marriage and Diana and another from 2nd. And those two elder daughters has 1 daughter each so alot of women and no men.

Marengo 09-07-2007 03:55 PM

Apparently Dom Duarte doesn´t recognise marriages done by the Portuguese state but only those that are done in church, hence he supports the claim of Diana instead of that of Duchess Rosalinda de Cadaval.

Diane has featured in several Point de Vue issues the last months, she seems to love publicity as much as her husband-to-be does. I believe he previously dated Countess Elisabeth d´Udekem d´Acoz, sister of Crownprincess Mathilde, who is now Marchesa Pallavicini.

HMTLove23 09-07-2007 04:07 PM

really...I was wondering about why there was a dispute over who was head of household. thanks for clearing that up.

Marengo 09-14-2007 03:02 AM

Well, I asked a Portuguese friend of mine and he said that she/the family isn´t that wealthy according to him. Most of what she owns is tied up in real estate and art. She has one or two estates I believe, she was recently photographed by Point de Vue with her mother at one of these estates. Her sister Rosalinda is the weathly one, as she married a Hermes. The latter is now sometimes referred to as Duchess od Cadaval-Hermes, rather odd combination.

Moonmaiden23 09-14-2007 04:47 PM

Duchess de Cadaval-Hermes??! Wow...how is THAT for creating ill will between the two? I guess we can safely say that Rosalinda will not be among the happy wedding guests next June!

magnik 09-14-2007 05:05 PM

So which one of the Alvares Pereira de Melo sister is a Duchess de Cadaval?

HMTLove23 09-14-2007 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMTLove23 (Post 663905)
1b) Jaime Alvares Pereira de Melo, Duque de Cadaval (San Sebastian 21 Jan 1913-Estoril 31 Jul 2001); m.1st London 29 May 1936 (div) Antoinette Louise Schweisguth (Epinal 6 Aug 1899-Paris 22 Nov 1982); m.2d Lausanne 3 Feb 1965 Claudine Tritz (b.Guistreham 4 Aug 1943); since the death of the Duque the succession to his titles was in dispute among his daughters; one reported said that the Duke of Braganza awarded the title to the third daughter; a subsequent report said that he recognized the eldest daughter

from pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff


diana is, although the title is in dispute

Elsa M. 09-25-2007 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 663931)
Apparently Dom Duarte doesn´t recognise marriages done by the Portuguese state but only those that are done in church, hence he supports the claim of Diana instead of that of Duchess Rosalinda de Cadaval.

Diana is the eldest daughter of the late Duke of Cadaval with his second wife Claudine Fritz, although Rosalinda (married to Hubert Guerrand-Hermès, the heir of the House Hermès) is actually the eldest daughter of D. Jaime, but born from his first marriage (which was not religious, but a civil wedding).

There was a dispute on the succession to the title, since it was Diana (born from the Catholic marriage) and not Rosalinda (born from the first marriage) to inherit the title. At the time, the Duke of Bragança had to decide on who would inherit the Duchy of Cadaval (since Portugal no longer has noble titles, they're not a matter decided in courts and all things related to it are decided by an entity named Conselho da Nobreza, which has its highest figure in the Duke of Bragança). The final decision was based on D. Jaime's wish, since he made it clear he wanted Diana to inherit the title.

I'm not sure about the details of the agreement that was reached between the parts, but, from what I read in the press, the Duke of Bragança considered a kind of "salomonic" sentence, dividing the various titles of D. Jaime (Duke of Cadaval, Marquis of Ferreira, Count of Tentúgal) among his 4 children.


Diana Mariana Vitória Álvares Pereira de Melo is the 11th Duchess of Cadaval. She was born in Genève, in 1978, as the first daughter of D. Jaime Álvares Pereira de Melo (the 10th Duke of Cadaval) with his second wife, Claudine Marguerite Marianne Tritz. She belongs to the second most traditional family in Portugal (which is a colateral branch of the Dukes of Bragança).

