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-   -   God Save Our Gracious...President? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f86/god-save-our-gracious-president-14976.html)

Ennyllorac 11-29-2007 12:29 AM

God Save Our Gracious...President?
 


The House of Windsor seems safely settled in the chintzy drawing rooms of Buckingham Palace, but could there really be a sell-by date on the most famous Royal Family in the world? Is Prince William really the golden boy he's believed to be, and could a certain Baltic country have all the answers to the age-old question: Monarchy or Republic?

More...

Elspeth 11-29-2007 04:13 AM

This article has generated a lot of interest among people who've read it while it was being prepared and during the preview of the articles site.

We have some relevant threads, but I'm sure Sam will be very happy to talk about the article here too.

These are some of the threads:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...lic-12736.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...rchy-6423.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ing-14557.html

Al_bina 11-30-2007 09:41 PM

The article is great. Sam (a.k.a. BeatrixFan) has got a flair for creative writing. It is nice that Sam is fascinated by Latvia, which has been and is a mini model of Western Europe among the former USSR countries. However, non-European well-to-do people from the above mentioned republics do feel like the second class citizens there.

Elspeth 11-30-2007 11:15 PM

I doubt there are many countries where one group or other doesn't feel like second class citizens.

It's an interesting article, though, isn't it? Prince William's blandness and apparent fondness for clubbing are beginning to eat into the popularity he had when he was younger, and unfortunately it does seem to be making a significant number of people question the value of the monarchy in the future, both in Britain and in Commonwealth countries.

However, we have another article in the works by someone arguing that the monarchy is a valuable institution, and we're hoping to be able to publish it before too long.

Thomas Parkman 12-14-2007 04:46 PM

Ye Gods and little fishes,

If blandness and a fondness for going out to clubs are the worst things about somebody, would you people please get real. Where are your brains. May I suggest that you look just about anywhere, and I mean anywhere, and the people there would be more than devoutly greatful that their future whatever was just bland and had merely a fondness for going out to clubs.
As for this idea of a nice neat sterile "democratic" elected head of state with a one chamber legislature and Prime Minister etc. Please, I will be happy to give you lots of references in various American states -not to mention a few countries-where the real " democratic" ideals-ie money, power, ego and greed are so skillfully practiced on dumb and gullible populace. How naive can you get, really. As I keep telling you, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You Brits may not believe it, being bored as you are, but you have a good thing going. Boredom is a dangerous thing, very dangerous. So is security. Europe basically commited suicide in August 1914 after a century of more or less peaced with vast increase in both material prosperity and misery. totally stupid. Then there is that famous passage in Thucydides in which he describes the real reasons for the Peloponnesian Wars, namely all those testosterone besotted young men in Athens thought war and a good fight were so glorious, having never been in a war before. And a supreme achievement of the human mind went down in blood, gore, plague, agony and ruin. So be careful, you may get what you wish for.

BeatrixFan 12-14-2007 05:01 PM

Thomas,

For every bad politician, there are two good ones. For every republic which doesn't work, there are two that do. I do resent the implication that I've no brain, I'm naive and that I need to get real but thankyou for your comments all the same.

Thomas Parkman 12-18-2007 09:34 PM

Dear BeatrixFan,

I who am a Fan of BeatrixFan must grovel in abject groveling scraping the knees in prostrations, bruising the nose black and blue, ruining the knees of my trousers-I have only a few pairs of decent trousers, at this rate I shall have to go around in rags- scraping the buttons off my coat and doing 108,000 prostrations in correction for slight misstatements made in the heat of passion and sheer horror. You see when I eat chocolate ice cream it is a kind of passion potion. It causes everything to sort of start working again and I just do not know how to deal with it.

Of course you have a brain, and enough and more than enough but then even the most brilliant of geniuses can have these little, ugh shall we say slight imperfections that add to your charm. After all in real gems of real quality, a few inclusions, ie imperfections are necessary. Then there are those grim disagreements on the basis of something so squalid as politics that always seem to get, well, grim.

Then there is the Queen _BEATRIX FAN HOW COULD YOU- and all those jewels and all that pomp and colour and circumstance- Dish the Queen. Sniff. I am just stunned, amazed and appalled. But with lower lip quivering I shall endure.

The point being of course not that this or that republic does or does not whatever but the monarchy in Britain does quite well actually. As I keep saying if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Cheers.

Elspeth 12-18-2007 09:57 PM

Thomas, I think Sam's argument is that the young royals are well on the way to breaking it.

Thomas Parkman 12-20-2007 04:08 PM

And what, pray, is precisely so awful about these people. Are they charged with political or constitutional responsibilities which they have abused or neglected. How and who are breaking what. Pray explain. I am on the other side of the Atlantic where we have our own (and real) nightmares.

BeatrixFan 12-20-2007 04:11 PM

Well, whats awful about them is that they're the future senior royals and they're acting like a bunch of pissheads at an Elaine Stritch Gin Meet. Now, when I do that, it's ok. I'm not going to be King one day. When William does it, it equates him to me and would you want me as a monarch? See my point?

Thomas Parkman 12-21-2007 03:51 PM

Pardon my French but I have not a clue as to what an Elaine Stritch Gin Meet is apart from the fact that William may or may not drink too much. A very common problem or situation. Or he may be going through a stage. People change, develop, get better, get worse or what have you. As one of my dear philosophy professors once remarked "As you get older, you don't get wiser, you just get weaker." Perhaps it is that weakness that is the beginning of wisdom.

As for the idea of BeatrixFan as King, frankly if you were in the line to the succession I would be delighted. We would have to find you a proper royal name. Richard IV perhaps??? John II??? George VII-very nice. James IX??? (Yes, I know but according to royal decree if a king has the same name as the Scottish and English kings, the higher number prevails). Let us see: ah yes, I have it: Malcolm III. Very nice.

And if you drink gin, well, you drink gin. I would remind you that even the mighty Winston himself boasted that he had drunk enough to sink a battleship. I myself am fond of gin and tonic. But my limit is one. You see I get these awful headaches. As I say it is how you conduct your official duties and carry out your responsibilities. I would note that Carl XVI Gustav was a playboy and then he married Sylvia and today is a much beloved and respected figure.

Frankly I think somebody should have taken a belt to both William and Henry a long time ago. But alfter all the pecadillos among the various politicians of the world, American and otherwise (please, please pardon my Americanestique myopia) a fondness of alcolhol and the inevitable foolish behaviour are small change in my book. I agree it can be distasteful, to err is human, forgive divine.

Some senior statesmen or members of the royal family need to sit down with young William and Harry, especially Harry, and read them the riot act. Of course as with many young men, there is the phenomenon of delayed adolescence. And teenage boys, myself included at that age, were and are stupid. Dumb as dirt. And do not have any sense and will not listen to anybody. As the Ancient Egyptians have said: A boys ears are on his backside, the only way you can get him to hear is to beat him.

No doubt this missive will horrify one and all, But I still say God save the Queen. Cheeers.

Attaining Grace 04-13-2008 05:53 AM

I think that William and Harry will probably settle down now. I agree with you, Thomas - why not have a good time when you're young? It doesn't look good, but William seems to be coming to his senses.

I think that Australia should remain a monarchy as well - why change a good thing?

Madame Royale 04-13-2008 06:08 AM

Quote:

why change a good thing?
We know no different, so who is to say a political transition wouldn't be just as effective? The fact remains, we have nothing to judge the alternative by.

I was a monarchist, and I still am favourable to the institution in many regards, though I do see a need to re establish where it is the nation feels we are, and where we should be headed on the matter...:smile:

Thomas Parkman 04-13-2008 03:27 PM

Oh, but my dear Madame Royale, as much as I esteem your most noble person I must disagree. I would refer you to the long list of countries that have tossed out, shot, burned, hanged, beheaded, drawn and quartered, chopped to pieces, poisoned, garrotted and otherwise "sent into the Great Void" a long list of most royal personages. I will not discuss what they did to poor Edward II, I think it was. But even that was a result not of his private, hopefully he did not DO IT in public, as much as his lack of political acumen, an all too common failing in elected much less hereditary politicians. In the overwhelming majority of cases things did not get better, but au contraire, got much, and in many cases much, much worse indeed downright horrible.
So yes you do have any number of alternatives to judge by. None of them very good. Here even in the most rabid of republics I suspect that there are more than a few, looking up the political ruin that this country now is, who might begin to think that the grand and glorious Revolution may have been a mistake. I am most certainly among them. Cheers.

PS And I always thought Australia, apart from the crocodiles, poisonous snakes and various insects and sea life, was and is a lovely place with wonderful people.

PrinceOfCanada 04-13-2008 04:11 PM

Quote:

And if you drink gin, well, you drink gin.
The Queen Mum was well known for her fondness for gin. HM also enjoys a tipple--gin & Dubonnet is her cocktail of choice.

The best thing ever said on the subject of gin and the Queen Mum was many years ago on visit to Canada. She was with some lieutenant, and was served tea. He (being somewhat nervous) said something along the lines of "Tea? Oh, I'd thought you had a reputation for preferring gin."

"Really?" she replied, "I wasn't aware that I had such a reputation. But seeing as I do, make it a large one."

Royals have always caroused. Even HM slipped out of the Palace to party in the streets all night when the Allies won WWII. William will grow up.. besides, it's not like he's going to be sitting on the throne before he's at least what, 60?

Madame Royale 04-14-2008 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Parkman (Post 753143)
Oh, but my dear Madame Royale, as much as I esteem your most noble person I must disagree. I would refer you to the long list of countries that have tossed out, shot, burned, hanged, beheaded, drawn and quartered, chopped to pieces, poisoned, garrotted and otherwise "sent into the Great Void" a long list of most royal personages. I will not discuss what they did to poor Edward II, I think it was. But even that was a result not of his private, hopefully he did not DO IT in public, as much as his lack of political acumen, an all too common failing in elected much less hereditary politicians. In the overwhelming majority of cases things did not get better, but au contraire, got much, and in many cases much, much worse indeed downright horrible.
So yes you do have any number of alternatives to judge by. None of them very good. Here even in the most rabid of republics I suspect that there are more than a few, looking up the political ruin that this country now is, who might begin to think that the grand and glorious Revolution may have been a mistake. I am most certainly among them. Cheers.

PS And I always thought Australia, apart from the crocodiles, poisonous snakes and various insects and sea life, was and is a lovely place with wonderful people.

Have you been to Australia, Mr Parkman?

You're flattery amuses me, though I must disagree. We, Australian's, have no alternative comparison because we have not made the transition, nor should we look to any other institution, risen or failed, for inspiration or hindrance in whatever decision lay ahead.

Are you certain you're not insinuating, that underneath lies a barbaric social disorder, because surely that would then compromise you're perception of this lovely place and her wonderful inhabitants. We are not a revolutionary people, so I hardly think a bloodshed insurrection or regicide is something we would ever care to partake in..hehe.

As always, a pleasure Thomas.

To BeatrixFan. Well done on an entertaining read.

KingJosh 04-14-2008 09:59 PM

Great Article.


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