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Russophile 02-02-2008 04:52 PM

Possible Brides for Nicholas II
 
If Nicholas hadn't married Alix of Hesse and his parents, Alexander III and Marie had chosen another "more suitable" bride for him. Whom do you think it would be??

Drottning 02-02-2008 05:27 PM

Wasn't one of the Orleans princesses considered for Nicholas? I think I read somewhere Marie and Alexander were rather keen on a french bride for their son.

Russophile 02-02-2008 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drottning (Post 724895)
Wasn't one of the Orleans princesses considered for Nicholas? I think I read somewhere Marie and Alexander were rather keen on a french bride for their son.

Weren't they Catholic? Did Catholicism pose a problem for the Imperial Family? I know it was a BIG issue for Alix.

Marengo 02-02-2008 07:59 PM

I believe his parents wanted him to marry Helene d'Orleans, to underline the Russian-French alliance. But Nicholas had his mind on Alix and was rather sure about his choice. The religion would have been an issue of course, as Helene would have had to convert, something she (or her father) wasn't willing to do for Albert-Victor Duke of Clarence either. Anyway, this possibility was never in a stage that a coversion of Helene was required but failed as soon as Alexander III and Dagmar mentioned it.

Another candidate was Margarethe of Prussia, sister of Kaiser Wilhelm II, but I believe Nicholas didn't find her attractive enough.

Russophile 02-02-2008 08:11 PM

You know, it would be really cool if we had pictures of these ladies in here!

gogm 02-02-2008 09:26 PM

Helene d'Orleans
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 724970)
You know, it would be really cool if we had pictures of these ladies in here!

Here are some of Helena who was a candidate for Albert Victor, "Eddy," who was later engaged to Mary of Teck:

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/39756/2018010380094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/11584/2032132840094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/21023/2590791320094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/30812/2964905930094285158S600x600Q85.jpg



http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/39819/2584357470094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

See also:
Helene d'Orleans, Duchess of Aosta .

:flowers:

gogm 02-02-2008 09:39 PM

Margarethe of Prussia
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 724970)
You know, it would be really cool if we had pictures of these ladies in here!

Here are some of Margarethe of Prussia:

http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/31090/2661443760094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/7124/2115199330094285158S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/40945/2361025160094285158S600x600Q85.jpg.

:flowers:

lexi4 02-02-2008 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 724963)
I believe his parents wanted him to marry Helene d'Orleans, to underline the Russian-French alliance. But Nicholas had his mind on Alix and was rather sure about his choice. The religion would have been an issue of course, as Helene would have had to convert, something she (or her father) wasn't willing to do for Albert-Victor Duke of Clarence either. Anyway, this possibility was never in a stage that a coversion of Helene was required but failed as soon as Alexander III and Dagmar mentioned it.

Another candidate was Margarethe of Prussia, sister of Kaiser Wilhelm II, but I believe Nicholas didn't find her attractive enough.

Religion was an issue with Alix too. I think the decision to convert was difficult for her. I wonder if Alexander III and Dagmar had other candidates. Surely they would have. Initially they were dead set against Alex.
Here is what Nicholas had to say about a possible marriage to Helene: "Mama made a few allusions to Helene, daughter of Comte de Paris. I myself want to go in a different direction and it is evident that Mama wants me to chose the other one."
It was only when Alexander's health began to fail that they condeded and allowed Nicholas to marry Alix.

morhange 02-03-2008 03:38 AM

I've always been under the impression that Helene was willing to marry Eddy, and even went to meet Queen Victoria for inspection, but that her father and the Pope were both adamantly against it.

lexi4 02-03-2008 10:44 AM

I know very little about Helene. Has anyone read any books about her?
Lexi

gogm 02-03-2008 12:49 PM

What If
 
It would have deeply influenced history if Nicholas had married Margarethe - Romanov had married Hohenzollern!

I don't know if World War I would have occurred the way it did (I believe the root causes of nationalism, class conflict, and fundamental ignorance of what technological war meant guaranteed a big war) and Nicholas would have faced even more Germanophobia towards a Hohenzollern wife.

Its pretty clear that at least some people were giving up old religious prejudices in the case of Helene and those who first sought her out.:smile:

lexi4 02-03-2008 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogm (Post 725198)
It would have deeply influenced history if Nicholas had married Margarethe - Romanov had married Hohenzollern!

I don't know if World War I would have occurred the way it did (I believe the root causes of nationalism, class conflict, and fundamental ignorance of what technological war meant guaranteed a big war) and Nicholas would have faced even more Germanophobia towards a Hohenzollern wife.

Its pretty clear that at least some people were giving up old religious prejudices in the case of Helene and those who first sought her out.:smile:

That would have been an interesting alliance. She was a cousin to Alix, wasn't she?

EmpressRouge 02-03-2008 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexi4 (Post 725254)
That would have been an interesting alliance. She was a cousin to Alix, wasn't she?

Yup. Margarethe was the daughter of Victoria (Vicky), Princess Royal aka the Empress Frederick and Alix was the daughter of Princess Alice. Thus their mother were sisters making them first cousins.

Also, do you really think Helene ever stood a chance of actually marrying Eddy? I believe the Act of Succession forbids (I'm paraphrasing) anyone who is or ever was a "Papist." So converting would not have cleared Helene, who was born Catholic. It is interesting that the Act only prohibits Catholics. She could have been Orthodox, even Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., and could (legally) become queen as such and not convert (although she probably would have for acceptance).

lexi4 02-03-2008 04:12 PM

Thank you EmpressRouge,
I am not that familiar with the Act of Succession. It would be intereting to know.
Lexi

Russophile 02-03-2008 04:57 PM

Those are lovely! thank you! :flowers:

Russophile 02-03-2008 04:59 PM

Is it me or does she look a bit like Ducky?

Russophile 02-03-2008 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexi4 (Post 725275)
Thank you EmpressRouge,
I am not that familiar with the Act of Succession. It would be intereting to know.
Lexi

Lexi, I think you can find that over on some of the threads with Princess Michael. She was/is Catholic but Prince Michael is not.

lexi4 02-03-2008 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile (Post 725298)
Is it me or does she look a bit like Ducky?

It's not you. I thought she looked like Ducky too.

Marengo 02-05-2008 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogm (Post 725198)
It would have deeply influenced history if Nicholas had married Margarethe - Romanov had married Hohenzollern!

I don't know if World War I would have occurred the way it did (I believe the root causes of nationalism, class conflict, and fundamental ignorance of what technological war meant guaranteed a big war) and Nicholas would have faced even more Germanophobia towards a Hohenzollern wife.

Its pretty clear that at least some people were giving up old religious prejudices in the case of Helene and those who first sought her out.:smile:

We will never know what would have happened, but Margrethe's sister Queen Sophie of Greece certainly paid a price for having such a brother. She disliked Wilhelm intensely (Margerethe shared that feeling) but still during the war some Greeks said that she was a German spy, drugging her husband and sending secret messages to her brother and to the German navy. In the end they burned down the Tatoi estate and the RF had to flee the country.

Anyway, I believe Margerethe never stood a chance, Nicky found her too thin and wanted Alix anyway while Dagmar was as Anti-Prussian as could be.

The Helene option was more serious because it was backed by Nicky's parents, but still.... And even with a more sensible wife like Helene things might have turned out pretty much the same.

Russophile 02-06-2008 02:26 AM

Was the Tatoi estate where Grand Duchess George was living??


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