Here's the family's estate:
Palácio Duques de Cadaval

Marengo 09-25-2007 03:24 PM

Thanks for explaining Elsa. I understand Dom Duarte´s final say a bit better now, as he was just following the will of the late Duke.

Was Diana´s father estranged from his two eldest daughters? Did the second wife influence her husband to denounce his first two children maybe?

Elsa M. 09-28-2007 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 671810)
Was Diana´s father estranged from his two eldest daughters? Did the second wife influence her husband to denounce his first two children maybe?

I believe his wife took an important role there(Duchess Claudine is a very strong woman)... and yes, Rosalinda was not happy at all with the decision, I can say that.

Last February, after the couple appeared together on "Point de Vue" for the first time, the magazine published a letter from the lawyer of D.ª Rosalinda, where she expressed her annoyance for the treatment given to her sister as "Duchess of Cadaval", assuring that she (D.ª Rosalinda) was actually the 11th Duchess of Cadaval, 13th Marquesss of Ferreira and 23th Countess of Tentúgal (titles she claimed then were given to her by the Duke of Bragança).

Afterwards, the magazine asked D. Duarte for a clarification and he explained that D. Jaime wanted Diana to inherit the Duchy, so he promoted a family meeting, at the end of which D. Duarte decided to execute D. Jaime’s will: Diana received the title of Duchess of Cadaval; Rosalinda was named Marquess of Ferreira and Countess of Tentúgal in addition to the courtesy-title of Duchess of Cadaval-Guerrand-Hermès.

D. Duarte also explained that the Duchy of Cadaval is not a title of automatic succession, so, once Diana passes away, it will be the head of the Royal House (probably Prince D. Afonso) deciding who will succeed to D.ª Diana: her child or any other member of the family.

Regina 02-15-2008 07:31 PM

Here some pictures of Dona Rosalinda (who likes who be called as Rosaline), with her husband Hubert Guerrand-Hermès, in their house of Paris (1989)

1

2

With their daughter, Olímpia

(Pics were scanned by me from OLÁ Semanário Magazine)

rominet09 02-15-2008 09:57 PM

Thank you for the pix i had wondered how she looked like.
After the wedding we can expect in Point de Vue some news from her (unless of course Carla Sarkosy has a little cold, they would be o bliged to put her on the cover then instead !)

fearghas 02-16-2008 04:22 AM

How is Duchess Diane related to the Portugese Royal family?

Elsa M. 02-16-2008 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearghas (Post 730193)
How is Duchess Diane related to the Portugese Royal family?

Diana belongs to a colateral branch of the House of Bragança, descending from D. Nuno Álvares Pereira de Melo (1638-1725), who was the closest male relative to King D. João IV, and therefore the second most important person in the kingdom.
Nuno Álvares Pereira recieved the Duchy of Cadaval in 1648.

Warren 02-16-2008 11:16 AM

The Cadaval coat of arms in post #1 incorporate the blue and white motif of the Kings of Portugal which denotes royal descent.

Elsa M. 02-24-2008 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren (Post 730291)
The Cadaval coat of arms in post #1 incorporate the blue and white motif of the Kings of Portugal which denotes royal descent.

The complete coat of arms can be seen here:
Home

Here we have also the official photo of the current Duchess of Cadaval:
http://casacadaval.com/db3/00247/cas...adeCadaval.jpg

And here... a nice panoramic visit through the Palace:
Jardim do Paço

Marengo 02-25-2008 06:36 AM

I was wondering, why is the succession in this duchy not automatic? Is that only in this case as the succession is not clear or was that always the case? And if Diane clings onto Dom Duarte's decision, why doesn't she respect it that her elder sister got the other titles (it seems Diane uses them too). She stole the most prominent title so she might just as well leave something to her elder sister.

I don't envy the Duke of Braganca in this matter though, whatever decision he took or takes it will never be satisfying for all parties involved.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises