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lexi4 02-03-2008 11:00 AM

Who is your favourite of Henry VIII's wives?
 
Of the six wives of King Henry, who is your favorite and why? I found that for many Tudor fans the decision is usually between Anne and Catherine of Aragon.
Lexi

Avalon 02-04-2008 08:26 AM

My favourite would be Anne Boleyn. Anne is often called the most influential Queen Consort in British History, and not without reasons.
I see her as strong-willed, smart woman. Elizabeth was a good mixture of her father, and mother.

I don't have anything against Catherine of Aragon, and I quite like her. If she were the heir to Isabella I, not Joana, I think we would have another great Queen.

Jane Seymour is probably my least-favourite. She just doesn't have a 'face' for me - pale, uninteresting, always doing what others told her.

Of other wives, I like Anne of Cleves, she'd probably be an excellent wife for some Duke or Prince, but definitely not Henry. There is no straight opinion for Katherine Howard - I pity but don't like her. Catherine Parr is probably my second favourite after Anne Boleyn, even ahead of Catherine of Aragon.

hilal 02-04-2008 09:33 AM

Six Wives of King Henry
 
Catherine of Aragon. First, only and real wife of King Henry VIII.

lexi4 02-04-2008 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 725533)
My favourite would be Anne Boleyn. Anne is often called the most influential Queen Consort in British History, and not without reasons.
I see her as strong-willed, smart woman. Elizabeth was a good mixture of her father, and mother.

I don't have anything against Catherine of Aragon, and I quite like her. If she were the heir to Isabella I, not Joana, I think we would have another great Queen.

Jane Seymour is probably my least-favourite. She just doesn't have a 'face' for me - pale, uninteresting, always doing what others told her.

Of other wives, I like Anne of Cleves, she'd probably be an excellent wife for some Duke or Prince, but definitely not Henry. There is no straight opinion for Katherine Howard - I pity but don't like her. Catherine Parr is probably my second favourite after Anne Boleyn, even ahead of Catherine of Aragon.

Anne is my favorite too. I do feel for Catherine and have nothing against her. The story of Anne and Henry shows what lengths he went to to make her Queen and she would settle for nothing less.
Lexi

Avalon 02-04-2008 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilal (Post 725557)
Catherine of Aragon. First, only and real wife of King Henry VIII.

Well, all of Henry's wives ater Anne Boleyn were 'legal' and 'real' wives, even if we don't acknowledge his divorce with Catherine of Aragon. He was a widower by the time he married Jane, so she was quite a 'real' wife. :smile:

lexi4 02-04-2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 725570)
Well, all of Henry's wives ater Anne Boleyn were 'legal' and 'real' wives, even if we don't acknowledge his divorce with Catherine of Aragon. He was a widower by the time he married Jane, so she was quite a 'real' wife. :smile:

Good point.

Jo of Palatine 02-05-2008 07:25 AM

I voted for Anne of Cleves because she was a foreigner without an influential family who had the misfortune not to be liked or ven be tolerated by her husband but made her way in her new country to a personal success. Anne cared and protected princesses Mary and Elizabeth from their father. Mary and Elizabeth rarely showed the warm side of their characters but sometimes they did - I put it back to the fact that Anne had taught them that not all people were to be distrusted per se. For Mary Tudor Anne was her father's real widow and she appointed her second lady in the realm after herself on her coronation. When Anne of Cleves died she was really mourned by queen Mary and princess Elizabeth.

Avalon 02-05-2008 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine (Post 726044)
I voted for Anne of Cleves because she was a foreigner without an influential family who had the misfortune not to be liked or ven be tolerated by her husband but made her way in her new country to a personal success. Anne cared and protected princesses Mary and Elizabeth from their father. Mary and Elizabeth rarely showed the warm side of their characters but sometimes they did - I put it back to the fact that Anne had taught them that not all people were to be distrusted per se. For Mary Tudor Anne was her father's real widow and she appointed her second lady in the realm after herself on her coronation. When Anne of Cleves died she was really mourned by queen Mary and princess Elizabeth.

I totally agree with your points Jo. Personally I like Anne Boleyn and Catherine Parr because they were strong-willed and independent women, but Anne of Cleves was certainly more likable, and she did a lot for Henry's children and poor Grey children as well.

JulieS 02-05-2008 06:26 PM

My favorite is Catherine of Aragon. According to what I read about it, she was very appreciated of the English people.

Russophile 02-05-2008 07:05 PM

I voted for Catherine Parr. I liked the way she took a firm hand with the children to get them educated. I liked her style with the feather. She was shrewd to know about all the plots against her yet vulnerable to get sucked up into Henry's drama. She had her own things in her own right and had no ax to grind at the court. I am just sorry she died in child birth married to a man she thought was her great love and he didn't feel the same about her.

ysbel 02-05-2008 07:22 PM

I don't know which of them I liked the most but I will say that I think Katharine Parr was the wisest of the women and Katharine Howard was the least shrewd of the wives.

I wanted to like Katharine Howard because I thought she was so vulnerable but some contemporary reports indicated that she was quite nasty. I never really liked Anne Boleyn because I thought her treatment of Henry's first daughter Mary Tudor was cruel and vindictive and I've never been able to stomach vindictive people.

Russophile 02-05-2008 07:28 PM

I didn't hear that Katherine Howard was nasty. Just a stupid little girl who was manipulated by the court for their own ends.
When I watched "The 6 wives" when I was a child on PBS I didn't like Anne Boleyn because I was so enamored of Catherine of Aragon.
But weren't the clothes GRAND?? We have a Renaissance fair here in Oregon and people dress up. They ALWAYS have a Queen and she ALWAYS has attendants. She, of course is Elizabeth 1. And her attendants are as dapper as she is!! But how TIME CONSUMING to make the costumes!!!

ysbel 02-05-2008 08:31 PM

Well the story of Katharine Howard was even more complex than that. She was the daughter of the younger brother of the Duke of Norfolk and wasn't seen as anyone important so her education and upbringing were left to the side. She was shunted with all the minor relatives to the care of the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk who was blind and half deaf and couldn't supervise young people very well. That's where the indiscretions of the uneducated teenagers of the lesser nobility were in full bloom.

Actually her relatives did not try to push her forward. I forgot the story but I think the Duke's daughter was to be presented in court for her debut and she got sick but they already had the date for the audience with the King and you didn't turn down an audience with the King so Katharine was sent in her place in her elegant clothes. That's what took the King's fancy and once he wanted her, the Duke of Norfolk couldn't say no.

Apparently Henry had trouble consummating the marriage so the Duke seeing the writing on the wall, hooked Katharine up with Thomas Culpeper hoping that a royal child would save her and his family.

When she was Queen, Katharine drove away some of Henry's old favorites at court even though they were good friends of his. She had her reasons; she was insecure and distrusted anyone stronger than her. But the crowd of friends she was with were disreputable. A couple of them blackmailed her to get a high position in court and she was forced to take them on as her attendants.

Actually the more that I think of it the more Katharine Howard reminds me of Princess Diana. Very young, very foolish, could be used by others, hung around with really disreputable company, could be nasty, and ended dying way too young because of her foolishness.

However, Henry only had himself to blame for Katharine Howard. He was used to getting what he wanted even if the apple that he plucked this time ended up giving him a bad taste in his mouth. His problem was that he didn't take no for an answer. It was the same case with Katharine Parr who did not want to marry him but who had no other choice.

And oh yes, the costumes were to die for. Don't you love how the women's dresses accentuated the waist and the neck? And the full sleeves with slits to show the colorful undergarments and the chain of stones acting as a border around the bottom of the bodice and around the neckline. Extravagent without being gaudy. Lovely.

Russophile 02-06-2008 07:21 PM

Do you think that adage was coined after this "Be careful what you wish for. . ." ??
I just don't know how they CLEANED the garments! Some had jewels sewn in. And there weren't any good dry cleaners back then!

sirhon11234 02-06-2008 07:49 PM

Quote:

Actually the more that I think of it the more Katharine Howard reminds me of Princess Diana. Very young, very foolish, could be used by others, hung around with really disreputable company, could be nasty, and ended dying way too young because of her foolishness.
The Princess died in a car accident, like any other normal person.

For some strange reason that I can't explain Jane Seymour is my favorite wife. My second is Anne Boleyn, she minds me of Princess Diana.

ysbel 02-06-2008 07:52 PM

They didn't clean the outer garments. That's why a lot of the outer material was velvet and fur. It made the clothes easier to maintain with a brush. The undergarments (under the really nice silk undergarments) were linen and these were cleaned but I believe they were actually easier to throw away than to clean. These soiled linen garments were actually the key ingredients to make linen paper which were in hot demand by the new printing presses that had been invented only a few decades earlier. Without an easy resource for making paper, large scale printing would have been an impossibility and these soiled linen undergarments played an important role in the further education of mankind. :smile:

The jewels actually hid unsightly hems and seams and they were removable (the big exceptions were the jewel-studded silk undergarments that puffed through the slits in the outer material. I don't know how they cleaned them. The most unusual clothing adornment were actual silkworms that decorated the undergarment of one of Elizabeth I's court dresses.

It was meant to promote the silk industry but I swear I could not wear such a thing!

Russophile 02-06-2008 07:55 PM

Actual WORMS spinning at the time??
Oh, man, I'd be sick! :sick:

sirhon11234 02-06-2008 07:59 PM

The main leading cause of death for women during that era was child birth.

That is disgusting, a person wearing actual silk worms.:ermm:

Jo of Palatine 02-07-2008 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhon11234 (Post 726774)
The main leading cause of death for women during that era was child birth.

That is disgusting, a person wearing actual silk worms.:ermm:

I guess they were already cocooned in, so it just looked like little balls of silk adorning the garment. It looked that way:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...8741a-f2.2.jpg

ysbel 02-07-2008 08:09 AM

I couldn't find the portrait online unfortunately. A shame because it was really interesting.


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